Dave Cameron, join Ken Hitchcock as another one banned from coaching Canada again

Drij

Registered User
Mar 5, 2007
7,333
346
Seems you have a personal axe to grind with Cameron? Surely you can't be that upset with the results?

Everyone last night, including myself was just stunned at how things turned out...but today is another day, you move on and learn from it...

This all seems to personal for you, Big Phil?

It's safe to say he wont ever coach team Canada again.
 

spudnick

Registered User
May 6, 2005
328
0
Both Cameron and the players are to share the blame. To come out and play like they did in the 3rd in inexcusable. How can the players not get motivated to play a 3rd period in the gold medal game. It also says a lot about Cameron that he can't motivate his players before and during the 3rd period. Doesn't matter what anyone says Cameron is not a great coach and I guarentee he will not be asked to coach next year. This WILL go down as the biggest choke of Canadian hockey history and unfortunatley for the players of this team they will always have the stigma of being on "the team" and GAURENTEED from this point on when ever Canada plays for the gold this will always be brought up by future coachs and players of what will happen if you don't give 100%
 

Sexington

Registered User
Feb 6, 2007
533
0
Calgary, AB
What was it then? Fear?

  • Bad Execution
  • Trying to be too individual
  • Trying to force everything to the middle
  • Playing too defensively (goals 1,2,3)
  • Not engaging physically

The Russians were too overwhelming, they attacked and attacked hard. Canada had no answer but it certainly wasn't from a lack of trying or heart. Both teams had ample amounts of that.
 

Joe Hallenback

Moderator
Mar 4, 2005
15,357
21,337
The odd thing is Hitchcock was one fo the most successful Junior coaches of all time and he won a Stanley cup as well. Guess he sucks
 

Joey Moss

Registered User
Aug 29, 2008
36,153
7,997
Agreed the team was selected poorly, but Cameron did some damn good work with the team he took. Absolutely not his fault.
 

DungeonK

Love Thy Neighbor
Jul 6, 2006
5,617
0
Atlanta
You are the type of person who takes the fun right out of hockey. These are kids for christ sake.

Maybe you should take a break from hockey and fill your life with other things than hockey.

Big Phil is actually Don Cherry's slow younger brother, cut him some slack.
 

spudnick

Registered User
May 6, 2005
328
0
Agreed the team was selected poorly, but Cameron did some damn good work with the team he took. Absolutely not his fault.

Without a doubt its his fault. How can a coach not get his players motivated for the 3rd period of a gold medal game.?
 

Pick Six

@Lafortune_FC
Jan 1, 2009
1,813
1
Mississauga
The funny thing is, coaching is the main reason they made it that far, and passed the States. They don't even make it that far without Cameron coaching.
 

spudnick

Registered User
May 6, 2005
328
0
  • Bad Execution
  • Trying to be too individual
  • Trying to force everything to the middle
  • Playing too defensively (goals 1,2,3)
  • Not engaging physically

The Russians were too overwhelming, they attacked and attacked hard. Canada had no answer but it certainly wasn't from a lack of trying or heart. Both teams had ample amounts of that.

It wasn't that Canada did not have an answer because they had an answer the first 2 periods. They decided to come out in the 3rd trying to hold the lead instead of attacking and trying to get the 4th goal (which I blame on the coach) and as soon as Russia made it a game they choked. The Canadians played were scared about losing the lead . This caused more mistakes because they were thinking about not losing as opposed to winning. It was a choke of epic proportion, plain and simple no other way to describe it.
 

spudnick

Registered User
May 6, 2005
328
0
You think the reason Canada lost was because they weren't motivated?

In the 3rd period without a doubt it was. How else do you explain playing flat out awful? This was the BIGGEST game of their young careers how can you not come out and Fore check, Hit, back check, Cycle the puck down low, everything that made them successful in the US game and the first 2 periods of the gold medal game. Russia may have been a better team but not that much better where they score 5 unanswered goals. The Canadians fell a part in the 3rd error after error after error. Motivation alone should have prevented that.
 

Sexington

Registered User
Feb 6, 2007
533
0
Calgary, AB
It wasn't that Canada did not have an answer because they had an answer the first 2 periods. They decided to come out in the 3rd trying to hold the lead instead of attacking and trying to get the 4th goal (which I blame on the coach) and as soon as Russia made it a game they choked. The Canadians played were scared about losing the lead . This caused more mistakes because they were thinking about not losing as opposed to winning. It was a choke of epic proportion, plain and simple no other way to describe it.

And only Canada knows what was said in the dressing room. If Cameron said "hold the lead boys, 3rd man high. Play the trap", then yes I can see how people can say it was Cameron's fault for allowing Russia back into the game.
 

Preach

Registered User
Oct 8, 2006
364
0
I'm Canadian, been a hockey fan all my life of 20+ years.

The WJC is a great tourney for the kids for them to learn and to showcase each country's young up and coming talent but that's pretty much it.

This tourney doesn't mean anything more than that, it doesn't show which country is better at hockey it doesn't prove which country has the best young crop of players in a certain age bracket. Too many good young eligible players are in the NHL and weren't available for the tourney.

Russia showed heart by not packing it in but they were helped and handed the victories by the opposition being complacent and taking the foot off the gas. Part of being young. If Russia was so good and truly the best why didn't they show up at least once and match the level of their opposition at its best? Instead of playing possum/bad 2/3rds of the game and then "taking over" when the opposition isn't at their best anymore.

Just saying Russia deserves some credit but not as much as a true champion should, in this kind of tourney anyway.

As for Canada, none of them including the coaching staff deserve as much blame as people are giving them. To me this team was one of the weakest Canadian Jr teams in terms of talent I've seen, and any honest fan coming into this tourney would not have expected them to win the gold. They weren't the favourites to win, USA and even Sweden were. No offense but most of these Canadian kids would be fortunate to make the NHL, and very few would ever be upper echelon NHLers. The Russians on the other hand had more skill, especially Kuznetsov and Tarasenko.

On that basis alone you cannot fault anyone from team Canada for not winning, sure they choked and lost a 3-0 lead but they were playing way above their heads anyway throughout most of the tourney. They more than they could based on their ability and so we should be proud of the kids for that alone not the result.
 

spudnick

Registered User
May 6, 2005
328
0
The funny thing is, coaching is the main reason they made it that far, and passed the States. They don't even make it that far without Cameron coaching.

Fair enough, but when all the chips are on the table for the gold medal he FAILED. Call a time out and get the guys F'ing motivated. Look no further then Peter Laviolette in game 7 of the Boston series last year. Flyers down 3-0 in game 7, peter calls a time out and the Flyers go on the win the game and series 4-3. Richards and others said the time out and the speech after the 2nd period gave them so much motivation that they "KNEW" they were going to win that game.
 

Sexington

Registered User
Feb 6, 2007
533
0
Calgary, AB
Fair enough, but when all the chips are on the table for the gold medal he FAILED. Call a time out and get the guys F'ing motivated. Look no further then Peter Laviolette in game 7 of the Boston series last year. Flyers down 3-0 in game 7, peter calls a time out and the Flyers go on the win the game and series 4-3. Richards and others said the time out and the speech after the 2nd period gave them so much motivation that they "KNEW" they were going to win that game.

He was very animated during the timeout. There's not much more a guy can do, Russia just outplayed the team in the last 20 minutes and a combination of poor execution, goaltending and excellent play by Russia won the game. You can't pin this game on the coach.
 

spudnick

Registered User
May 6, 2005
328
0
I'm Canadian, been a hockey fan all my life of 20+ years.

The WJC is a great tourney for the kids for them to learn and to showcase each country's young up and coming talent but that's pretty much it.

This tourney doesn't mean anything more than that, it doesn't show which country is better at hockey it doesn't prove which country has the best young crop of players in a certain age bracket. Too many good young eligible players are in the NHL and weren't available for the tourney.

Russia showed heart by not packing it in but they were helped and handed the victories by the opposition being complacent and taking the foot off the gas. Part of being young. If Russia was so good and truly the best why didn't they show up at least once and match the level of their opposition at its best? Instead of playing possum/bad 2/3rds of the game and then "taking over" when the opposition isn't at their best anymore.

Just saying Russia deserves some credit but not as much as a true champion should, in this kind of tourney anyway.

As for Canada, none of them including the coaching staff deserve as much blame as people are giving them. To me this team was one of the weakest Canadian Jr teams in terms of talent I've seen, and any honest fan coming into this tourney would not have expected them to win the gold. They weren't the favourites to win, USA and even Sweden were. No offense but most of these Canadian kids would be fortunate to make the NHL, and very few would ever be upper echelon NHLers. The Russians on the other hand had more skill, especially Kuznetsov and Tarasenko.

On that basis alone you cannot fault anyone from team Canada for not winning, sure they choked and lost a 3-0 lead but they were playing way above their heads anyway throughout most of the tourney. They more than they could based on their ability and so we should be proud of the kids for that alone not the result.

Although it may seem like it I am not mad at all. I'm upset but I know Canada will be right back up there next year. I do feel bad for the kids (and yes they are kids) but they will always have the stigma of playing for "that team". While everyone shares the blame I put the majority on the coach. For his players to play like they did against the US and the first 2 periods against the Russians and then to come out and play like they did in the 3rd just doesn't add up. I can't see every player all having a brain dump at the exact same time. I honestly believe the coach told them to defend the lead instead of going for the throat, they played to not lose instead of winning. Even still letting a 3 goal lead slip away in the biggest game of their lives, they must feel like **** today. But life goes on and most of them will have good/great NHL careers.
 

mobilus

Five and a game
Jan 6, 2009
1,146
575
high slot
The last few minutes of the second the Canadians were noticeably slowing down. I thought they were slipping into a defensive game to protect the lead (which I hate seeing). They continued that in the third which cost them everything. But by the time the Russians had goal #4 though, I realized they weren't playing defensive hockey, they were just out of gas. Whatever they were doing all week, they just couldn't sustain the pace for another 20 minutes. Too much adrenaline too soon maybe.

I don't blame the coaches, I don't blame the goaltending, I don't blame the players. C'est la vie.
 

Ilyeu

Registered User
Jan 10, 2010
929
11
Dave Cameron did a great job coaching this team; Canada went to the Gold Medal game. You could question his selection process, but everyone bought into it. For the most part, it was successful. To disregard this, means you aren't thinking straight.

However, I do agree with the OP about certain aspects of Dave Cameron, and he's to blame mostly. He sold an entire system on sheer size, grit and determination against speedy, skilled players.

This Canadian team could have easily been made for the Russians, and they showed that they were. The Canadians played the same amount of ice time, and are the same ages like the Russians, so being out gassed probably is not an excuse.

The problem in the Gold Medal game, where it counts, is that Dave Cameron simply didn't follow through with his own game plan. Instead of directing his players to keep up the intensity, he sat back passively. The Russian coach, blasted his players with profanity in the second period, as mentioned by a Russian player.

Dave Cameroon instilled no leadership qualities, when it counted most, when it was his job to secure that 3-0 lead, and get his troops in position for the final assault.Dave Cameroon failed to read the battle field, he failed to act when his team was being pushed back, he failed to realize when his goalie was being assaulted and make a swap.

By the selection process and by his interviews we can see that Dave Cameroon is a safe guarded individual, who puts no risks when winning. His passive nature, was undone in 20 minutes, by a team that had more drive, more fortitude. What a coach says and does passes down to it's players, so if the players weren't passing, weren't checking, weren't following game plans, the onus is on the coach.

Canada was completely able to defend this 3-0 lead; yet the whole team fell apart. In 20 minutes, did Cameroon not realize this? What was he saying to his players on the bench, how was he juggling his lines. What was he doing?

You know every year we hear bad things about "bad coaching" when Canada dominates the Russians in the WJC, but no, because this is Canada, we can't say bad things about Dave Cameroon's bad coaching decisions.

Dave Cameroon started this team, he started strong, but in most things in life it's how you finish. The Russians finished with 5 unanswered goals, the Canadians finished with no answer, and the Canadian fans spend $250.00 on overpriced junior tickets.
 

Uncle Rotter

Registered User
May 11, 2010
5,974
1,037
Kelowna, B.C.
The problem in the Gold Medal game, where it counts, is that Dave Cameron simply didn't follow through with his own game plan. Instead of directing his players to keep up the intensity, he sat back passively.
...when Team Canada went to the dressing room for the second intermission, the passionate overflow crowd could not have been more confident with the three-goal lead and only 20 minutes to play.

But the Team Canada coaching staff, headed by Dave Cameron, didn't like all that they were seeing. Cameron, as a rule, never goes into the dressing room between periods until there's nine minutes or less on the intermission clock, but he felt things were slipping away a bit on his guys so he went in at the beginning of the intermission to talk to them.

"I just wanted to tell them to relax and get them re-focused, get back to playing our game," he said.

http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/bob_mckenzie/?id=348283
 

McDNicks17

Moderator
Jul 1, 2010
41,587
29,947
Ontario
Fair enough, but when all the chips are on the table for the gold medal he FAILED. Call a time out and get the guys F'ing motivated. Look no further then Peter Laviolette in game 7 of the Boston series last year. Flyers down 3-0 in game 7, peter calls a time out and the Flyers go on the win the game and series 4-3. Richards and others said the time out and the speech after the 2nd period gave them so much motivation that they "KNEW" they were going to win that game.

So, you bring up a time that a time-out helped. Did you forget to mention the thousands of times a time-out hasn't affected a game?

You have no idea if that time-out changes the game. Get over it.
 

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