Dave Hakstol Part III

[Harhis]

First of all, I’m not sure Magua’s post was even directed at me, because he asserted that people were comparing Hagg to Sanheim, whereas it seemed to me most of the people doing the comparison were Sanheim apologists making excuses.

Second, I’ve long said I think Sanheim is a more talented player than Hagg. But he hasn’t been better than Hagg over 4 games this season. My only argument is that Hagg, for a #5 defenseman, has given — through 4 games — as much as you could expect for a 5D. If you’re criticizing his play, it reeks of bias. And if you think my argument is poor that Hagg has played well as a fifth defenseman in these four games, you’re definitely influenced by bias.

As I said I didn't say he has been bad. I just said your argument is bad.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

As I said I didn't say he has been bad. I just said your argument is bad.

That he’s been an acceptable 5th defenseman? If you agree Hagg hasn’t been bad, & you acknowledge he’s 5th among defensemen in minutes, please tell me how my “argument is bad” when you seem to acknowledge Hagg hasn’t been bad?

 

[Harhis]

That he’s been an acceptable 5th defenseman? If you agree Hagg hasn’t been bad, & you acknowledge he’s 5th among defensemen in minutes, please tell me how my “argument is bad” when you seem to acknowledge Hagg hasn’t been bad?

Your argument was that he has 3 points and is +1 after 4 games so he has been good. Those two things really don't tell much about how he has played.

 

[FlyersMania2]

I love how people defend Hak by saying the team doesn't have enough talent...yet teams in our division like Columbus, NJ, Carolina, and even the Islanders so far all have less talent than us yet play much better hockey.

Give a good coach G, Couts, Provy, Ghost, Voracek, etc and the results would be remarkable.

That was the whole defense of Stevens too remember. He had a team that won a Calder cup but it wasn't enough. We ended up buying him an even better team and he still sucked. This goes back to the old coaching narrative people love to ignore. A good coach will emphasize the strengths of his players and minimize the weaknesses.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Your argument was that he has 3 points and is +1 after 4 games so he has been good. Those two things really don't tell much about how he has played.

My argument was that Hagg has played well as a 5th defenseman in four games. The facts that he has 3 points & is +1 in four games were support for my assertion.

Do you think Hagg has been a bad 5th defenseman over these first 4 games?

 

[Harhis]

That was the whole defense of Stevens too remember. He had a team that won a Calder cup but it wasn't enough. We ended up buying him an even better team and he still sucked. This goes back to the old coaching narrative people love to ignore. A good coach will emphasize the strengths of his players and minimize the weaknesses.

3 years ago Pens looked like they were middle of the pack team and Crosby was basically done, scoring 60 point pace for half a season. Then Sullivan happened and they won 2 cups.

 

[Harhis]

My argument was that Hagg has played well as a 5th defenseman in four games. The facts that he has 3 points & is +1 in four games were support for my assertion.

Do you think Hagg has been a bad 5th defenseman over these first 4 games?

No I think he has been fine. I just don't think those 3 points or his +1 stat really tell me much about his play.

 

[deadhead]

Are you suggesting the other players aren’t self motivated

Relative to Provorov? Yes.
Have you seen the description of his off-season workout? Jerry Rice might upchuck.

I'm convinced that he's physically not 100%, he missed two months recovering from his shoulder injury after the season, but there's something off in his game this year, so they may be hiding another injury.

 

[deadhead]

3 years ago Pens looked like they were middle of the pack team and Crosby was basically done, scoring 60 point pace for half a season. Then Sullivan happened and they won 2 cups.

A lot more than Sullivan happened:

December: traded for Trevor Daley
January: traded Perron for Hagelin
January: promoted Tom Kuhnhackl from AHL
January: promoted Bryan Rust from AHL
January: promoted Conor Sheary from AHL
February: traded 3rd rd pick for Justin Schultz
brought up Matt Murray for the playoffs where he went 15-6 with a .923 S%

Sullivan made a difference, but he didn't adjust to the players, the GM adjusted the players to him.

 

[Harhis]

A lot more than Sullivan happened:

December: traded for Trevor Daley
January: traded Perron for Hagelin
January: promoted Tom Kuhnhackl from AHL
January: promoted Bryan Rust from AHL
January: promoted Conor Sheary from AHL
February: traded 3rd rd pick for Justin Schultz
brought up Matt Murray for the playoffs where he went 15-6 with a .923 S%

Sullivan made a difference, but he didn't adjust to the players, the GM adjusted the players to him.

Or maybe Sullivan told he wants those players from AHL?

 

[Ghosts Beer]

No I think he has been fine. I just don't think those 3 points or his +1 stat really tell me much about his play.

So you agree that Hagg has been “fine” as a 5th defenseman, but you think citing 3 points & +1 in 4 games makes the contention you agree with “bad.”

Holy shit.

 

[Harhis]

So you agree that Hagg has been “fine” as a 5th defenseman, but you think citing 3 points & +1 in 4 games makes the contention you agree with “bad.”

Holy ****.

If you are basing your opinion of him being "fine" for just those two things, then yes I'd say your argument is bad.

 

[FatTugboatFlahr]

Sanheim's soft. He doesn't block shots on one knee like Hagger.

Hagger baby. Hard stuff from Hagger.

 

[Rebels57]

Provorov has looked like complete dog ****.

Holy hyperbole Batman.

 

[FlyersMania2]

Hak Apologist Syndrome: when any and all flaws pertaining to the success, skill and play of the Philadelphia Flyers cannot be attributed to head coach Dave Hakstol.

 

[Harhis]

Hak Apologist Syndrome: when any and all flaws pertaining to the success, skill and play of the Philadelphia Flyers cannot be attributed to head coach Dave Hakstol.

Even though it's coaches job to get most out of his players.

 

[FlyersMania2]

Even though it's coaches job to get most out of his players.

Yes that is exactly what I am saying. Some people on here will blame literally anything else except coaching

 

[Beef Invictus]

Everything is everyone else's fault. Hakstol is flawless and perfect.

 

[Adtar02]

Relative to Provorov? Yes.
Have you seen the description of his off-season workout? Jerry Rice might upchuck.

I'm convinced that he's physically not 100%, he missed two months recovering from his shoulder injury after the season, but there's something off in his game this year, so they may be hiding another injury.

His off season work out is nuts. But the other are too. Especially Giroux. Self motivated has nothing to do with how difficult the work out is.

 

[Striiker]

Anyone notice how suddenly defensive play doesn't matter when judging defensemen and only points and +/- are used?

They'll completely ignore how awful Hagg and MacDonald have been in the D zone, so long as they can point to clearly unsustainable production in a microscopic sample size.

Yikes. The ultra-bias and dishonesty are too much. At this point we're in character flaw territory instead of mere disagreements over hockey. To so easily contradict yourself and be dishonest, over something like this, shows a lack of morals.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Anyone notice how suddenly defensive play doesn't matter when judging defensemen and only points and +/- are used?

They'll completely ignore how awful Hagg and MacDonald have been in the D zone, so long as they can point to clearly unsustainable production in a microscopic sample size.

Yikes. The ultra-bias and dishonesty are too much. At this point we're in character flaw territory instead of mere disagreements over hockey. To so easily contradict yourself and be dishonest, over something like this, shows a lack of morals.

I've noticed how when defensive play was good Hakstol got every bit of credit, but now that they're struggling suddenly it's the players fault alone and Hakstol is blameless.

Funny how that works.

 

[hatcher]

Even though it's coaches job to get most out of his players.

Cant get more out of this group. Look at the efforts on forechecks and back checks and board battles HAHAHAHAHAHA. Dont like the coach either but this team doesnt have it.

 

[Striiker]

I've noticed how when defensive play was good Hakstol got every bit of credit, but now that they're struggling suddenly it's the players fault alone and Hakstol is blameless.

Funny how that works.

Yep, it's pretty disgusting, honestly.

It's the same as last year when they had the losing streak. That was all the players fault and you can't blame Hakstol for them not performing... but then they start winning and it's thanks to Hakstol, apparently. Same with TK... when he was buried in the bottom 6 it was all his fault that he was incapable of playing in the top 6... but as soon as he goes on the top line and starts producing like a maniac, it's BECAUSE of Hakstols player development (literally overnight because the previous day he wasn't a top 6 player).

I can't imagine being so biased and dishonest that they contradict themselves so often and so blatantly that every person reading it knows exactly what they're doing... but they do it anyway.

And then accusing others of bias? More dishonesty.

 

[Tripod]

Anyone notice how suddenly defensive play doesn't matter when judging defensemen and only points and +/- are used?

They'll completely ignore how awful Hagg and MacDonald have been in the D zone, so long as they can point to clearly unsustainable production in a microscopic sample size.

Yikes. The ultra-bias and dishonesty are too much. At this point we're in character flaw territory instead of mere disagreements over hockey. To so easily contradict yourself and be dishonest, over something like this, shows a lack of morals.

Don't forget breakways against. We heard how Ghost ALWAYS allowed them, yet didn't. Not a peep about guys getting behind AMac....only excuses. "He is working himself back to 100%. He was fine in the 2nd and 3rd period"

 

[hatcher]

THIS TEAM IS BAD AND BORING. COACH,GM,PLAYERS.