David Backes appreciation thread

[BrokenFace]

Great send-off last night. Backes did a lot to push this organization forward. If we didn't draft that guy, we don't have a cup.

 

[Brian39]

The term "deserved a Cup" is a tough one, because hockey is a sport where 1 guy just can't get you there on his own. No hockey player can consistently impact a game like they can in the NBA or a QB in the NFL. The closest thing is a hot goalie, but even Hasek couldn't drag Buffalo to a Cup (although he got damn close). So what does it mean to say a player "deserved" a Stanley Cup?

Let's consider the makeup of Cup winners. It is exceptionally rare for a team to win the Cup without a high-mid 1st round pick in their top 6 center group. The Caps, Pens, Kings, Hawks and Canes all had a 1C drafted in the top 11 picks overall. Getzlaf for the Ducks was 19 overall and our 2C was 4th overall. That leaves us with Boston, Detroit and Tampa as the only teams in the cap era to win a Cup without a top 6 center drafted in the top 20 picks of the NHL draft (I'm excluding Stamkos since he was not playing as a top 6 C for Tampa's Cup run).

The Krejci/Bergeron center tandem for the Bruins is the closest to the Backes/Stastny tandem we ran for a few years that was Backes' best 2C situation in his prime. I believe that the rest of Boston's lineup is better than anything we ran out with Backes, especially when you consider the superhuman playoffs Tim Thomas had.

Brayden Point was drafted in the 3rd round. Point is amazing, but let's be real about Tampa. That roster is miles better than any roster the Blues ever put around Backes. They have an undisputed top 3 D man, an undisputed top 3 goalie and an undisputed top 5 winger in the game. Swap prime Backes for Point from 2017 to last season and I have zero doubt they win a Cup in that stretch.

Datsyuk is a freak of nature hall of famer drafted in the 6th round. And that 2008 Wings team was miles better than any roster we put around Backes. Having the 2nd best D man in the history of the game is how you build a dynasty. Lidstrom and Zetterberg were better than any Blues teammate Backes ever had and the supporting cast of Franzen, Rafalski, Kronwall, Holmstrom, Hudler, Filpulla and Cleary is deeper than any team we ever had around Backes. They also had some dudes named Osgood and Hasek in net. I'm no Ozzie truther, but his .930 was a better goalie performance than Backes ever got.

Every Cup winner without a top 20 draft pick in their top 6 center tandem used the asset capital saved on that group to build a better supporting cast around them than Backes ever had. Does that mean that Backes deserved a Cup? Again, that depends on what you mean by "deserved." But I can confidently answer this hypothetical. Imagine an 18 year old is drafted at 62nd overall and asks his new team "what do you need me to become for this organization to have a legitimate chance of winning the Cup with me in the top 6?" David Backes is a correct answer to that question.

Backes was a top 10 shut down center in the league for at least 5 years. From 2010/11 to 2015/16, he is one of only 15 centers to hit the 300 point mark. He was a +77 in that stretch (14th) and his 1,336 hits were 5th in the league. He greatly exceeded reasonable expectations for a late-2nd round pick and was absolutely good enough to be a top 6 center on a Cup winner if the team constructs a good enough roster around him. Any team that tells a 62nd overall pick that he needs to be better than David Backes for them to win a Cup with him as a top 6 C is an unrealistic organization.

David Backes became a player more than good enough to win a Cup based on the draft capital used to acquire him and the salary being paid to him through his prime ($4.5M AAV or 7.58% of the cap when he signed in 2010). $4.5M in 2010 is the equivalent to $6.18M against today's cap. $4.5M was 6.3% of the cap in the last year of his deal, which is the equivalent to $5.13M against today's cap. A player as good as Backes on that deal that came in to your organization from a late 2nd round pick is absolutely a good enough player to put in your top 6 and build a winner around.

TL;DR: "deserved" is a tough word in sports. But it is undeniable that the player David Backes did everything an organization could have reasonably asked of him to win a Cup. He was good enough to win a Cup as a top 6 center and good enough to win a Cup given the resources the Blues allocated to get him into that role. The failure to win a Cup was one of roster construction and not a deficiency of Backes.

 

[JoshFromMO]

The term "deserved a Cup" is a tough one, because hockey is a sport where 1 guy just can't get you there on his own. No hockey player can consistently impact a game like they can in the NBA or a QB in the NFL. The closest thing is a hot goalie, but even Hasek couldn't drag Buffalo to a Cup (although he got damn close). So what does it mean to say a player "deserved" a Stanley Cup?

Let's consider the makeup of Cup winners. It is exceptionally rare for a team to win the Cup without a high-mid 1st round pick in their top 6 center group. The Caps, Pens, Kings, Hawks and Canes all had a 1C drafted in the top 11 picks overall. Getzlaf for the Ducks was 19 overall and our 2C was 4th overall. That leaves us with Boston, Detroit and Tampa as the only teams in the cap era to win a Cup without a top 6 center drafted in the top 20 picks of the NHL draft (I'm excluding Stamkos since he was not playing as a top 6 C for Tampa's Cup run).

The Krejci/Bergeron center tandem for the Bruins is the closest to the Backes/Stastny tandem we ran for a few years that was Backes' best 2C situation in his prime. I believe that the rest of Boston's lineup is better than anything we ran out with Backes, especially when you consider the superhuman playoffs Tim Thomas had.

Brayden Point was drafted in the 3rd round. Point is amazing, but let's be real about Tampa. That roster is miles better than any roster the Blues ever put around Backes. They have an undisputed top 3 D man, an undisputed top 3 goalie and an undisputed top 5 winger in the game. Swap prime Backes for Point from 2017 to last season and I have zero doubt they win a Cup in that stretch.

Datsyuk is a freak of nature hall of famer drafted in the 6th round. And that 2008 Wings team was miles better than any roster we put around Backes. Having the 2nd best D man in the history of the game is how you build a dynasty. Lidstrom and Zetterberg were better than any Blues teammate Backes ever had and the supporting cast of Franzen, Rafalski, Kronwall, Holmstrom, Hudler, Filpulla and Cleary is deeper than any team we ever had around Backes. They also had some dudes named Osgood and Hasek in net. I'm no Ozzie truther, but his .930 was a better goalie performance than Backes ever got.

Every Cup winner without a top 20 draft pick in their top 6 center tandem used the asset capital saved on that group to build a better supporting cast around them than Backes ever had. Does that mean that Backes deserved a Cup? Again, that depends on what you mean by "deserved." But I can confidently answer this hypothetical. Imagine an 18 year old is drafted at 62nd overall and asks his new team "what do you need me to become for this organization to have a legitimate chance of winning the Cup with me in the top 6?" David Backes is a correct answer to that question.

Backes was a top 10 shut down center in the league for at least 5 years. From 2010/11 to 2015/16, he is one of only 15 centers to hit the 300 point mark. He was a +77 in that stretch (14th) and his 1,336 hits were 5th in the league. He greatly exceeded reasonable expectations for a late-2nd round pick and was absolutely good enough to be a top 6 center on a Cup winner if the team constructs a good enough roster around him. Any team that tells a 62nd overall pick that he needs to be better than David Backes for them to win a Cup with him as a top 6 C is an unrealistic organization.

David Backes became a player more than good enough to win a Cup based on the draft capital used to acquire him and the salary being paid to him through his prime ($4.5M AAV or 7.58% of the cap when he signed in 2010). $4.5M in 2010 is the equivalent to $6.18M against today's cap. $4.5M was 6.3% of the cap in the last year of his deal, which is the equivalent to $5.13M against today's cap. A player as good as Backes on that deal that came in to your organization from a late 2nd round pick is absolutely a good enough player to put in your top 6 and build a winner around.

TL;DR: "deserved" is a tough word in sports. But it is undeniable that the player David Backes did everything an organization could have reasonably asked of him to win a Cup. He was good enough to win a Cup as a top 6 center and good enough to win a Cup given the resources the Blues allocated to get him into that role. The failure to win a Cup was one of roster construction and not a deficiency of Backes.

Maybe it's because I'm still in the feels from the end of last night's game but I don't think there is a better write up on David Backes and what he provided for St. Louis than this post

 

[TheDizee]

he didnt get a cup here because of goaltending, simple as that

 

[BadgersandBlues]

I'm really proud of what we did for him last night. That was really classy of the whole organization. Might not get a ton of national press, but players remember that kind of stuff.

 

[Davimir Tarablad]

he didnt get a cup here because of goaltending, simple as that

In his 5 years as captain, the Blues only averaged more than 2.33 GF/g in the playoffs once, and that was in 15-16 when they averaged 2.85GF/g. Except they got shutout twice in the 6 game series against the Sharks. All those teams lacked enough talent on offense to get it done when it really mattered.

 

[TheDizee]

In his 5 years as captain, the Blues only averaged more than 2.33 GF/g in the playoffs once, and that was in 15-16 when they averaged 2.85GF/g. Except they got shutout twice in the 6 game series against the Sharks. All those teams lacked enough talent on offense to get it done when it really mattered.

yeah ppl like Oshie who choked nonstop were also a problem. but our goaltenders letting in soft cheese was always the main culprit

 

[Louie the Blue]

yeah ppl like Oshie who choked nonstop were also a problem. but our goaltenders letting in soft cheese was always the main culprit

Goaltending never was the main issue in any of the series, though.

Goaltending was never the main issue, though. They ran into a dynasty and the Kings in 3 seasons. The only real one where I’d argue they had no excuse was Minnesota.

 

[TheDizee]

Goaltending never was the main issue in any of the series, though.

Goaltending was never the main issue, though. They ran into a dynasty and the Kings in 3 seasons. The only real one where I’d argue they had no excuse was Minnesota.

sorry when you blow 2-0 leads, there are reasons for that happening and it was ALWAYS soft goaltending mixed with a mentally soft team that folded.

go watch the game 3 hawks-blues series they lost. miller's stats look good till you realize the 1 goal he allowed was a absolute dog shit softy. then his stats the rest of the series speak for itself. same thing goes for allen in 2015, elliott always was a headcase here too.