Dave Hakstol Part V

[Striiker]

I blame Giroux.

If he wasn't so f***ing good Hakstol would be gone by now.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Of course fans aren’t going to claim Q runs a college system considering he didn’t coach college. I said I’m sure fans will claim Q’s system is outdated. Either way, it’s fans claiming the coach’s system isn’t fit for today’s game.

From the Hawks’ board:

“We are way overdue for a new voice & system.”

“Colliton’s teams play w/ energy, that will be the biggest & most noticeable difference. Both last year & this year it took about 2 weeks for his system to be exposed.”

“Q was Q. He never changed...he kept playing his favorites rather than the best team. It’s ironic that in his last game he had both Kunitz & Martinsen play. Lmao.”

“JC has a modern grasp of the game...This is an upgrade.”

“Another source on Colliton: ‘much more ‘modern’.”

“People will be happy with how JC’s team plays going forward. Rockford is a treat to watch. They forecheck hard & play physical hockey. A much more aggressive style that fits this roster.”

Ah, ok. So he doesn't run a college system that isn't fit for the NHL.


An outdated system is still an upgrade over Hakstol's. Hakstol isn't an NHL caliber coach as long as he's pushing his current idiotic system.

 

[Striiker]

I mean, I made it clear why I'd be wary of Q, but there's no debate he'd be an upgrade over Hakstol.

 

[Beef Invictus]

This should be anyone's last straw moment for Hextall. You can't skip by two available cup winning coaches in less than a year to keep the trainwrecks you have unless you truly are an insane egomaniacal ****bag fiddling while your team burns.

Fiddle? This f***er is bagpiping.

 

[Striiker]

Maybe Hextall has already decided on his next hire (Knob?) and is just waiting for the right time (in his opinion) for the switch.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Maybe Hextall has already decided on his next hire (Knob?) and is just waiting for the right time (in his opinion) for the switch.

That doesn't make me feel any better because the right time was last April.

Every day that goes by is a waste.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Ah, ok. So he doesn't run a college system that isn't fit for the NHL.


An outdated system is still an upgrade over Hakstol's. Hakstol isn't an NHL caliber coach as long as he's pushing his current idiotic system.

A) What’s a “college system” even mean? Plenty of pro teams have used similar systems. It’s just gobbledygook you’re using because you don’t like his system & he coached in college.

B) The complaints about Q are the same complaints about Hak: System not fit for modern hockey; not aggressive enough; doesn’t adapt; plays veteran favorites; team doesn’t play with enough energy; special teams terrible. So why is everyone clamoring for him? Shouldn’t you want a more “modern” coach instead with a more attacking style????

C) Fans always complain about the same things. Meet the new boss; same as the old boss.

 

[tucson83]

That doesn't make me feel any better because the right time was last April.

Every day that goes by is a waste.

wasting talent i might add and hurting young players development, if hextall cares about it at all.

 

[Curufinwe]

Been saying that for a while now. It really is pathetic.

EDIT: Let's say by some miracle the Flyers win a playoff round this year. The second longest tenured coach in Flyers history's crowning achievement is winning a playoff round.

Let that sink in.

What the **** happened to this organization?

Isn't this the same organization that missed the playoffs entirely five years in a row back when about 75% of NHL teams made the playoffs?

 

[TCTC]

So, plan B is another unproven coach without any NHL experience as head coach and who hasn't really made a noticeable difference since he's with the Flyers?

How encouraging.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Isn't this the same organization that missed the playoffs entirely five years in a row back when about 75% of NHL teams made the playoffs?

And what'd they do to get out of the basement? They had balls and went for it with Lindros.

Hextall is a coward and so is the organization for enabling him.

 

[Curufinwe]

And then they totally mishandled Lindros (almost killing him in the process) and saddled the team with crappy coaches until Hitchcock.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

The last 272 (I think that's what CDP said it was) games have already driven me to that.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

And then they totally mishandled Lindros (almost killing him in the process) and saddled the team with crappy coaches until Hitchcock.

And yet they weren't content sitting in mediocrity when a chance to improve the team arose.

 

[Curufinwe]

And yet they weren't content sitting in mediocrity when a chance to improve the team arose.

It's not like they fired the coach immediately every time a bigger name became available.

Hell they hired a former player to be coach when he clearly wasn't up to it, and only got rid of him because of a very public player mutiny.

Holmgren lasted 264 games despite awful results (.464).

 

[tucson83]

A) What’s a “college system” even mean? Plenty of pro teams have used similar systems. It’s just gobbledygook you’re using because you don’t like his system & he coached in college.

B) The complaints about Q are the same complaints about Hak: System not fit for modern hockey; not aggressive enough; doesn’t adapt; plays veteran favorites; team doesn’t play with enough energy; special teams terrible. So why is everyone clamoring for him? Shouldn’t you want a more “modern” coach instead with a more attacking style????

C) Fans always complain about the same things. Meet the new boss; same as the old boss.

that's bull, why is q playing a 19 year old defensemen and that's a 2017 low first round pick, how is he favoring vets if he's playing a 19 year defensemen?

 

[Striiker]

That doesn't make me feel any better because the right time was last April.

Every day that goes by is a waste.

Hypothetically, it would kinda make sense from Hextalls perspective though.

Think about it... Hextall must know that results need to start appearing or he’ll be on the hot seat, right? Fans are obviously getting restless and eventually the people above him will start to take notice, if they haven’t already. Outside of making a big trade, a coaching change is probably the biggest move he can make. So what if he makes a coaching change and things don’t immediately significantly improve? Then the focus would be on him alone and the roster he built.
So when the coaching change is made, there has to be tangible results, and fast. I’m sure he knows this goaltending situation is f***ed, so even though a coaching change is necessary, we’re not immediately in perfect shape once it’s made. He could be waiting until the roster is just about ready to compete (basically the current roster with a little more experiece and improved goaltending) before he pulls this last trick out of his sleeve.

Not saying I would necessarily agree, but it would kinda make sense from a self preservation standpoint. There’s just too much proof to contrary for me to believe they’re on the same page and attatched at the hip. There has to be something else.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Hypothetically, it would kinda make sense from Hextalls perspective though.

Think about it... Hextall must know that results need to start appearing or he’ll be on the hot seat, right? Fans are obviously getting restless and eventually the people above him will start to take notice, if they haven’t already. Outside of making a big trade, a coaching change is probably the biggest move he can make. So what if he makes a coaching change and things don’t immediately significantly improve? Then the focus would be on him alone and the roster he built.
So when the coaching change is made, there has to be tangible results, and fast. I’m sure he knows this goaltending situation is ****ed, so even though a coaching change is necessary, we’re not immediately in perfect shape once it’s made. He could be waiting until the roster is just about ready to compete (basically the current roster with a little more experiece and improved goaltending) before he pulls this last trick out of his sleeve.

Not saying I would necessarily agree, but it would kinda make sense from a self preservation standpoint. There’s just too much proof to contrary for me to believe they’re on the same page and attatched at the hip. There has to be something else.

Well then i'd fire Hextall if he were more interested in self preservation than doing his job.

 

[JXC]

A) What’s a “college system” even mean? Plenty of pro teams have used similar systems. It’s just gobbledygook you’re using because you don’t like his system & he coached in college.

B) The complaints about Q are the same complaints about Hak: System not fit for modern hockey; not aggressive enough; doesn’t adapt; plays veteran favorites; team doesn’t play with enough energy; special teams terrible. So why is everyone clamoring for him? Shouldn’t you want a more “modern” coach instead with a more attacking style????

C) Fans always complain about the same things. Meet the new boss; same as the old boss.

Sums it up quite nicely.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

that's bull, why is q playing a 19 year old defensemen and that's a 2017 low first round pick, how is he favoring vets if he's playing a 19 year defensemen?

Well, the ‘Hawks board probably is more familiar with Q & the Hawks than you are. It is littered with people criticizing Q for playing “favorite” veterans over better players. So you’d be getting rid of a guy and replacing him with another with virtually identical complaints. Provorov led the Flyers’ D in TOI at age 19. Patrick played 15 min a game in the playoffs in his 19 y/o season. Does that mean you recant your complaint about Hak playing favorites over better players?

 

[Striiker]

Well then i'd fire Hextall if he were more interested in self preservation than doing his job.

Self-preservation in order to continue doing his job.

Outside of coaching and goaltending, we're in good shape. Things aren't set and perfect, but they're definitely on the right track. Great vet core, great young players who are still improving, more on the way... things could be a lot worse.

By "self-preservation" I mean buying himself time to see his vision through, not just literally continue getting a paycheck and his own selfish personal needs. I mean, I'm sure he thinks he's the best man for the job, right? What GM wouldn't think that they know best and their path is the right one? Of course they all do. So staying as the GM and helping the team surely go hand in hand, in his eyes.. and that goes for every GM and coach, I'm sure.

 

[Beef Invictus]

A) What’s a “college system” even mean? Plenty of pro teams have used similar systems. It’s just gobbledygook you’re using because you don’t like his system & he coached in college.

B) The complaints about Q are the same complaints about Hak: System not fit for modern hockey; not aggressive enough; doesn’t adapt; plays veteran favorites; team doesn’t play with enough energy; special teams terrible. So why is everyone clamoring for him? Shouldn’t you want a more “modern” coach instead with a more attacking style????

C) Fans always complain about the same things. Meet the new boss; same as the old boss.

A) Make a list of the teams that emphasize low scoring chances in favor of high scoring chances. It's a college system because it works against college goalies (though he never won with good rosters, so arguably it didn't work there either), but this is the NHL with NHL goalies.

B and C) Yeah, if you choose to broadly misread so you can conflate the two coaches because you enjoy contrarianism, I guess you could presume the list of complaints you provided is identical to our complaints. Fans don't complain about the same things. If you pay attention, you'll find unique issues. The complaints about Berube differed from the complaints about Lavi, the complaints about Lavi differed from complaints about Stevens. The complaints about Hakstol are different too.


One of the major, fundamental complaints with Hakstol's system relates to the heavy emphasis on perimeter shots. Where are the complaints about Q doing the same thing? You have seen the heat maps comparing our shooting location to other teams. You described it as jarring. So I know you accept it occurs.

These coaches are not equivalent and your pretending that they are is laughable. I have no idea why you're so deeply opposed to getting rid of Hak when better options present themselves. Deadhead already tried to pull the "But they're just the same" garbage with Trotz and I shredded him.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Self-preservation in order to continue doing his job.

Outside of coaching and goaltending, we're in good shape. Things aren't set and perfect, but they're definitely on the right track. Great vet core, great young players who are still improving, more on the way... things could be a lot worse.

By "self-preservation" I mean buying himself time to see his vision through, not just literally continue getting a paycheck and his own selfish personal needs. I mean, I'm sure he thinks he's the best man for the job, right? What GM wouldn't think that they know best and their path is the right one? Of course they all do. So staying as the GM and helping the team surely go hand in hand, in his eyes.. and that goes for every GM and coach, I'm sure.

In year two? Sure. In year five? Nope.

There is no longer a justification for allowing this mediocrity to continue even if Hextall is doing it in self-preservation in the sense that you mean it. No one should be given a rope this long to turn a team around and be allowed to continue to kick the can down the road.

The fire will be to Hextall's ass sooner rather than later and, at least in my opinion, the longer he attaches himself to Hak the less time he will have to see his vision through.

 

[Striiker]

In year two? Sure. In year five? Nope.

There is no longer a justification for allowing this mediocrity to continue even if Hextall is doing it in self-preservation in the sense that you mean it. No one should be given a rope this long to turn a team around and be allowed to continue to kick the can down the road.

The fire will be to Hextall's ass sooner rather than later and, at least in my opinion, the longer he attaches himself to Hak the less time he will have to see his vision through.

But in year 2 the team wasn't ready to compete, Hakstol or no Hakstol, so firing him then wouldn't have made the same impact. It's only recently that the roster is shaping up into a legit one. So long as the players were still progressing, no real harm was being done by this idiot coach, even if he wasn't using them the way he should. They still continued to improve on their own, so waiting was still possible and harmless. The mediocrity was expected no matter who the coach was while the roster was being rebuilt, so there was no rush to make the inevitable change.

(again, keep in mind I'm strictly talking within this hypothetical, not saying what I would have done or agree with)

 

[bauer]

I mean, I made it clear why I'd be wary of Q, but there's no debate he'd be an upgrade over Hakstol.

An orange pylon would be an upgrade over Hakstol.