Player Discussion Danton Heinen III

[sportsvg]

I don’t expect Chara to have the same leash as the rooks. I also expect him to make less mistakes. We don’t always get what we want.

Marchand may very well have made a play on that puck. He’s faster than Heinen, nastier, and one of the Top 10 F’s in the league. So, probably not the best comparison.

Well you brought up the size argument to defend the play. And you’re right marchy is better and makes the play more often but that doesn’t mean Heinen can’t make that play ever and shouldn’t give effort. I’d bet if you had a straight line race in practice Heinen and marchy would be really close but you add in a defenceman and a race to the puck and marchy wins every time , the difference comes in the nastiness you mention and he needs more of it to become a better player.

Either way it’s one play but seems to have triggered a lot of reaction from everyone and hopefully he keeps up his recent good play, I think that kid line has potential.

 

[The don godfather]

Danton is now playing like a 4th round pick. Send him down bring senyshyn .

 

[Blowfish]

Danton is now playing like a 4th round pick. Send him down bring senyshyn .

Gotta believe Don is trying to make room for some players from Providence to finally play. Too many players are protected by waiver rights.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Gotta believe Don is trying to make room for some players from Providence to finally play. Too many players are protected by waiver rights.

I don’t think this is the case at all

Don is not going to trade Heinen or other non waiver exempt players to make room on the roster for Providence players.

If Heinen goes, it will be for an upgrade, not an AHL/NHL tweener.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Danton is now playing like a 4th round pick. Send him down bring senyshyn .

For the millionth time...they aren’t going to send Heinen down to lose him for nothing on waivers.

Doh.

 

[Blowfish]

I don’t think this is the case at all

Don is not going to trade Heinen or other non waiver exempt players to make room on the roster for Providence players.

If Heinen goes, it will be for an upgrade, not an AHL/NHL tweener.

Yup we disagree. Some options in Providence that can step in and be upgrades over low production bottom 9. CertiNly can’t be any worse. Agree a Don trade will pick up a top 6 player(s) but also move out the deadweight.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Well you brought up the size argument to defend the play. And you’re right marchy is better and makes the play more often but that doesn’t mean Heinen can’t make that play ever and shouldn’t give effort. I’d bet if you had a straight line race in practice Heinen and marchy would be really close but you add in a defenceman and a race to the puck and marchy wins every time , the difference comes in the nastiness you mention and he needs more of it to become a better player.

Either way it’s one play but seems to have triggered a lot of reaction from everyone and hopefully he keeps up his recent good play, I think that kid line has potential.

You are underselling Marchand’s speed big time here. There is no way that Heinen would be close to Marchand in a race. Heinen is an average NHL skater and Marchand is above average.

The key to that forecheck is getting on top of Risto quicker, and Heinen doesn’t have that kind of speed. It’s why he has to be smarter with his angles and positioning. Him not making the play there had way more to do with a lack of speed than a lack of effort or desire.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Yup we disagree. Some options in Providence that can step in and be upgrades over low production bottom 9. CertiNly can’t be any worse. Agree a Don trade will pick up a top 6 player(s) but also move out the deadweight.

Other teams don’t want the B’s “dead weight”. If Heinen goes, that spot is going to a Schenn or Toffoli, not Cehlarik. And it will push a guy like Backes down to the bottom 6, not make room for an AHL guy.

 

[The don godfather]

For the millionth time...they aren’t going to send Heinen down to lose him for nothing on waivers.

Doh.

It's gonna be a hard sell for Donny to get anything of value now. Just bench him for a few games and hope he get a fire under his ....

 

[sportsvg]

You are underselling Marchand’s speed big time here. There is no way that Heinen would be close to Marchand in a race. Heinen is an average NHL skater and Marchand is above average.

The key to that forecheck is getting on top of Risto quicker, and Heinen doesn’t have that kind of speed. It’s why he has to be smarter with his angles and positioning. Him not making the play there had way more to do with a lack of speed than a lack of effort or desire.

As a Heinen fan I think you're underselling Heinen, I think he is fully capable of getting on top of Risto there and I'm pretty sure the coaching staff think so too. If he doesn't have the physical ability to even make an attempt to make he has no business as a top 6 forward in the NHL. Personally I think he can be a top 6 forward and he can make that play. I think the straight line speed difference of a Marchand and a Heinen would be a lot less than most people think, on a play like that the difference is desire/puck pursuit and identifying situations which are all areas Marchand is miles ahead of Heinen (and most other players in the league) and areas Heinen needs to work on to be a long term top line forward.

 

[PB37]

It's gonna be a hard sell for Donny to get anything of value now. Just bench him for a few games and hope he get a fire under his ....

He's 23 and just put up 47 points as a rookie. Struggling as a sophmore, but to say he wouldn't fetch anything of value is a ridiculous. Too many posters around here are impatient with young players.

 

[Dupell6]

He's 23 and just put up 47 points as a rookie. Struggling as a sophmore, but to say he wouldn't fetch anything of value is a ridiculous. Too many posters around here are impatient with young players.

Nailed it. This has classic sophomore slump written all over it. If the bruins are trading this guy I hope it's for something more than a schenn or a coyle.

 

[The don godfather]

He's 23 and just put up 47 points as a rookie. Struggling as a sophmore, but to say he wouldn't fetch anything of value is a ridiculous. Too many posters around here are impatient with young players.

Agreed but we have to sell him high. At 4 goals nobody is gonna pay a good return. Or we keep him and ride with him . Benching a few games is not a bad idea cause right now he can't put a beachball in a Olympic pool at the moment.

 

[Number8]

Nailed it. This has classic sophomore slump written all over it. If the bruins are trading this guy I hope it's for something more than a schenn or a coyle.

With all due respect, that is not true. Here's his three season numbers (1st just a few games, 2nd split into pre and post AS break, and 3rd to date):

-- '17/'18: 8 games. 0G/0A/0 Total. Not worth considering. Young player getting his first taste of big leagues.

-- '18/'19 Pre AS Break: 43 games. 11G/22A/33 Total. Projects to a 63 point season. Excellent. Why we all got so excited.

-- '18/'19 Post AS Break: 34 games. 5G/9A/14 Total. Projects to 34 point season. Not bad at all. Maybe hitting wall a bit.

-- '19 playoffs: 9 games. 1G/0A/1 Total. Not good but first playoffs are learning curve, and maybe rookie has really hit wall.

-- '19/'20 Pre AS Break: 40 Games. 4G/6A/10 Total. Projects to 21 point season. Nothing special and now definitely trending in wrong direction.

And let's face it, he was a non factor in the playoffs. Again, that's not a sleight on a rookie, but so far his play this season does nothing to suggest that he'll be any factor this season if he dresses.

I don't want to project bad things, but Heinen is beginning to appear as a player who caught fire in a bottle but is settling down into a Riley Nash type player. Don't get me wrong, Riley Nash's of the League serve a purpose but they are not the type of player to lose sleep over.

My guess is Cassidy's concern (using those video clips we've been discussing) is that Riley Nash would have made Ristoleinen a little more uncomfortable. And if the reasoning is that Heinen doesn't have speed to make a more purposeful play there, that's not a selling point as a player.

He seems like a nice kid, but he needs to do something to be more of a clear factor beyond good defensive positioning. If we had two plus lines that poured in 5 on 5 goals steadily maybe that would be ok. But we don't -- so defensively responsible but offensively anaemic play is of limited use.

It may not be in his "personality" or comfort level, but if I'm head coach I'm looking for some intensity. If I'm GM, I'm not overly worried about trading him.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

With all due respect, that is not true. Here's his three season numbers (1st just a few games, 2nd split into pre and post AS break, and 3rd to date):

-- '17/'18: 8 games. 0G/0A/0 Total. Not worth considering. Young player getting his first taste of big leagues.

-- '18/'19 Pre AS Break: 43 games. 11G/22A/33 Total. Projects to a 63 point season. Excellent. Why we all got so excited.

-- '18/'19 Post AS Break: 34 games. 5G/9A/14 Total. Projects to 34 point season. Not bad at all. Maybe hitting wall a bit.

-- '19 playoffs: 9 games. 1G/0A/1 Total. Not good but first playoffs are learning curve, and maybe rookie has really hit wall.

-- '19/'20 Pre AS Break: 40 Games. 4G/6A/10 Total. Projects to 21 point season. Nothing special and now definitely trending in wrong direction.

And let's face it, he was a non factor in the playoffs. Again, that's not a sleight on a rookie, but so far his play this season does nothing to suggest that he'll be any factor this season if he dresses.

I don't want to project bad things, but Heinen is beginning to appear as a player who caught fire in a bottle but is settling down into a Riley Nash type player. Don't get me wrong, Riley Nash's of the League serve a purpose but they are not the type of player to lose sleep over.

My guess is Cassidy's concern (using those video clips we've been discussing) is that Riley Nash would have made Ristoleinen a little more uncomfortable. And if the reasoning is that Heinen doesn't have speed to make a more purposeful play there, that's not a selling point as a player.

He seems like a nice kid, but he needs to do something to be more of a clear factor beyond good defensive positioning. If we had two plus lines that poured in 5 on 5 goals steadily maybe that would be ok. But we don't -- so defensively responsible but offensively anaemic play is of limited use.

It may not be in his "personality" or comfort level, but if I'm head coach I'm looking for some intensity. If I'm GM, I'm not overly worried about trading him.

So he didn’t have 47 pts in 77 games last year? I’m confused. Also, since when is one year a “trend”?

You could take a lot of NHL players, break their seasons into two halves and there would be a large discrepancy in the production.

I have already said multiple times, I would totally understand moving Heinen for an upgrade. I don’t consider a 30+ year old rental or Martin Frk (from Sarge in the trade thread) an upgrade.

Classic case of selling low.

 

[Number8]

So he didn’t have 47 pts in 77 games last year? I’m confused. Also, since when is one year a “trend”?

You could take a lot of NHL players, break their seasons into two halves and there would be a large discrepancy in the production.

I have already said multiple times, I would totally understand moving Heinen for an upgrade. I don’t consider a 30+ year old rental or Martin Frk (from Sarge in the trade thread) an upgrade.

Classic case of selling low.

Don’t get me wrong.... I just think he’s been trending down hard for some time now.

What do I know? I just worry that torrid start to last year was less indicative of what he’s capable of than what we’ve seen of late. Since last AS break he’s had 70+ NHL games of pretty modest output. Many were surmising he hit rookie wall last year — which of course happens. Unfortunately that’s continued through half a season this year as well.

I’m not saying he’s a bust, just that if the B’s can use him as means of upgrading where we need it then we should do it without fear he’ll be one we regret losing.

I am not suggesting we move him for scraps. Not by any means.

 

[Blowfish]

Don’t get me wrong.... I just think he’s been trending down hard for some time now.

What do I know? I just worry that torrid start to last year was less indicative of what he’s capable of than what we’ve seen of late. Since last AS break he’s had 70+ NHL games of pretty modest output. Many were surmising he hit rookie wall last year — which of course happens. Unfortunately that’s continued through half a season this year as well.

I’m not saying he’s a bust, just that if the B’s can use him as means of upgrading where we need it then we should do it without fear he’ll be one we regret losing.

I am not suggesting we move him for scraps. Not by any means.

Any increase in production the next few weeks will be welcomed/will help improve on scraps otherwise he will need to be packaged with something of more significance from the bruins.

 

[Oates2Neely]

It's gonna be a hard sell for Donny to get anything of value now. Just bench him for a few games and hope he get a fire under his ....

That’s a ridiculous statement

 

[Montecristo]

I was a big proponent of selling on heinen in the offseason when he was coming off of a 47 point season. Now I’m not sure if it would be worth moving him unless a team is willing to give the value he would have been at this offseason.

 

[KnightofBoston]

Danton is now playing like a 4th round pick. Send him down bring senyshyn .

Here’s the thing

Senyshyn is still working on his ability to stay on the puck especially along the wall and corners

Heinen is pretty good at that, and will occasionally show flashes of eriksson like defensive savvy, recently these moments have been turning into offensive chances

Now, you could argue that; damn the defensive awareness and ability to use his body to protect and win pucks, we need goals, especially in light of the extended leash Donato has been given. But more often than not, players that aren’t ready, particularly physically, don’t score either.

Senyshyn will get his time. We also often forget there are roster and movement restrictions that stop gm’s from just moving people up and down everytime they feel like it

 

[Gordon Lightfoot]

Hey, there he goes! Beautiful redirection/tip!

 

[NiftyWasNasty]

The kid is on a short leash for good reason, particularly when it comes to top line minutes.

I thought the first two shifts where meh...nothing note worthy good or bad. The offsides was bad, really bad.

The puck had been cleared but Chara knocks it down at center and looks for transition. He has time, Bergeron and Pastrnak hustled to clear the zone while UDenver worked his way out along the left boards. As Bergy and Pasta clear Chara sends the pass up the left boards towards he slumping sophomore.

Being a left handed player, playing along the left boards the correct play here would have been to stop with his feet straddling the line and his back side against the boards. His stick should have been in the zone and he should have let the puck enter the zone before catching it, the pass was going to be onsides.

Instead he left the zone completely before stopping and his line mates jumped. But stopping the puck early was only half of the headache, he then decides to follow them and cause the offsides. Once he made the mistake of exiting the zone he needed to find a possession play while everyone cleared the zone.

He is on a short leash and he was playing on the top line, no room for squandering quality chances with unforced mental errors.

I bet he has a good game tonight...seems to like playing with his younger collegiate brothers.

 

[The don godfather]

He's alive he's alive . I saw that in some black and white Frankenstein movie.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

The kid is on a short leash for good reason, particularly when it comes to top line minutes.

I thought the first two shifts where meh...nothing note worthy good or bad. The offsides was bad, really bad.

The puck had been cleared but Chara knocks it down at center and looks for transition. He has time, Bergeron and Pastrnak hustled to clear the zone while UDenver worked his way out along the left boards. As Bergy and Pasta clear Chara sends the pass up the left boards towards he slumping sophomore.

Being a left handed player, playing along the left boards the correct play here would have been to stop with his feet straddling the line and his back side against the boards. His stick should have been in the zone and he should have let the puck enter the zone before catching it, the pass was going to be onsides.

Instead he left the zone completely before stopping and his line mates jumped. But stopping the puck early was only half of the headache, he then decides to follow them and cause the offsides. Once he made the mistake of exiting the zone he needed to find a possession play while everyone cleared the zone.

He is on a short leash and he was playing on the top line, no room for squandering quality chances with unforced mental errors.

I bet he has a good game tonight...seems to like playing with his younger collegiate brothers.

You are so far off on this it’s not even funny. No argument that Heinen has been gripping the stick too tight, but the play you are referencing was 200% on Chara not on Heinen.

As soon as Chara got the puck Pasta and Bergeron both headed for the offensive zone. The proper play there was for Chara to immediately send a hard dump into the zone to wrap around behind the net. Pasta was on his horse and would have picked it up with Bergeron also low in the zone.

Instead, Chara dangled, and then flipped it to Heinen. He tried to get it into the zone quickly, but regardless of how he handled that puck Pasta was already about 10-15 feet inside the zone. The second Chara held onto that puck he (not Heinen) killed the play.

Heinen is having a hard enough time getting it going without getting blamed for stuff that was clearly on another player.

 

[PB37]

I'd have no issue at all if Heinen " only " ends up being a 15 goal/40 point high end third line defensive forward. That's still a solid player that is young and cost controlled for the foreseeable future.