Confirmed with Link: Dave Tippett signs 5-year contract extension

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XX

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Spin? We were 3rd worst last year. 7th worst this year. Whoopdeedoo!

Boedker and Hanzal healthy, Domi and Duclair playing well. It was a swing of four better forwards minus Yandle. I sure as **** hope they wouldn't be bottom five under such circumstances.
 

CC96

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Boedker and Hanzal healthy, Domi and Duclair playing well. It was a swing of four better forwards minus Yandle. I sure as **** hope they wouldn't be bottom five under such circumstances.

Having a healthy Boedker and Hanzal was a huge part of the sacred 20 point improvement. Having them healthy was probably worth another 5 wins, easy.

Not to mention Smith getting crippled was a huge reason we won extra games this year too. There's no way Smith or Lindback could have pulled some the victories Domingue did, during his explosive start to his career. Not to mention, had Smith and Lindback been healthy, there's zero chance Tippett would have given Domingue any starts.
 

cobra427

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Having a healthy Boedker and Hanzal was a huge part of the sacred 20 point improvement. Having them healthy was probably worth another 5 wins, easy.

Not to mention Smith getting crippled was a huge reason we won extra games this year too. There's no way Smith or Lindback could have pulled some the victories Domingue did, during his explosive start to his career. Not to mention, had Smith and Lindback been healthy, there's zero chance Tippett would have given Domingue any starts.

One could say Bods on the point and our short handed goals against cost us a few games too along with his disappearance 6 weeks before the TDL. Lindback was DM's signing and he was replaced by LD when he played poorly before he was out for the season. You could blame DM for that signing and not picking up a vet back up when LD was tired. You can't say Smith being hurt definitely helped us.

We can look at it half full or half empty. The bottom line is, at the start of the year, we weren't predicted to improve by 20+ points. Obviously some players have to have good years for that to happen but most would think, all things considered, is that the improvement is partly because of the coach not in spite of the coach.
 

Jakey53

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One could say Bods on the point and our short handed goals against cost us a few games too along with his disappearance 6 weeks before the TDL. Lindback was DM's signing and he was replaced by LD when he played poorly before he was out for the season. You could blame DM for that signing and not picking up a vet back up when LD was tired. You can't say Smith being hurt definitely helped us.

We can look at it half full or half empty. The bottom line is, at the start of the year, we weren't predicted to improve by 20+ points. Obviously some players have to have good years for that to happen but most would think, all things considered, is that the improvement is partly because of the coach not in spite of the coach.

I agree. No use trying to explain, your just wasting your time. Some can't see the forest for the trees. There is a reason DT is well respected around the league and would be well sought out if fired.
 

The Feckless Puck

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We can look at it half full or half empty. The bottom line is, at the start of the year, we weren't predicted to improve by 20+ points. Obviously some players have to have good years for that to happen but most would think, all things considered, is that the improvement is partly because of the coach not in spite of the coach.

Why does it have to be either/or? Can't it be "regardless of the coach"? I mean, we all know that there's a coaching staff and that improvements or regressions might get caused by some of those guys to whom Tippett outsources, right?

It's kinda useless to use the 20 point improvement as a baseball bat to mash other people's heads in about the coach - we can spin it just as logically that we improved 20+ points because we no longer had Yandle playing defense. :laugh:

Anyway, if we're getting on the "blame train" here, I'd get the pitchforks out for Playfair way before I would for Tippett. And I'd give Newell Brown credit for any offensive gains our team made before I'd credit Tippett.
 

Guest

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So who exactly in the organization knows how to develop prospects?

The coach that doesn't believe the NHL is a development league? No.
The GM, who has 1 year of pro-hockey management experience? No.
The AGM? Oh wait, we don't have one.

I wonder if the concept will be to put all of the kids in the minors, recall them when you need to fill in for an injury, and if they impress on recall then they might have a fighting chance at the next camp to make the team. I'm not against overcooking prospects. Although the injection of youth was great last season, if they had overcooked in the minors they may have been able to create more of a winning culture at the AHL level and the NHL team would have likely been even worse which would have provided a better draft pick. That's not a bad way to rebuild.
 

cobra427

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Why does it have to be either/or? Can't it be "regardless of the coach"? I mean, we all know that there's a coaching staff and that improvements or regressions might get caused by some of those guys to whom Tippett outsources, right?

It's kinda useless to use the 20 point improvement as a baseball bat to mash other people's heads in about the coach - we can spin it just as logically that we improved 20+ points because we no longer had Yandle playing defense. :laugh:

Anyway, if we're getting on the "blame train" here, I'd get the pitchforks out for Playfair way before I would for Tippett. And I'd give Newell Brown credit for any offensive gains our team made before I'd credit Tippett.

My point is that any NHL team that improves by 20 points last year, or improves by 20 points next year, is not going to fire their coach. Pick any team next year that improves by 20 points, do you think they fire their coach? I don't. It is true that the 56 point season had plenty to do with injuries, so the bar is artificially low. But even still, the team was ahead of expectations, even among it's own fan base. If Toronto is 20 points better next year do you think Babcock gets shot? I don't.

It would be crazy to fire Tip. DM on the other hand, we don't know what was going on behind the scenes or his management style, so it is harder to quantify his performance.
 

zz

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Forget about the good / bad coach debate. We've been terrible for 4 straight years and ownership decided the best way to improve is to keep the same coach for the next 6 years. I'm having a difficult time understanding the logic behind it. Why extend his contract this early?
 

The Feckless Puck

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My point is that any NHL team that improves by 20 points last year, or improves by 20 points next year, is not going to fire their coach. Pick any team next year that improves by 20 points, do you think they fire their coach? I don't. It is true that the 56 point season had plenty to do with injuries, so the bar is artificially low. But even still, the team was ahead of expectations, even among it's own fan base. If Toronto is 20 points better next year do you think Babcock gets shot? I don't.

That makes sense in the short view, but from an overall perspective the team has missed the playoffs and hasn't been a serious threat to make it since 2012. The debate will rage on about whether it was Don Maloney's rosters or Tippett's coaching that was to blame (mostly because both of them were playoff-caliber before IA took over the team, but that's a whole different thread :D), but the bottom line is that in the NHL (and most other leagues), you end up firing people if that much sustained mediocrity plagues your franchise.

Keep in mind, too, that 20 points is a significant improvement, but in context it's not that big of an achievement considering how awful the previous season was. We are still picking 7th in the draft out of 30 teams.

A reasonable debate can be raised about which of the two - GM or coach - is more responsible and which one should have been fired first. But frankly I find it astounding that one of them got fired and the other got a five-year extension and the keys to the roster. In a normal situation, the one who didn't get fired would get a year or so to put proof to the idea that it was the other guy who was responsible for the underperformance - but in our case, we not only gave out a long-term extension, we are paying him more than Cup-winning coaches are making on other teams.

It doesn't matter to me whether you think Tippett is good or bad, because I don't make value judgments on people for what they believe, but you've got to admit that there is something headscratching about the rationale behind what has happened.
 

cobra427

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That makes sense in the short view, but from an overall perspective the team has missed the playoffs and hasn't been a serious threat to make it since 2012. The debate will rage on about whether it was Don Maloney's rosters or Tippett's coaching that was to blame (mostly because both of them were playoff-caliber before IA took over the team, but that's a whole different thread :D), but the bottom line is that in the NHL (and most other leagues), you end up firing people if that much sustained mediocrity plagues your franchise.

Keep in mind, too, that 20 points is a significant improvement, but in context it's not that big of an achievement considering how awful the previous season was. We are still picking 7th in the draft out of 30 teams.

A reasonable debate can be raised about which of the two - GM or coach - is more responsible and which one should have been fired first. But frankly I find it astounding that one of them got fired and the other got a five-year extension and the keys to the roster. In a normal situation, the one who didn't get fired would get a year or so to put proof to the idea that it was the other guy who was responsible for the underperformance - but in our case, we not only gave out a long-term extension, we are paying him more than Cup-winning coaches are making on other teams.

It doesn't matter to me whether you think Tippett is good or bad, because I don't make value judgments on people for what they believe, but you've got to admit that there is something headscratching about the rationale behind what has happened.

I could see Tip getting shot after the 56 point season if they felt a change was needed or they had seen enough. That would have been 3 years of not in the playoffs. After the bounce back year this year, ownership was likely convinced Tip was their guy long term. It was a nice turn around. I can see this being part of the reason for the extension, Tip had a prove it year this year, as you had mentioned.

I wouldn't have predicted DM being shot or a long extension for Tip, so yes that is head scratching. Maybe the ownership took a hard look at how DM has performed. True that he picked up Domi/Duclair/Reider, but he also hung on to Gormley/Runblad too long. His UFA pick ups of Downey/Scott didn't work, and Grossman was just ok. Smith/Ribs were bad moves too. Add to that Tip having little input along the way the last few years. DM also could not sign Bods and did not get much for him in a trade.

Maybe DM could have landed Hamilton, traded Bods earlier for more value, or signed a vet back up when Smith/Lindback were hurt. Maybe DM didn't want to, or was holding out for a better deal in these 3 scenarios. There could have been differing opinions within the organization on all these issues and DM said, my way or the highway. We don't know what was going on behind the scenes, so his firing, while perplexing, is hard to judge.

This is all part of running a business and as they say, you don't throw the baby out with the bath water. You have to take a deeper look and determine who to keep and who to let go. I have also not heard one rumor of DM interviewing for a front office position. If Tip were fired, every team in the NHL that just shot a coach would be talking to him, along with a few others that would shoot their coach if they could upgrade to Tip. I guess time will tell if DM holds high value around the NHL, and I know few jobs are open at this time. I do like DM and hope he lands on his feet.
 

The Feckless Puck

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Maybe the ownership took a hard look at how DM has performed. True that he picked up Domi/Duclair/Reider, but he also hung on to Gormley/Runblad too long. His UFA pick ups of Downey/Scott didn't work, and Grossman was just ok. Smith/Ribs were bad moves too. Add to that Tip having little input along the way the last few years. DM also could not sign Bods and did not get much for him in a trade.

It's water under the bridge at this point, but I do think some context needs to be added to the paragraph above. I agree we hung onto Gormley too long, but Rundblad? DM dropped him like a hot rock at the first opportunity - it was a gamble in the first place but when it didn't pan out (and when Tippett stopped playing him) he hit the skids with alacrity. Downie/Scott were miscalculations, yes - but he had young players and wanted some grit to back them up. Downie had grit and a history of a scoring touch, neither of which surfaced as a Coyote. Scott... well, that one is hard to justify. DM did have a history of signing, then getting rid of, tough guys, so that's a mark against him. Smith, Ribs, and Grossmann were all Tippett guys, so there's no way I put that fully on DM. And Boedker, well... if there's anything DM did completely right as a GM, I think it was his handling of Boedker.

Anyway, Maloney will get back in the game at some point. Probably not immediately, though. After he got sacked in New York, he took some time off then too. I think he was a better GM here than he was in the Big Apple.

As for Tippett, well... we'll see how his influence pans out this summer. Just be glad Marty Turco is retired. :laugh:
 

WrinkledPossum

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That makes sense in the short view, but from an overall perspective the team has missed the playoffs and hasn't been a serious threat to make it since 2012. The debate will rage on about whether it was Don Maloney's rosters or Tippett's coaching that was to blame (mostly because both of them were playoff-caliber before IA took over the team, but that's a whole different thread :D), but the bottom line is that in the NHL (and most other leagues), you end up firing people if that much sustained mediocrity plagues your franchise.

It isn't just Maloney vs Tippett as to why the team didn't make the playoffs after 2012. The team was going through ownership issues those years and was(still is) one of the lowest spending teams in the league. Those 3 years of playoff teams were rather flukey. The rosters were bad because of the situation DM was given.

I feel like people forget the situation the Coyotes are in compared to other teams. The team doesn't have the ability to go and sign top FAs. And up until recent there was no young talent coming in. The team was barely making it off of luck for that 3 year playoff stretch. Go back and look at those rosters, they're bad. Once again not DMs fault. It's a tough situation to work in and he brought guys in, although not that good, fit in Tipps system.

The years coming are gonna be the first in a long time where the team is operating like a normal NHL team, with stable ownership (fingers crossed), more money to spend, and with a solid prospect core to build off of.
 

Jakey53

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That makes sense in the short view, but from an overall perspective the team has missed the playoffs and hasn't been a serious threat to make it since 2012. The debate will rage on about whether it was Don Maloney's rosters or Tippett's coaching that was to blame (mostly because both of them were playoff-caliber before IA took over the team, but that's a whole different thread :D), but the bottom line is that in the NHL (and most other leagues), you end up firing people if that much sustained mediocrity plagues your franchise.

Keep in mind, too, that 20 points is a significant improvement, but in context it's not that big of an achievement considering how awful the previous season was. We are still picking 7th in the draft out of 30 teams.

A reasonable debate can be raised about which of the two - GM or coach - is more responsible and which one should have been fired first. But frankly I find it astounding that one of them got fired and the other got a five-year extension and the keys to the roster. In a normal situation, the one who didn't get fired would get a year or so to put proof to the idea that it was the other guy who was responsible for the underperformance - but in our case, we not only gave out a long-term extension, we are paying him more than Cup-winning coaches are making on other teams.

It doesn't matter to me whether you think Tippett is good or bad, because I don't make value judgments on people for what they believe, but you've got to admit that there is something headscratching about the rationale behind what has happened.

For a rebuilding team, improvement is more than points. It has a lot do with development of the kids and how they progressed during the year, and you can include bringing up some of the kids during the year to get a look see.

I think $4 mill/yr. for any coach is too much, and that includes Babcock and Q. I think we overpaid by about a $1 mill/yr.
 

Jakey53

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It isn't just Maloney vs Tippett as to why the team didn't make the playoffs after 2012. The team was going through ownership issues those years and was(still is) one of the lowest spending teams in the league. Those 3 years of playoff teams were rather flukey. The rosters were bad because of the situation DM was given.

I feel like people forget the situation the Coyotes are in compared to other teams. The team doesn't have the ability to go and sign top FAs. And up until recent there was no young talent coming in. The team was barely making it off of luck for that 3 year playoff stretch. Go back and look at those rosters, they're bad. Once again not DMs fault. It's a tough situation to work in and he brought guys in, although not that good, fit in Tipps system.

The years coming are gonna be the first in a long time where the team is operating like a normal NHL team, with stable ownership (fingers crossed), more money to spend, and with a solid prospect core to build off of.

Yes, you understand!:nod: Unfortunately your wasting your time. :) I have been trying to explain that for the last year. I thought DM and DT have done an outstanding job for the last number of years. I thought they both deserved three years into this rebuild to see what they could have done.
 

The Feckless Puck

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11. Good offseason for coaches and we haven’t hit June.

Tippett is believed to be at $4M per season, although his job has added personnel responsibilities. The Kings’ Darryl Sutter is in the threes. Bruce Boudreau came in at $2.75M. And Ken Hitchcock’s contract is up, too.

There were rumours Tippett might not coach for his entire five-year extension, instead paving the way at some point for Jim Playfair. But Tippett said there are no plans to leave the bench.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/30-thoughts-panthers-chart-bold-new-direction/

Aw, hell. Give me a 15-year Tippett extension any day over Jim effing Playfair as head coach. What about Newell Brown??
 

Ebb

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http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/30-thoughts-panthers-chart-bold-new-direction/

Aw, hell. Give me a 15-year Tippett extension any day over Jim effing Playfair as head coach. What about Newell Brown??

What about someone totally different with a fresh and unique approach to the game? Brown is probably a decent option, but an "outsider" might be nice for a change if Tipp plans to hang up his coaching skates early. Of course, I'm guessing he'll keep the Executive VP title/position.
 

Matias Maccete

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http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/30-thoughts-panthers-chart-bold-new-direction/

Aw, hell. Give me a 15-year Tippett extension any day over Jim effing Playfair as head coach. What about Newell Brown??

Playfair, yikes. Have we heard for sure if he controls everything about the dmen? I hate how we prioritize shot blocking over tying up and moving players in front, and think along with our odd switches in defensive zone coverage between wingers and dmen, those are the two biggest problems defensively. Hopefully playfair doesn't control that.
 

cobra427

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Playfair, yikes. Have we heard for sure if he controls everything about the dmen? I hate how we prioritize shot blocking over tying up and moving players in front, and think along with our odd switches in defensive zone coverage between wingers and dmen, those are the two biggest problems defensively. Hopefully playfair doesn't control that.

I am mixed on Playfair. Part of me thinks we have not had much D improvement, part of me thinks it takes a long time to develop D, and part of me thinks we just lack talent on D. We have a 1LHD, 2 second pairing RHD's in Stone/Murphy, and plenty of 5-8 D's. We are missing a 1RHD, and a 2LHD. Murphy might develop into a 1RHD. The lack of development could be partly Playfair's fault, but we also traded Yandle, and had 2 major busts in Runblad/Murphy, with no replacements so far. They busted in Chicago/Colorado too, so they aren't on Playfair/Tip, just didn't work out. Hard to tell if Playfair is part of the solution or part of the problem. Our PP was great when Yandle was here, Brown was getting the credit. Without Yandle, not so good, but I think Brown is a good coach still.
 

GiveAFlyingPuck

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I am mixed on Playfair. Part of me thinks we have not had much D improvement, part of me thinks it takes a long time to develop D, and part of me thinks we just lack talent on D. We have a 1LHD, 2 second pairing RHD's in Stone/Murphy, and plenty of 5-8 D's. We are missing a 1RHD, and a 2LHD. Murphy might develop into a 1RHD. The lack of development could be partly Playfair's fault, but we also traded Yandle, and had 2 major busts in Runblad/Murphy, with no replacements so far. They busted in Chicago/Colorado too, so they aren't on Playfair/Tip, just didn't work out. Hard to tell if Playfair is part of the solution or part of the problem. Our PP was great when Yandle was here, Brown was getting the credit. Without Yandle, not so good, but I think Brown is a good coach still.

You mean Gormley, right?
 

XX

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SniperHF

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Doan likes everybody. He was even complimentary toward Kyle Turris those 2-3 days he filled in on NHL Network.
 
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