Darryl Sittler
- Thread starter GlitchMarner
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The Panther
Registered User
Good topic, good question there.
I don't know as I never saw him play, either.
But a fun fact: Sittler did not have an overly long career, yet in his rookie season he was teammates with Jacques Plante and in his final season he was teammates with Steve Yzerman and Shawn Burr.
Iapyi
Registered User
He was a consummate complete player as I remember. Solid in all aspects of the game. Good example of how asinine it is to "retire #s" as it is really cool to have 2 greats from an organization sharing a #.
GlitchMarner
Typical malevolent, devious & vile Maple Leafs fan
Do you feel that he's become less highly regarded as time has gone by? Was he a bigger name in the 80s or 90s than he is now?
Denis Savard's stature seems to be diminishing as time passes.
Thenameless
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You know, I like Darryl Sittler a lot. I enjoyed watching that era of the Leafs.
If we're going to compare him directly to Matthews though, I think it's Matthews pretty easily. One could say that Sittler is the better rounded player and the better leader, but Matthews' goal scoring ability is top notch and the rest of his game isn't bad either.
If we're going to compare him directly to Matthews though, I think it's Matthews pretty easily. One could say that Sittler is the better rounded player and the better leader, but Matthews' goal scoring ability is top notch and the rest of his game isn't bad either.
Staniowski
Registered User
I like Sittler too. He was a well-rounded player. He had excellent hockey sense, so he was naturally good at a lot of things. He had pretty good puck skills, but he achieved a lot via hard work. He could grind, he could hit, a clutch player.
He was a very big star, very popular, in the '70s and early '80s in Toronto and in all of Canada.
His popularity probably did exceed the quality of his play.....but he was still a very good hockey player.
He was a very big star, very popular, in the '70s and early '80s in Toronto and in all of Canada.
His popularity probably did exceed the quality of his play.....but he was still a very good hockey player.
Thenameless
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Yes, Sittler combined skill with hard work very nicely. I remember a Hockey Night in Canada feature on him between periods sometime in the mid to late 70's, and the background theme music that they used was the disco song "The Hustle" by Van McCoy. Very appropriate.
vadim sharifijanov
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sittler was before my time so i can't really say much about his game. but i tend to see sittler in a group of 70s and 80s generic superstar scoring centers who over fifteen years from the early 70s to the late 80s took turns having career years where they would snag a second team all-star and sneak into the MVP conversation for a year.
so you have ratelle, perreault, sittler, stastny, savard, and hawerchuk. i think clearly espo, clarke, dionne, trottier, mario, and obviously gretzky were a class above.
of the guys i named, sittler has the largest gap between his career year and his second best year.
his big year was 1978, when he scored 117 points, finished 3rd in both the scoring race and for the hart trophy, and got his one second team all-star (behind trottier's breakout year). sittler has four other top 10 years, but they are all 8th or 9th places. his career year is 17 points higher than his second highest scoring year.
whereas ratelle has his big year in 1972. 3rd in scoring and MVP, 109 points. over a decade-long prime, he has seven top 10, mostly in the 6-7 range, finishing as high as 4th in the much lower scoring 1968. on raw numbers, ratelle's second best year was 105 points (6th), though it should be noted that not only was that a higher scoring season (five 110+ scorers that year, vs just espo/orr), ratelle also missed 17 games in 1972 and his points/game was an astonishing 1.73, only 0.02 behind espo for number one.
perreault's big year was 1976. 113 points, 3rd in the league, one of back-to-back second team all-stars (both behind clarke, then dionne), though unlike everyone else on this list he got almost no hart consideration that year. his next highest scoring season in raw points was 106 points, good for 4th, and has five top 10s overall, three of them in the top 5.
stastny has a great run of three years, all with 120+ points, but his best one was 1982, when he scored 139 points, 3rd in the league, 4th for the MVP, third in all-star voting behind gretzky and trottier. stastny has the best prime of these players, with six top 10s over eight seasons, but all are top 6, and he finished as high as 2nd.
savard had two peak years, 1983 and 1988. in '83, he scored 121 points, finished 3rd in scoring, 3rd for the MVP, second team all-star behind gretzky. in '88, he had a numerically greater year, 131 points, 3rd in scoring again, 5th for the MVP, third team all-star (behind mario's first MVP season and gretzky). in the same prime years as stastny, savard had five top 10s, the two 3rd places and the rest in the 6-7 range.
and finally hawerchuk in 1985: 130 points, 3rd in scoring, 2nd in hart voting, second team all-star. he only had four top 10s, but his other super high one was 121 points (4th).
then in 1989, yzerman has his 155 year and raises the ceiling on the generic superstar scorer.
anyway, insofar as we see these guys ahead of the one year wonders like larouche, nilsson, and maruk, who don't have a handful of other top 10s to back it up, or federko who didn't have the one spike season, i feel like sittler is the lowest of the group, with stastny being the highest.
so you have ratelle, perreault, sittler, stastny, savard, and hawerchuk. i think clearly espo, clarke, dionne, trottier, mario, and obviously gretzky were a class above.
of the guys i named, sittler has the largest gap between his career year and his second best year.
his big year was 1978, when he scored 117 points, finished 3rd in both the scoring race and for the hart trophy, and got his one second team all-star (behind trottier's breakout year). sittler has four other top 10 years, but they are all 8th or 9th places. his career year is 17 points higher than his second highest scoring year.
whereas ratelle has his big year in 1972. 3rd in scoring and MVP, 109 points. over a decade-long prime, he has seven top 10, mostly in the 6-7 range, finishing as high as 4th in the much lower scoring 1968. on raw numbers, ratelle's second best year was 105 points (6th), though it should be noted that not only was that a higher scoring season (five 110+ scorers that year, vs just espo/orr), ratelle also missed 17 games in 1972 and his points/game was an astonishing 1.73, only 0.02 behind espo for number one.
perreault's big year was 1976. 113 points, 3rd in the league, one of back-to-back second team all-stars (both behind clarke, then dionne), though unlike everyone else on this list he got almost no hart consideration that year. his next highest scoring season in raw points was 106 points, good for 4th, and has five top 10s overall, three of them in the top 5.
stastny has a great run of three years, all with 120+ points, but his best one was 1982, when he scored 139 points, 3rd in the league, 4th for the MVP, third in all-star voting behind gretzky and trottier. stastny has the best prime of these players, with six top 10s over eight seasons, but all are top 6, and he finished as high as 2nd.
savard had two peak years, 1983 and 1988. in '83, he scored 121 points, finished 3rd in scoring, 3rd for the MVP, second team all-star behind gretzky. in '88, he had a numerically greater year, 131 points, 3rd in scoring again, 5th for the MVP, third team all-star (behind mario's first MVP season and gretzky). in the same prime years as stastny, savard had five top 10s, the two 3rd places and the rest in the 6-7 range.
and finally hawerchuk in 1985: 130 points, 3rd in scoring, 2nd in hart voting, second team all-star. he only had four top 10s, but his other super high one was 121 points (4th).
then in 1989, yzerman has his 155 year and raises the ceiling on the generic superstar scorer.
anyway, insofar as we see these guys ahead of the one year wonders like larouche, nilsson, and maruk, who don't have a handful of other top 10s to back it up, or federko who didn't have the one spike season, i feel like sittler is the lowest of the group, with stastny being the highest.
82Ninety42011
Registered User
Still holds record most points game 10. I believe 6 goals four assists but it's been a long time. Was a great player on a bad team from what I remember.
The Panther
Registered User
1982-83 always jumps out to me as a weird season in Philly, as both Bob Clarke and Sittler turned back the clock and had late-career All-Star type seasons.
I suppose the hiring of Keenan in 1984 spelled the end of Sittler as a Flyer, since Philly wanted to go with the young guys. He didn't do much with the Red Wings that final season... then again, it was the mid-80s' Red Wings.
I suppose the hiring of Keenan in 1984 spelled the end of Sittler as a Flyer, since Philly wanted to go with the young guys. He didn't do much with the Red Wings that final season... then again, it was the mid-80s' Red Wings.
ted2019
History of Hockey
I see Sittler as a 2nd line ATD Type, maybe around the #200-230 mark in terms of the HOH project. If he was on a better team,, he would most certainly be higher.
frisco
Some people claim that there's a woman to blame...
I remember looking up that Sittler was 1-14 in either best of 5 or best of 7 series in his career. He won a few best of 3 preliminary rounds. For a team with a core of three (first ballot?) HOFers in Sittler, MacDonald and Salming the Leafs from that era fared quite poorly. And when Sittler went to Philly those were contending teams but couldn't do it come playoff time, either.
My Best-Carey
My Best-Carey
The Panther
Registered User
It's all before my time and I never saw it, but whenever I look at the stats/records of the late-70s' Leafs, it always strikes me that they had a small core of good players and then a bunch of bums.
Take, for example, the even-strength results of the Leafs in 1977:
+46 Turnbull
+45 Salming
+12 McDonald
+10 Williams
+7 Sittler
=14 Ashby
-19 Carlyle
-26 McKenny
How does a D playing 76 games go -26 while another D playing 76 games goes +46?
They always seem to be a club with four or five good players and then some plugs. I dunno, just my impression.
reckoning
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According to Mark Howe's book, Keenan told Sittler right before the season started that he would be named Flyers captain and that he should prepare a speech for when they made the announcement at a luncheon the next day. Then right before that was about to happen, Clarke traded him to Detroit.
The Panther
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reckoning
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Can't blame Keenan; Clarke was the one who did it.
But you'd think the coach and GM would be on the same page.
The Panther
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cupcrazyman
Stupid Sexy Flanders
Big Phil
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Always thought he was a legit HHOFer.
Yeah, for some reason there are those guys who seem to not age terribly well in the eyes of the newer fans. Someone mentioned Denis Savard as well. Yeah, whether it is Savard or Sittler, there is no doubt that they were elite centres for several years in their career. Savard for longer and better.
One thing about the Leafs is that they always were not great but never horrible enough to miss the playoffs and this seemed to make them play a very good team awaiting them.
1971: Rangers
1972: Bruins
1974: Bruins
1975: Flyers
1976: Flyers
1977: Flyers
1978: Habs
1979: Habs
1980: Northstars (the exception, but still better than the Leafs)
1981: Islanders
You aren't going far there. And they didn't. Sittler has 74 points in 76 playoff games. It's okay, and he has his moments like the 5 goal game vs. Philly in 1976 and a scoring explosion in 1977 where he scored 21 points that spring and the Leafs overall scored 31. But there isn't a whole lot in his playoff career that elevates him to the HHOF. It is very ordinary, even if you can't pin it all on him.
Let's face it, if he was never in the HHOF he would constantly be a name we'd be bringing up all of the time. A guy with an all-star voting record at his position of: 2, 5, 5, 5 and a Hart voting record of: 3, 8, 9, 9, 9, 13 would be someone we would be asking "Why isn't he in yet" all of the time. A 15 year career, I'd give him at least a decade of elite hockey at a pretty high level. Definitely noticeable in his era. How many centres over his career were better than him? Not many. So he gets in based on that sort of stuff.
Now, is he more popular and such than his playing career indicates? Yeah, I think so. But part of that is yes that he was a Leaf and he to this day owns the single game points record of 10 and he scored the Canada Cup winning goal in 1976 in memorable fashion. I think that elevates him more in the public's eyes, but keep in mind, he deserved to be on Team Canada in 1976, it wasn't by accident, and he was an elite centre at that time.
Yeah, for some reason there are those guys who seem to not age terribly well in the eyes of the newer fans. Someone mentioned Denis Savard as well. Yeah, whether it is Savard or Sittler, there is no doubt that they were elite centres for several years in their career. Savard for longer and better.
One thing about the Leafs is that they always were not great but never horrible enough to miss the playoffs and this seemed to make them play a very good team awaiting them.
1971: Rangers
1972: Bruins
1974: Bruins
1975: Flyers
1976: Flyers
1977: Flyers
1978: Habs
1979: Habs
1980: Northstars (the exception, but still better than the Leafs)
1981: Islanders
You aren't going far there. And they didn't. Sittler has 74 points in 76 playoff games. It's okay, and he has his moments like the 5 goal game vs. Philly in 1976 and a scoring explosion in 1977 where he scored 21 points that spring and the Leafs overall scored 31. But there isn't a whole lot in his playoff career that elevates him to the HHOF. It is very ordinary, even if you can't pin it all on him.
Let's face it, if he was never in the HHOF he would constantly be a name we'd be bringing up all of the time. A guy with an all-star voting record at his position of: 2, 5, 5, 5 and a Hart voting record of: 3, 8, 9, 9, 9, 13 would be someone we would be asking "Why isn't he in yet" all of the time. A 15 year career, I'd give him at least a decade of elite hockey at a pretty high level. Definitely noticeable in his era. How many centres over his career were better than him? Not many. So he gets in based on that sort of stuff.
Now, is he more popular and such than his playing career indicates? Yeah, I think so. But part of that is yes that he was a Leaf and he to this day owns the single game points record of 10 and he scored the Canada Cup winning goal in 1976 in memorable fashion. I think that elevates him more in the public's eyes, but keep in mind, he deserved to be on Team Canada in 1976, it wasn't by accident, and he was an elite centre at that time.
