Datsyuk vs Kovalev

[Agent Zub]

Was surprised to see Kovalev beating Kovalchuk in the other poll.

I love Kovalev but I think he has a certain mythos that makes his skillset overated. I think Datsyuk is clearly more talented but what does HF think ?

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[CH]

Ilya Kovalchuk is not thought of fondly. Too many people remember him walking out on New Jersey and not fitting in in Los Angeles and in the "what have you done for me lately" mentality forget his Atlanta success. They found a loophole (an odd interpretation of skill where it means something other than the ability to succeed at playing hockey but rather to make highlight reel plays and not be as valuable a player) to vote for Alexei Kovalev over Ilya Kovalchuk. This was wrong. When given a player who is thought of positively like Pavel Datsyuk, it is clear that nobody will make the same mistake again. That includes the people who made the false claim that Kovalev may be the most skilled player ever.

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

Playing defense is a skill. So is consistency.

 

[Machinehead]

When I think of "skill," I think of hands and shooting and I think Kovalev gets the nod there.

Datsyuk might have slightly better hands but Kovalev had a much better shot.

The main difference between the two is hockey sense which Datsyuk was generational at.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

Ilya Kovalchuk is not thought of fondly. Too many people remember him walking out on New Jersey and not fitting in in Los Angeles and in the "what have you done for me lately" mentality forget his Atlanta success. They found a loophole (an odd interpretation of skill where it means something other than the ability to succeed at playing hockey but rather to make highlight reel plays and not be as valuable a player) to vote for Alexei Kovalev over Ilya Kovalchuk. This was wrong. When given a player who is thought of positively like Pavel Datsyuk, it is clear that nobody will make the same mistake again. That includes the people who made the false claim that Kovalev may be the most skilled player ever.

A former teammate had unkind things to say on spittin chiclets as well. Forget who it was, but he just came across as honest about it- found Kovalchuk selfish. Aloof. That sorta stuff. Hell of a scorer, but his best years were running wild in Atlanta because they sucked and it didn’t matter. No D, potentially a bad team presence.. I’ll take Datsyuk.

 

[Agent Zub]

A former teammate had unkind things to say on spittin chiclets as well. Forget who it was, but he just came across as honest about it- found Kovalchuk selfish. Aloof. That sorta stuff. Hell of a scorer, but his best years were running wild in Atlanta because they sucked and it didn’t matter. No D, potentially a bad team presence.. I’ll take Datsyuk.

maybe he came off as aloof because he was busting his ass trying to make his team relevant while his teammates tanked.

 

[CH]

A former teammate had unkind things to say on spittin chiclets as well. Forget who it was, but he just came across as honest about it- found Kovalchuk selfish. Aloof. That sorta stuff. Hell of a scorer, but his best years were running wild in Atlanta because they sucked and it didn’t matter. No D, potentially a bad team presence.. I’ll take Datsyuk.

Most of your description of Ilya Kovalchuk could be used to describe Alexei Kovalev. The only difference is Kovalev was never the number one guy on an NHL team.

 

[North Cole]

I'll take the guy that can moonwalk flawlessly on skates for 1000.

 

[Albatros]

The only difference is Kovalev was never the number one guy on an NHL team.

And won the cup in a big role while Kovalchuk as the number one guy hardly ever made the playoffs.

 

[CH]

And won the cup in a big role while Kovalchuk as the number one guy hardly ever made the playoffs.

Maybe if Kovalchuk played with Mark Messier, Brian Leetch, Mike Richter et al in their primes, he would have won a Stanley Cup too.

 

[Albatros]

Maybe. What we can say is that he wouldn't have been the number one guy.

 

[Gurglesons]

Datsyuk.

 

[CH]

Maybe. What we can say is that he wouldn't have been the number one guy.

I was in a hockey pool when Kovalchuk was picked third overal in 2003 or so. I think Kovalev was never picked until about 15th or 20th overall in any pool I participated in. I think that says all we need to know about who was better given that neither is known for strong defence.

That might be a more meaningful comparison than trying to play lawyer about who was the best player on hypothetical teams and what that all means.

 

[Fatass]

Give me the “Datsyukian” one.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Was surprised to see Kovalev beating Kovalchuk in the other poll.

I love Kovalev but I think he has a certain mythos that makes his skillset overated. I think Datsyuk is clearly more talented but what does HF think ?

I think Kovalev is overrated so I’ll compare him to Datsyuk who is one of the 10 most talented people to ever use a hockey stick.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

Most of your description of Ilya Kovalchuk could be used to describe Alexei Kovalev. The only difference is Kovalev was never the number one guy on an NHL team.

Didn’t think it needed reiterating that Kovalev was often viewed as a bad teammate, but you’re 100% right- I’m just pointing out the Kovalchuk thing because I feel like that wasn’t known at the time, at least. I liked him as a kid, it’s only in hindsight that I feel his 30-40+ goals per year with the thrashers.. is less impressive, given everything else. So some people dislike him from his devils drama, I’m pointing out even at his peak he mighta been overrated- whereas I feel like everyone has always known the goods and bads of kovalev.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

When I think of "skill," I think of hands and shooting and I think Kovalev gets the nod there.

Datsyuk might have slightly better hands but Kovalev had a much better shot.

The main difference between the two is hockey sense which Datsyuk was generational at.

Why do people always leave out the most fundamental and basic skill, skating ability?

As for shooting, I don't think they're that far apart. Datsyuk had a lightning release and one of the best backhands ever.

 

[Mickey Marner]

Datsyuk was more skilled within the context of a hockey game.

 

[Machinehead]

Why do people always leave out the most fundamental and basic skill, skating ability?

As for shooting, I don't think they're that far apart. Datsyuk had a lightning release and one of the best backhands ever.

Carl Hagelin prevents me from ever correlating skill and skating in my head.

 

[SouthWest]

I voted for kovalev over kovalchuck in the last one, but give me datsyuk for the same reasons.

Dats>Kovalev>Kovy

 

[bambamcam4ever]

When I think of "skill," I think of hands and shooting and I think Kovalev gets the nod there.

Datsyuk might have slightly better hands but Kovalev had a much better shot.

The main difference between the two is hockey sense which Datsyuk was generational at.

Datsyuk did not have generational hockey sense. He was a smart player, but that is way too far.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I feel like Kovalev's skill level was pretty overrated. I feel like making plays at top speed is probably the most important "skill" a player can possess, and Kovalev just wasn't a great skater. Sure, when his feet were relatively stationary he could make some great plays because he had great hands (and that led to some highlight reel plays). But without speed and agility to go with it, his skills weren't all that impressive.

I honestly don't see a ton separating Kovalev and David Perron, aside from Kovalev having the heavier shot. The way they handle the puck and make plays is almost identical.

 

[spiny norman]

Lopsided result.