Lunatik
Registered User
- Oct 12, 2012
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what a simple minded comment. Vegas has a worse PP than Vancouver, they should make changes too, am I right?
Dave Cameron
- Thread starter Mobiandi
- Start date
Mr Snrub
I like the way Snrub thinks!
- Oct 12, 2016
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I'm not saying we ought to change personnel because our power play is worse than Arizona's. I'm saying that the fact that our power play is worse than Arizona's is indicative of the fact that it is not very good and would likely benefit from a coaching change this offseason.
Do you ever get tired of being the smartest person in the room?
Tkachuk Norris
Registered User
- Jun 22, 2012
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Our PP has no creativity. It’s embaressing. No shooters either. It’s basically that one play to Monahan in the slot. If the team shuts that down we’re screwed.
Gaudreau needs to start being selfish and Making things happen out there. It seems like our players are afraid to make a play on the PP.
Gaudreau needs to start being selfish and Making things happen out there. It seems like our players are afraid to make a play on the PP.
JPeeper
Hail Satan!
- Jan 4, 2015
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The coaches are stupid as f. Poor Monahan just sits in the slot waiting for passes that never come because the 4 opposing PK'ers all surround him because they know no one else is dangerous on our PP. And why do those passes never come to Monahan? Because no one moves around the ice, there is no quick passes, it's just the same pass around the perimeter bullshit that PK'ers can easily protect against. Flames fans are giving Mony shit when the coaches are telling him to sit in the slot and wait for the pass, like wtf is he supposed to do? Go outside the box and play perimeter with our other 4 guys and play keep away? Stupid.
I genuinely feel bad for Gaudreau and Mony out there, Gaudreau because he is complete neutered by the coaching and Mony because he just takes shit for not doing anything when he is put in a position to fail from the coaches. Idiotic coaching.
The only PP goals we ever score are ridiculous tips from Tkachuk or a 1/1000 shot going through 9 bodies (the other 999 times it gets blocked because there is 9 bodies blocking it).
I was telling my buddy after the Kings game that Gaudreau should throw a players meeting for the PP guys and just tell them to ignore all the coaches and just go out and play hockey.
Fig
Absolute Horse Shirt
- Dec 15, 2014
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I get what you're saying... but I know what MM is saying too.
Sigalet was torched by our fan base after Hiller had one of the worst sv% in the league. Hiller's not even in the league anymore.
So was Sigalet a problem?
Or is Smith and Rittich succeeding in spite of him?
Was the fan base right in calling for Sigalet's head?
Or were we wrong in scapegoating him?
The PP under Cameron has been abysmal, no doubt. But is it actually Cameron, or something else? The fire Sigalet bandwagon went no where, but we still ended up at our destination of decent goaltending. The fire Cameron bandwagon might be the same... or we might be correct this time.
Anglesmith
Setting up the play?
I agree to a point. There is a big difference between criticizing the goalie coach and criticizing the powerplay coach, though. I condemned the witch hunt for Sigalet because I felt that there isn't really a single separable factor that anyone can point to and say "that right there, that's a result of the goalie coach, and it is directly leading to bad things." We don't know what the goalie coach is doing with the goalies, and everything we do see is a combination of probably less than 5% coaching and greater than 95% the goalie himself.
However, with the powerplay, there are specific things that I would say are separable factors. Where players position themselves once the PP is set up is a direct result of Dave Cameron if he's the one drawing up the scheme. If people don't thing that the configuration can possibly work, then that is something they can lay at Cameron's feet perfectly validly. If Johnny Gaudreau ends up with the puck on the left wing and doesn't really have passing options or a shooting lane, and ends up either giving it away or circling back and resetting, you wonder if that's because guys aren't doing what they're supposed to do. It happens again, and you wonder why they could mess it up twice. Then it happens again. And again, and again, and again. And at a certain point, it's valid to suggest that the plan itself may be leading to this scenario. If that's the case, Cameron should have been fixing it months ago.
Mr Snrub
I like the way Snrub thinks!
- Oct 12, 2016
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I mean, I doubt Monahan, Gaudreau, Giordano, Tkachuk and Ferland will be out of the league by next year. In retrospect we can look at the Sigalet situation and say that the problem was that we never actually gave him anyone good to work with, but that logic doesn't carry across to Cameron.
Then again, I was a big proponent of firing Sigalet, so you should probably take what I say with a grain of salt. All I know is that with a league-average power-play we would probably be at least 1-0-2 in those last three games, if not better, and this is not the time to be throwing away points.
Lunatik
Registered User
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Fig
Absolute Horse Shirt
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Serious question, can a PP style be completely different to a coaching style? For instance, we are a dangerous rush styled team, but a meh cycle one. Doesn't our PP look more cycle styled than rush? How much does GG interfere with Cameron's decision?
TBH, I don't like Cameron, I'm just playing devil's advocate. I also was an early vocal proponent of blaming Sigalet and hiring Sean Burke.
TBH, I don't like Cameron, I'm just playing devil's advocate. I also was an early vocal proponent of blaming Sigalet and hiring Sean Burke.
Ace Rimmer
Stoke me a clipper.
Sounds like someone needs to manage their expectations better.
Lunatik
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Fig
Absolute Horse Shirt
- Dec 15, 2014
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Although there are many similarities, our old rush style entered the zone at speed and did whatever we could to maintain possession in the ozone.
The current one kinda has us waltzing in. This lower speed allows teams to more easily stack players on the blue line and poke a puck harmlessly away. We also seem to collapse like a cheap tent if there's a change in possession in the ozone. I mean, it's two way. Sure, there's less pressure kept on a team during a PP, less risk of a breakaway going the opposite direction, but it also means that it seems like the PP has no killer instinct.
What I mean is this. Though Cameron is in charge of the PP, Gully's system still really bleeds through. If an opposing team gets a stick on the puck in the middle of their zone, you can be damn sure that the dmen are already skating past the blue line in anticipation of the opposing team exiting the zone. This mentality also on occasion causes our team to have slight difficulties keeping the puck in the zone. I feel like I see the puck exit the zone by a foot or less because the dmen have their foot halfway out of the zone to reduce the risk of a breakaway in the opposite direction, and as such were half a step away from keeping the puck in had they been fully in the zone instead.
Ace Rimmer
Stoke me a clipper.
FlamerForLife
Mon Seanahan
Imagine if we were 5 for 22, the PP is the main reason we're on this losing streak.
Lunatik
Registered User
- Oct 12, 2012
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I think it's funny how people have complained about the PP all season, but until Versteeg was injured it was actually fairly successful. When Versteeg got hurt he Flames PP was ranked 12th in the league @ 20.6% since he got hurt, the PP has been ranked 29th and dropped to under 14%. Maybe the problem isn't as much systems as people want to claim and instead personnel.
Ace Rimmer
Stoke me a clipper.
@Method Man you're only thinking about November. And really, the PP was only really productive in three or four games in November.
October they were bad. 14.3% (6/42)
December and January they were a tire fire. Below 11% (9/84)
November was quite successful at 28.6% (12/42) on the backs of 5 ppg in 2 games.
Even if Versteeg is the solution, he won't be back until mid-March. Playoffs may be out of the picture by then.
The issue is that if the Flames were able to go more than 0-for on the PP during this 5 game winless streak, they've likely won most of those games simply by scoring one PPG. This wouldn't even be a conversation.
At this point its close to crisis level. They're scoring just over 10% over the past 60 days. That's wholly unacceptable. I really don't give a damn who's responsible for it, something needs to change, and I don't really care whether it's system, personnel, or whatever.
October they were bad. 14.3% (6/42)
December and January they were a tire fire. Below 11% (9/84)
November was quite successful at 28.6% (12/42) on the backs of 5 ppg in 2 games.
Even if Versteeg is the solution, he won't be back until mid-March. Playoffs may be out of the picture by then.
The issue is that if the Flames were able to go more than 0-for on the PP during this 5 game winless streak, they've likely won most of those games simply by scoring one PPG. This wouldn't even be a conversation.
At this point its close to crisis level. They're scoring just over 10% over the past 60 days. That's wholly unacceptable. I really don't give a damn who's responsible for it, something needs to change, and I don't really care whether it's system, personnel, or whatever.
Anglesmith
Setting up the play?
Yes, with this group of players, there should be a way to make a more effective PP. If the problem is the lack of Versteeg, then an adjustment should have been made to a strategy that doesn't require Versteeg.
Johnny Hoxville
The Return of a Legend
I think Versteeg is part of it, but he’s a 3rd liner at this point. The PP is our main issue without a doubt, but this teams problem is more than Versteeg.
Mobiandi
Registered User
- Jan 17, 2015
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This season, Versteeg was worse than Stajan before his injury and he was the subject of some intense criticism from fans here for his performance on the PP. He was not the glue that held everything together.
This problem actually goes back to last year when our first PP unit was a complete joke and routinely killed 60-80 seconds off due to their incompetence. The 3M line was just unstoppable last year and made it look better than it really was.
This problem actually goes back to last year when our first PP unit was a complete joke and routinely killed 60-80 seconds off due to their incompetence. The 3M line was just unstoppable last year and made it look better than it really was.
Even last year, there was one month where the powerplay was extremely successful while the rest were incredibly frustrating.
And it's slightly more complicated that just looking at results. It's been a momentum killer from the get go. How many times has the team been tied or up by a goal, get a powerplay, squander it, then watch the other team score shortly thereafter? Way too many.
And it's slightly more complicated that just looking at results. It's been a momentum killer from the get go. How many times has the team been tied or up by a goal, get a powerplay, squander it, then watch the other team score shortly thereafter? Way too many.
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