Denmark: Danish Prospects

[kabidjan18]

No, my question still stands, I wrote this as Blichfeld was called up.
I am not talking about the current situation, but Danish hockey development.

U18 loosing 7-3 to friggin Hungary, with several other losses.
U20 looking bad in div 1.

and U16 not looking strong either.

Sure there is almquist, but he has slipped far down, not going to get drafted high.

Sure Denmark have been spoiled, but imo, it is valid to question the situation they are in. They failed to grab the momentum and run with it.

I know the old team Demmark boss has said the same thing.

So, my timing is as it should be, Blichfeld playing an NHL game has nothing to do with what I wrote tbh.

If you're going to be a fan of a mid-major hockey nation you'll just have to accept the fact that dry spells happen. And they're not just one year or two years. Serious and significant dry spells happen with all the mid-majors. If you want to cheer for some team that pumps out prospects every year, cheer for Sweden. Mid-majors disappoint. They take steps forward, they regress. You could either choose to see the golden moments as beautiful, or you could focus on the negative.

 

[QuietContrarian]

If you're going to be a fan of a mid-major hockey nation you'll just have to accept the fact that dry spells happen. And they're not just one year or two years. Serious and significant dry spells happen with all the mid-majors. If you want to cheer for some team that pumps out prospects every year, cheer for Sweden. Mid-majors disappoint. They take steps forward, they regress. You could either choose to see the golden moments as beautiful, or you could focus on the negative.

Well as a Canadian I have Canada, but I live in Denmark, and I am
baffled by the momentum loss.

Taking steps back is one thing, this is just crazy steps back.

It is not being negative to speculate why.

 

[Justinov]

What has happened to Danish hockey?
U16 lost to Norway, U20 lost to Latvia and Austria and barely beat Slovenia in OT.

U18 are behind against Hungary - And the last many games also seem to be losses or less impressive wins....

Very big fall from grace, and not really any NHL players in the pipeline, now that Almquist has slipped down the draft lists..

This is purely speculation:
For years Danish hockey was a "family business" where sons of formers players developed an attitude towards their sport, which in many respects are quite unusual for Danish youth sports.
Rødovre for instance with an almost Russian attitude to hard work and sacrifice...
With the media success a Danish hockey maybe there has been an influx of more kids wanting to try out hockey, but from families who expect a "normal" Danish attitude that you are supposed to have "fun".
Could it be that to accommodate for more players the development have suffered - perhaps not on the technical aspects, but on the psychological level?

Then again as our prospect pool is quite small you are bound to see ups and downs as the difference between success years and failure years which are measure by the very few high end talent.
If the trend of bad results for our U16/U18 continues for a streak of years then it is more worrisome; but we had 3 drafted in 2016, 2 in 2017 and 2 in 2019 which actually is pretty good.
Is it because we are getting worse, or are these nations getting better with their youth development?

 

[QuietContrarian]

This is purely speculation:
For years Danish hockey was a "family business" where sons of formers players developed an attitude towards their sport, which in many respects are quite unusual for Danish youth sports.
Rødovre for instance with an almost Russian attitude to hard work and sacrifice...
With the media success a Danish hockey maybe there has been an influx of more kids wanting to try out hockey, but from families who expect a "normal" Danish attitude that you are supposed to have "fun".
Could it be that to accommodate for more players the development have suffered - perhaps not on the technical aspects, but on the psychological level?

Then again as our prospect pool is quite small you are bound to see ups and downs as the difference between success years and failure years which are measure by the very few high end talent.
If the trend of bad results for our U16/U18 continues for a streak of years then it is more worrisome; but we had 3 drafted in 2016, 2 in 2017 and 2 in 2019 which actually is pretty good.
Is it because we are getting worse, or are these nations getting better with their youth development?

What is speculation?
That outside Almquist there are no real NHL talents in the pipeline?
Sure doesn’t look like it atm.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree, I am of the opinion that down years are possible, but this is not just a down year.

U20 are going down a div. To a level they have not been in ages.
Loosing at every level to teams that barely have a hockey program etc.

I stand by my statement, that DIU has failed big time here.
Like I said, I know people in the system who think the same.

Like the former head of TD.

It is a mentality thing, for sure. And Imo it goes deeper than talent development.
I would not dare bring that up here tho.

 

[Bagge]

What is speculation?
That outside Almquist there are no real NHL talents in the pipeline?
Sure doesn’t look like it atm.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree, I am of the opinion that down years are possible, but this is not just a down year.

U20 are going down a div. To a level they have not been in ages.
Loosing at every level to teams that barely have a hockey program etc.

I stand by my statement, that DIU has failed big time here.
Like I said, I know people in the system who think the same.

Like the former head of TD.

It is a mentality thing, for sure. And Imo it goes deeper than talent development.
I would not dare bring that up here tho.

Its not DIUs task to build rinks. Thats the local governments.

FYI many of the minor hockeynations have studied our youth program for a decade now and some of them have taken some notes. Hungary have been on the rise for a decade and the pure number of hockey rinks in Hungary should tell you a thing or two. I dont see what you see for sure and just because we dont have a clear talent waiting in the pipeline doesnt mean that one will not arrise.

It was said by all experts in both Denmark and abroad that we would see a heavily slump in talent getting drafted to NHL, for that simple reason that 2007-2013 was extraordinary good compared to the number of people actually playing.

Nevertheless, have a merry xmas all.

 

[kabidjan18]

National federations have very little power. In fact, in a national hockey infrastructure they are one of the least significant players. Local governments build the ice rinks. Clubs and club sponsors create youth programs and develop professional opportunities. Local agents and scouts facilitate player relocation, which also improves player development. Occasionally, individual investors will also create hockey programs. These all have significantly greater impact than federations.

Federations facilitate coaching certification. They organize referee licensing. I don't want to downplay these functions, but they're significantly less important than the other branches of a national hockey infrastructure. But the main job of the federation president is to be really good at soliciting sponsorship from large corporations for hockey projects. Typically, when a country succeeds it has little to do with the actions of the federation, and when it fails there was likely little the federation could have done to prevent the result.

 

[Bagge]

National federations have very little power. In fact, in a national hockey infrastructure they are one of the least significant players. Local governments build the ice rinks. Clubs and club sponsors create youth programs and develop professional opportunities. Local agents and scouts facilitate player relocation, which also improves player development. Occasionally, individual investors will also create hockey programs. These all have significantly greater impact than federations.

Federations facilitate coaching certification. They organize referee licensing. I don't want to downplay these functions, but they're significantly less important than the other branches of a national hockey infrastructure. But the main job of the federation president is to be really good at soliciting sponsorship from large corporations for hockey projects. Typically, when a country succeeds it has little to do with the actions of the federation, and when it fails there was likely little the federation could have done to prevent the result.

I agree 100 %

 

[QuietContrarian]

Never said it was DIUs task to build hockey rinks, but it damn well is their task to lobby the sport of hockey to local governments, and at that, they have failed.

I disagree that federations have little tp do with the success of a nation - Look at Belgium and football. Pre 2005 they were avg. At best. but in the late 90s the federation took steps to streamline talent develoment and the different U levels, and 20 years later they are a top footballing nation.
They called it “The red line”.

Maybe it is a difference of culture, but I could not as a Dane be happy with the setbacks of this scale.

 

[SoundAndFury]

What is "this scale"? If you want to see a real setback, look at Norway. Denmark is doing fine. You can't expect hockey nation this small to turn their absolute peek into what's expected on average in 10 years. You make a big deal out of U20s being where they haven't been in ages but "ages" is actually 5 years. There is a tense competition at this level, only 2 nations have won U20 D1A twice since its creation, can you really say Denmark hockey is so much head and shoulders above Austria, Belarus or Latvia that losing to them once in 5 years is such a big deal?

If Denmark gets relegated to D1B, like Norway or France did, sure, let's make it into a big deal because it definitely shows the program as a whole is slipping. But it's not going to happen because you already have a kid who carries your U20 team at age 16.

Also, in general, the tendency is and is going to be that those former USSR nations (Kazakhstan, Belarus, Latvia, maybe even Ukraine, eventually) that used to be really good at hockey and had outside events disrupt them heavily, will start catching up with Norway and Denmark as their economy started pulsing again. So Denmark having to battle it out in that 8-14 level of international hockey will become much more of a norm than it being on top of this group.

You give Belgium as an example in football but at the same time, ignore the same instances in hockey. Look at Belarus as a clear example. Hockey is the number 1 sport there and every village has its rink. You forget that as recent as 06/07 Latvia had 4 players in the NHL, Belarus had 4, Kazakhstan had 2, Lithuania had 2, Ukraine had 2, Austria had 2, Denmark had.. 2. Both at the very beginning of their careers. Year before, Denmark had 0. So it's amazing Denmark has created such a gap between themselves and those other nations in recent years but it's silly to think those were never going to bounce back. Especially when locally, Danish hockey is really nothing to write home about.

 

[Bagge]

Alexander True got his longwaited debut last night and did well. I hope he gets an extented look so he can have time to adapt to the higher speed and skills. Havent watched the game, but reports suggests he did what he was supposed to do, playing 3rd line center.

Another two NHL players this year......we are getting spoiled insanely with high end talent (for Denmark) the last two decades. Hopefully it gets more youngsters into hockey.

It also looks like Frans Nielsens carreer in NHl might come to an end sooner than his contract suggests. I cant see him playing in NHL next season to be honest. A year or two in SHL to finish off a glorious career would be my guess.

 

[singlesliceofcheese]

Does anyone know anything about Anton Linde? He's playing in the U-20 league as a 13 y/o w/ a 2 pp/g average. This seems like kind of a big deal to me, but I could be wrong.

 

[Valdemar]

Does anyone know anything about Anton Linde? He's playing in the U-20 league as a 13 y/o w/ a 2 pp/g average. This seems like kind of a big deal to me, but I could be wrong.

I believe it is dangerous to conclude anything after only 2 games played, but with that said, yes he is likely the best forward prospect we have since Marcus Almquist.

 

[Bagge]

Does anyone know anything about Anton Linde? He's playing in the U-20 league as a 13 y/o w/ a 2 pp/g average. This seems like kind of a big deal to me, but I could be wrong.

I know that he is already taller than Almqvist

 

[Bagge]

I believe it is dangerous to conclude anything after only 2 games played, but with that said, yes he is likely the best forward prospect we have since Marcus Almquist.

I wouldnt write off Anton Stenbakken. The steps he has taken the last 12 months is a pleasent surprise.

 

[Valdemar]

I wouldnt write off Anton Stenbakken. The steps he has taken the last 12 months is a pleasent surprise.

You are absolutely right, I have also high hopes for Anton, that is why i wrote forward prospect (you probably missed that part). There are also some very good prospects born 2005. Actually I believe the U16 team next could be really good, like the best we have seen the last 5-6 years. I hope to be able to stream some games from the U15 DM (danish championship) next month, like we could last year, there are so many great players to look out for.

 

[Valdemar]

Here are some stats and info. on Anton Linde for those who like that:

Elected best forward at the U13 Danish Championship last year. 20 goals and 7 assists in 7 games (9 points ahead of the no. 2 on the list).

This year (as a U14 player):
U15 East regular season: 40 goals and 22 assists in 11 games. Impressive PPG but some teams in the tournament are really weak and he is playing on a top team. In one game his team Rødovre won 35-0. Personally he made 12 of those goals and also had 6 assists. This tournament is still ongoing.

U17 East regular season: 3 goals and 1 assists in 5 games. This tournament has ended.

U17 Elite (best 6 teams from regular season): 8 goals and 2 assists in 5 games. At the moment there are only 3 players ahead of him on the top scorer list and they are all 3 years older than him. This tournament is still ongoing.

 

[Bagge]

You are absolutely right, I have also high hopes for Anton, that is why i wrote forward prospect (you probably missed that part). There are also some very good prospects born 2005. Actually I believe the U16 team next could be really good, like the best we have seen the last 5-6 years. I hope to be able to stream some games from the U15 DM (danish championship) next month, like we could last year, there are so many great players to look out for.

yeah sorry, I missed that part

Generally I really like what is coming out of Rødovre right now. They might not be on top on the senior level, but the youth teams are spitting out high end talent left and right.

 

[singlesliceofcheese]

Thanks for the info, friends! Always love tracking the Danes

 

[canucklax]

Wanted to chime in again on Jonas Brondberg now that the season is over. He ended up getting ranked 115th for NA skaters by central scouting which I would think projects as a 5th round pick or later, with a fair chance to go undrafted. He impressed in Portland though, finishing with 22 points in 50 games, good for 3rd amongst defensemen on our team while playing both special teams units. He seemed to quickly adjust to the smaller rink size, and quickly gained the trust of the coaching staff. He was steady and reliable for us, but I dont know if he has a standout skill to really make the NHL but can definitely see a productive career as an AHLer or European pro.

 

[Valdemar]

Thank you for keeping us informed about Jonas Brondberg. Much appreciated!

 

[canucklax]

Thank you for keeping us informed about Jonas Brondberg. Much appreciated!

Happy to give an opinion. I've definitely got a soft spot for Danish hockey after all the success we've had with our imports here in Portland, I hope our pipeline continues in the future.

 

[Theokritos]

Two Danish players drafted in 2020 CHL Import Draft:

Kasper Larsen (D, Rødovre) picked #19 by Mississauga Steelheads (OHL)
Marcus Almquist (RW, HV71/Sweden) picked #27 Royals (WHL)

 

[Valdemar]

Two Danish players drafted in 2020 CHL Import Draft:

Kasper Larsen (D, Rødovre) picked #19 by Mississauga Steelheads (OHL)
Marcus Almquist (RW, HV71/Sweden) picked #27 Royals (WHL)

That is very high picks and very unusual for Danish natives. I believe we need to go back to the 2006 draft to find two danish players picked in the top 30, when Kirill Starkov was selected as no. 8 and Morten Madsen was selected as no. 10. Morten Madsen only played one season in Victoriaville Tigres but made an impressive 100 points.

I think we will see Kasper Larsen playing for Mississauga Steelheads next season. It also seems like the right move for him since he is still playing in Denmark. Marcus Almquist will most likely continue playing in Sweden. He is already playing for a good team and will probably benefit the most from staying.

 

[Valdemar]

According to this article I was right about my conjecture. According to that Kasper Larsen will be playing for Mississauga Steelheads next season, and Marcus Almquist will stay at least another year at HV71 (SWE).

 

[QuietContrarian]

What is "this scale"? If you want to see a real setback, look at Norway. Denmark is doing fine. You can't expect hockey nation this small to turn their absolute peek into what's expected on average in 10 years. You make a big deal out of U20s being where they haven't been in ages but "ages" is actually 5 years. There is a tense competition at this level, only 2 nations have won U20 D1A twice since its creation, can you really say Denmark hockey is so much head and shoulders above Austria, Belarus or Latvia that losing to them once in 5 years is such a big deal?

If Denmark gets relegated to D1B, like Norway or France did, sure, let's make it into a big deal because it definitely shows the program as a whole is slipping. But it's not going to happen because you already have a kid who carries your U20 team at age 16.

Also, in general, the tendency is and is going to be that those former USSR nations (Kazakhstan, Belarus, Latvia, maybe even Ukraine, eventually) that used to be really good at hockey and had outside events disrupt them heavily, will start catching up with Norway and Denmark as their economy started pulsing again. So Denmark having to battle it out in that 8-14 level of international hockey will become much more of a norm than it being on top of this group.

You give Belgium as an example in football but at the same time, ignore the same instances in hockey. Look at Belarus as a clear example. Hockey is the number 1 sport there and every village has its rink. You forget that as recent as 06/07 Latvia had 4 players in the NHL, Belarus had 4, Kazakhstan had 2, Lithuania had 2, Ukraine had 2, Austria had 2, Denmark had.. 2. Both at the very beginning of their careers. Year before, Denmark had 0. So it's amazing Denmark has created such a gap between themselves and those other nations in recent years but it's silly to think those were never going to bounce back. Especially when locally, Danish hockey is really nothing to write home about.

Have had a bit of a hiatus from these parts of the forum, so had not seen this.

But, I guess it all comes down to where you stand, and what culture you were brought up with.

I think Belarus is a bad example, with it being an unstable dictatorship - And Latvia will always be a dificult case with such a small population, even if Hockey is king.

I don’t think federations need to look to other federations that are failing, but federations that are not.

That is why I gave Belgium as an example.

I am not saying Denmark is going to be a powerhouse, or need to be one - I am saying the momentum was not grabbed to make hockey a mainstay in Denmark.

I am saying that they were not very pro-active.

Like I mentioned, I know people withing the federation that feel the same way.

They too feel that there is a very defeatist mentality, that is far too often seen in Denmark, or if not defeatist, then a mentality of being content.

It is fine that all here disagree, and you can come with all the reasons why you think I am wrong - That to me is just excusing that kind of mentality - I dunno if it is a small nation thing, but it is something I really noticed in Denmark.

With all this said, it is important for me to make clear, that what Denmark have done in the past, and the level they have been at the last 14 years is incredible - I am only talking about lack of taking advantage of the momentum hockey has had.

I personally think we have seen the best of Danish hockey.

No need to argue further, as I doubt we will reach any agreements, I just wanted to make clear my point, and that I have nothing but respect for what they have achieved on the ice.

This whole discussion is bordering ot, so if any of you really want to challenge my opinion and make me think otherwise, pm me instead