Value of: Darnell Nurse for Top 6 winger Pre-Expansion Draft

[FreeMcdavid]

Disagree. However, I don't expect fans from other teams to be reasonable about players on the Oilers. We've seen this over and over again. No, Nurse isn't a true #1. He is a 2nd pairing guy, playing heavy minutes. He is better seen as a #3. A Pearson/Toffoli level player? That's a joke and you know it.

You guys think if Nurse was a true #1 we'd be talking about players like Boeser?

I dont think theres too many posters, even Oiler fans that think Nurse is a #1

Youre right if he was you'd ask for Pettersson.

For Boeser though he better be a #2 which he is not.

He a tweener between #3 and #4 and getting somene like Tyler Tofolli would be very fair value for Nurse. Tho i dont think its what the Oilers should do but value wise its spot on

 

[Cloned]

You must of missed the meeting where @Cloned was voted your HFOil representative.

Also Nurse is consistently among the highest in PIMS for the oilers, just because he racks up bonus Mcpoint assists doesn’t mean his value sky rockets

I only play politics when I need a break from reality.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

You must of missed the meeting where @Cloned was voted your HFOil representative.

Also Nurse is consistently among the highest in PIMS for the oilers, just because he racks up bonus Mcpoint assists doesn’t mean his value sky rockets

Okay if playing with McDavid hurts his totals. Don’t sell us players on what they might do with McDavid, sell us on what they are.

 

[FreeMcdavid]

Nurse has to be one of the most underrated players in the NHL right now.

Just because he likes to rush the puck up the ice doesn't mean he's dumb. I'm glad that we can keep our 6''4 physical 40 point 'middle-tier defensemen'.

I dont think anybody watches Nurse play and thinks, thats a consistent 40 point Dman.

He had it once and it took a year in which Mcdavid and Drai both had over 100 pts.

Thats absurd. He isnt getting close to 40 points on any other team.

That would be like me saying Kevin Bieksa is a 40 point Dman. though its factually true, he even did it twice

It would not be accurate to describe the way he played as an offensive "40 point" dman. He did it when the Sedin Twins were about to, or at their prime and absoloutely dominated. The rest of his career he averaged I think 20-25 points a year.

 

[Llamamoto]

I dont think anybody watches Nurse play and thinks, thats a consistent 40 point Dman.

He had it once and it took a year in which Mcdavid and Drai both had over 100 pts.

Thats absurd. He isnt getting close to 40 points on any other team.

That would be like me saying Kevin Bieksa is a 40 point Dman. though its factually true, he even did it twice

It would not be accurate to describe the way he played as an offensive "40 point" dman. He did it when the Sedin Twins were about to, or at their prime and absoloutely dominated. The rest of his career he averaged I think 20-25 points a year.

He scored 40 points in 2018-19 and paced for 38 this past year.

In terms of 5v5 points, he's 7th in the entire league over the past 3 years behind Carlson, Josi, Burns, Karlsson, Rielly, and Barrie.

 

[Roof Daddy]

The OP’s entire premise is based on the protection format - that you can protect more players in the 7-3-1 format than 4-4-1, but did it occur to anyone that the format is in place for a reason? It is harder to find a quality D man than a Forward, as well as it takes longer to develop for D vs F.

Broberg and Bouchard would have to come in and blow the doors off for me to consider parting with our best D man (while Klefbom is out).

 

[FreeMcdavid]

wActually you know what, now that ive mentioned it,

I will retract my Gurdbranson comparison with Nurse. I do believe Nurse has more offensive capabilities than Gudbranson.

I do however like the Kevin Bieksa comparison to Nurse

- tough as nails
-excellent skaters
- flashes of offensive game
- played lots of minutes tho not top pairing player and more of a #3-4 Tweener
-Played with league MVPs in their prime
- questionable decision making abilities
- always an adventure on the defensive end or when they had the puck
Bieksa actually had a nickname aside from "juice" it was Careless Kevin or was it Casual Kevin. cant remember now.


Would this be a more palatable comparison Oiler fans to what Nurse is?

 

[FreeMcdavid]

He scored 40 points in 2018-19 and paced for 38 this past year.

In terms of 5v5 points, he's 7th in the entire league over the past 3 years behind Carlson, Josi, Burns, Karlsson, Rielly, and Barrie.

Again, unless your trading Mcdavid and Draii with Nurse, then Nurse isnt going to get anywhere near 40 points for a team. He just doesnt have the skillset.

GMs will have the forsite and knowledge of this. If a Gm wants to trade for Nurse it will be because of his physical tools and toughness, its not going to be for his offensive abilities which is supposodle that of a 40 point dman

 

[Soundwave]

wActually you know what, now that ive mentioned it,

I will retract my Gurdbranson comparison with Nurse. I do believe Nurse has more offensive capabilities than Gudbranson.

I do however like the Kevin Bieksa comparison to Nurse

- tough as nails
-excellent skaters
- flashes of offensive game
- played lots of minutes tho not top pairing player and more of a #3-4 Tweener
-Played with league MVPs in their prime
- questionable decision making abilities
- always an adventure on the defensive end or when they had the puck
Bieksa actually had a nickname aside from "juice" it was Careless Kevin or was it Casual Kevin. cant remember now.


Would this be a more palatable comparison Oiler fans to what Nurse is?

I don't agree with the last point, the advanced metrics show Nurse is extremely high end at skating/carry the puck out of the defensive zone.

The NHL’s Top Puck Movers and Puck Transporters

While he may not have the greatest outlet pass, when he has the puck on his stick he is a horse skating it out, by far the best Oilers D-Man in those areas.

0.48 PPG the last two years for a d-man is not "flashes of an offensive game" ... that means if he got the top unit PP time and loaded up on McGravy points you're probably talking 45-50+ points.

How Klefbom only managed 0.5 ppg despite getting most of the top unit PP time and Nurse is only at 0.48 ppg (barely behind him) and even has more goals scored the two last years is hard to ignore.

Nurse's main issues are when play breaks down in the zone he can get himself out of position or in bad positions defensively at times and a lack of creativity offensively. When a situation is predictable and by the book he more or less knows what to do, but when multiple things break down quickly he can get himself into trouble. But you can the same for many d-men. He's not terrible but that's where his decision making sometimes suffers. When the puck is on his stick though that's not a problem. He has a good capability to carry the puck out.

He is a more old school type of d-man (90s/2000s era) with high end skating ability. That type of player can still play though.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Massively undervalued by some Oiler fans. Great skating just entering peak years defender who adds shutdown capabilities, physical and greasy game, leadership attributes and a forty point NHL season under his belt. Nurse is a cornerstone on the Oilers developing leadership core and team. Going nowhere despite some dumb fan attempts to peddle him off for the most easy to find roster spots of top six wing. He's challenged like the great majority of players when given too many minutes (22-25) which can unravel some bad decision making. Solid all around toolkit but Nurse will develop his best path focused as a physically imposing shutdown d-man as the Oilers young defense matures with other more natural PP and puck distributors.

 

[DropTheGloves]

Guess you dont understand what "potential in any given season " means

It’s so vague a term as to be useless. Did the Leafs get a player with PPG potential for $700K because Thornton had 82 in 2016?

TT has been on some bad LA Kings the last few years.

He can easily hit 30 goals with Mcdavid.

He had 6 goals in 10 games with Pettersson

That’s nice, but it doesn’t automatically give him 30-goal value.

Are you suggesting that TT is not a top 6 forward?

I am suggesting he’s not worth Nurse, as are others.

 

[FreeMcdavid]

It’s so vague a term as to be useless. Did the Leafs get a player with PPG potential for $700K because Thornton had 82 in 2016?



That’s nice, but it doesn’t automatically give him 30-goal value.



I am suggesting he’s not worth Nurse, as are others.

Tofolli is exactly what he is worth according to this thread and OP.

OP asked for a top 6 winger. TT is exactly that.

 

[DropTheGloves]

If a Gm wants to trade for Nurse it will be because of his physical tools and toughness, its not going to be for his offensive abilities which is supposodle that of a 40 point dman

Wait a minute, what happened to trading for potential results based on past production? You didn’t just forget the very thing you were just trying to argue, did you?

 

[FreeMcdavid]

Kevin Labanc and a mid pick would be fair value as well

Tyler Bertuzzi?

 

[Soundwave]

Hoffman, Duclair, possibly Galchenyuk could score 30 goals with McDavid too. Kahun maybe 25.

They're just sitting on the open market.

Wingers are not really a hard position to upgrade on.

Once the Oilers place Klefbom on LTIR they probably have some room to go acquire someone as the season goes on or right at the start of the season if they really want to.

 

[FreeMcdavid]

Hoffman, Duclair, possibly Galchenyuk could score 30 goals with McDavid too. Kahun maybe 25.

They're just sitting on the open market.

Wingers are not really a hard position to upgrade on.

Once the Oilers place Klefbom on LTIR they probably have some room to go acquire someone as the season goes on or right at the start of the season if they really want to.

Canucks got Nate Schmidt for a 3rd

Avs got Towes for 2 2nds.


2021-2022 UFA Dmean include

Seth Jones
Morgan Rielly
Parayko
Leddy
Ekholm
Ristolainen
Lindholm
Dougie Hamilton
David Savard
Montour
Oleksiak
Edler

just to name a few

 

[Soundwave]

Canucks got Nate Schmidt for a 3rd

Avs got Towes for 2 2nds.


2021-2022 UFA Dmean include

Seth Jones
Morgan Rielly
Parayko
Leddy
Ekholm
Ristolainen
Lindholm
Dougie Hamilton
David Savard
Montour
Oleksiak
Edler

just to name a few

Great the Oilers can take a look at some of those players, but that is not a normal off-season for D either. Oilers will have some cap flexibility next year, quite frankly moving Klefbom to cheap team that wants LTIR savings or letting Seattle take him makes far more sense than moving Nurse.

 

[DropTheGloves]

Tofolli is exactly what he is worth according to this thread and OP.

OP asked for a top 6 winger. TT is exactly that.

So are McDavid and Krejci equal in value because both are “top six centres”?

 

[TFHockey]

Again, unless your trading Mcdavid and Draii with Nurse, then Nurse isnt going to get anywhere near 40 points for a team. He just doesnt have the skillset.

GMs will have the forsite and knowledge of this. If a Gm wants to trade for Nurse it will be because of his physical tools and toughness, its not going to be for his offensive abilities which is supposodle that of a 40 point dman

Nurse did that with next to no PP time. I don't know why you think he is worth a 2nd line winger.

 

[FreeMcdavid]

So are McDavid and Krejci equal in value because both are “top six centres”?

Top 6 wingers are more so 3-4-5-6

Top line players are 1-2-3

Then Elite

Then Franchise

Then Generational

So no Kreicji and Mcdavid are not the same.

 

[McFlash97]

I dont think anybody watches Nurse play and thinks, thats a consistent 40 point Dman.

He had it once and it took a year in which Mcdavid and Drai both had over 100 pts.

Thats absurd. He isnt getting close to 40 points on any other team.

That would be like me saying Kevin Bieksa is a 40 point Dman. though its factually true, he even did it twice

It would not be accurate to describe the way he played as an offensive "40 point" dman. He did it when the Sedin Twins were about to, or at their prime and absoloutely dominated. The rest of his career he averaged I think 20-25 points a year.

Nurse also isnt a 25 point defenseman.

Hes more gifted then Bieksa

 

[Fatass]

Canucks got Nate Schmidt for a 3rd

Avs got Towes for 2 2nds.


2021-2022 UFA Dmean include

Seth Jones
Morgan Rielly
Parayko
Leddy
Ekholm
Ristolainen
Lindholm
Dougie Hamilton
David Savard
Montour
Oleksiak
Edler

just to name a few

Imagine one team getting both Reilly and Parayko. Hello top pair D, that’s maybe the best in the league.

 

[Soundwave]

Seth Jones being available next summer is someone the Oilers should definitely look at.

They have the cap room to go after him and his brother plays for the Oilers.

 

[snipes]

wActually you know what, now that ive mentioned it,

I will retract my Gurdbranson comparison with Nurse. I do believe Nurse has more offensive capabilities than Gudbranson.

I do however like the Kevin Bieksa comparison to Nurse

- tough as nails
-excellent skaters
- flashes of offensive game
- played lots of minutes tho not top pairing player and more of a #3-4 Tweener
-Played with league MVPs in their prime
- questionable decision making abilities
- always an adventure on the defensive end or when they had the puck
Bieksa actually had a nickname aside from "juice" it was Careless Kevin or was it Casual Kevin. cant remember now.


Would this be a more palatable comparison Oiler fans to what Nurse is?

A bigger and better skating Bieksa isn’t a bad comparison actually.

Bieksa was a very good player in his peak. We haven’t even really seen Nurses peak yet, D men take longer to develop but typically have a later and longer peak than forwards.

 

[Soundwave]

A bigger and better skating Bieksa isn’t a bad comparison actually.

Bieksa was a very good player in his peak. We haven’t even really seen Nurses peak yet, D men take longer to develop but typically have a later and longer peak than forwards.

Hated the dude, but yeah Bieksa in his prime was a big part of that era Canucks that had success, some of his seasons are borderline All-Star worthy. If Nurse is that tier of d-man + but with higher end puck transporting/skating ability ... that's not bad at all.