Prospect Info: Daniel Sprong Progress

[Peat]

Sheahan - in Sully's mind - likely helps cover for the mistakes of the "other" winger. He's been a rock defensively. I'd bet my paycheck that fewer goals go in when he's out there than any other center we have.

Sheahan - 2 GA in 110 odd minutes
Geno - 4 GA in 80 odd minutes
Sid - 8 GA in 135 odd minutes
Brassard - 3 GA in 110 odd minutes

 

[Michael Farkas]

Thanks for doing the leg work for my lazy ass...

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

- Sheary has earned some benefit of the doubt given his level of production in his short NHL career. He also has upside that needs to be nurtured. I know it's fun on the internet to go all crazy about what's happened in the last game, last week, last month or last season...but we're talking about a professional franchise here. Sheary has pop-gun offense, if you will, so in short spurts he can wind his way through a weaker pairing. He has shown that ability - though without cashing - in this series...and he's shown it previously. I want to unwrap the shiny new toy too, but there's a process to this.

This is what I most take issue with. Criticism of Sheary isn't a "what have you done for me lately" hot take - he has gotten the benefit of the doubt all season and squandered it. He managed just 30 points this year despite consistently being played in one of the most advantageous offensive positions in hockey...when he wasn't playing with Sid and Jake/Horny, he was with Brass and Kessel (DobberHockey Presents FrozenPool's NHL Line Combinations). He's gotten so much rope that he's hung himself with it and Sully still plays the cold, pulseless corpse.

So now we have a diminutive offense-only winger who, after a poor regular season, has 2 assists in 10 playoff games and spends the rare moments he has upright throwing blind backhand passes up the middle to nobody at his own blueline. He hasn't been able to exploit anything all year so it's hard to justify how crossing our fingers and hoping he magically finds his scoring touch after 90 games is the most reasonable course, especially when we have a weapon like Sprong just sitting around.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

Maybe if he gets some confidence by scoring some late goals in this series to propel us to a 6-game victory over these kong donkeys, then maybe I go that direction...

EDIT: Sorry, I'm in the Sprong thread and derailing this. My apologies.

No apologies necessary for introducing "kong donkeys" into the lexicon.

 

[The Old Master]

This is what I most take issue with. Criticism of Sheary isn't a "what have you done for me lately" hot take - he has gotten the benefit of the doubt all season and squandered it. He managed just 30 points this year despite consistently being played in one of the most advantageous offensive positions in hockey...when he wasn't playing with Sid and Jake/Horny, he was with Brass and Kessel (DobberHockey Presents FrozenPool's NHL Line Combinations). He's gotten so much rope that he's hung himself with it and Sully still plays the cold, pulseless corpse.

So now we have a diminutive offense-only winger who, after a poor regular season, has 2 assists in 10 playoff games and spends the rare moments he has upright throwing blind backhand passes up the middle to nobody at his own blueline. He hasn't been able to exploit anything all year so it's hard to justify how crossing our fingers and hoping he magically finds his scoring touch after 90 games is the most reasonable course, especially when we have a weapon like Sprong just sitting around.

on his behalf ... he's first on the fore check, and unbelievably wins a fair share of board battles. he's still a long way from adams

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

What does Simon do that Sprong doesn't do? I'm legitimately asking for those that have seen both play a lot in the AHL. Because it seems like if we do need an injection of offense, Sully and the coaching staff seem to like Simon way more than they do Sprong.

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

on his behalf ... he's first on the fore check, and unbelievably wins a fair share of board battles. he's still a long way from adams

To be fair: while you are right, he wins a board battle, then falls down two minutes later to blow a play

He giveth and he taketh away more than anyone.

 

[Peat]

Thanks for doing the leg work for my lazy ass...

No worries - I like to contribute around here somehow and it's not gonna be with my in depth knowledge of hockey, so might as well grab stats

But if you don't mind a cheeky question, are there are any other forwards in WBS that looked like potential NHLers?

What does Simon do that Sprong doesn't do? I'm legitimately asking for those that have seen both play a lot in the AHL. Because it seems like if we do need an injection of offense, Sully and the coaching staff seem to like Simon way more than they do Sprong.

Going from the NHL - I think Simon plays a better give and go game, and is more willing to throw the body around. I remember Sully mentioning Simon's ability to spring guys from the neutral zone. He lacks Sprong's offensive tool kit and speed, but - at least when they were both up - he looked the better complimentary player to me, in terms of understanding where to go to set up plays and doing dirty work.

Which is great for playing with Sid. But if you're looking maybe at a guy to go with an injured Brassard who's able to set people up but needs someone with the shots, wheels, skills and so on to take the chances...? The role Rust is meant to be doing?

I'd also add that maybe, back in the regular season, it was simply they were close enough and the org didn't care if Simon got 10 minutes a night here and there. And now Simon is just that extra bit more integrated.

 

[The Old Master]

To be fair: while you are right, he wins a board battle, then falls down two minutes later to blow a play

He giveth and he taketh away more than anyone.

 

[Tom Hanks]

I'm not making any comparisons to ZAR or Simon. The team needs a scorer, or at least someone with a good shot, and they have one available. It is foolish to not play a young kid just because his game isn't 100% what you'd like it be right now. No one is asking him to carry the franchise.

This is the only time our scoring has been down but we've still scored 3 goals in 3 out of the 4 games. It's a lower scoring series from both sides. We won our last series and its tied in this one with a lot of factors outside our control going against us (some pretty blatant).

I'm sure there is discussion from the coaching staff about him but we as a team are still doing well and it's not predetermined that Sprong would make a significant difference.

 

[Michael Farkas]

No worries - I like to contribute around here somehow and it's not gonna be with my in depth knowledge of hockey, so might as well grab stats

But if you don't mind a cheeky question, are there are any other forwards in WBS that looked like potential NHLers?



Going from the NHL - I think Simon plays a better give and go game, and is more willing to throw the body around. I remember Sully mentioning Simon's ability to spring guys from the neutral zone. He lacks Sprong's offensive tool kit and speed, but - at least when they were both up - he looked the better complimentary player to me, in terms of understanding where to go to set up plays and doing dirty work.

Which is great for playing with Sid. But if you're looking maybe at a guy to go with an injured Brassard who's able to set people up but needs someone with the shots, wheels, skills and so on to take the chances...? The role Rust is meant to be doing?

I'd also add that maybe, back in the regular season, it was simply they were close enough and the org didn't care if Simon got 10 minutes a night here and there. And now Simon is just that extra bit more integrated.

It's a good question. I'm not a WBS expert. I just pop in now and again to just check on the development of some guys and then I have a few contacts around the organization and the league to get others thoughts. If I may c&p from another post I made elsewhere on 4/8/18 about some of the guys I saw...this was not intended to be scouting reports or anything legitimately useful...just quips and nonsense...I can do a deeper dive on players on command usually if someone wants a more serious response...

...

LW Adam Johnson (signed thru 2019) - still has a little ways to go to become a legit prospect. Not as involved or as confident as he was in college, I'd like to see him take more command of things. Doesn't play top line minutes, but he does play on the power play. There's some skill and some skating in there, but he needs to show more.

F Thomas DiPauli (RFA) - Very fast, tenacious, seems to get our style of play really well. Not much on hands but he funnels a lot of stuff towards the net without d****** around with it in the interior of the rink. He needs more skill development, but the head and the feet are tracking towards being NHL caliber. It's fair to consider him a possible 4th line NHL player next year given his development. I'd qualify him for sure, he could be Rust Jr. - who also couldn't finish when he first came into the league. Though, I think TDP is starting from a lower point...

RW Daniel Sprong (RFA) - Better playmaker down in the AHL than he showed in the NHL. I hate to say it, but kind of like Kessel in that regard. How far that will go in the NHL is another story, but he doesn't just try to drive wide with speed and throw it under the bar every rush. There's a little more maturity to his game than that. He still does that, don't get me wrong...and he's going to score in the NHL like that too. But you need a dynamic skill set, you can't just rest on one move or else you flake out like Hunter Shinkaruk...naturally, I qualify him. If he wants to go two years, with two-way in the first, one-way in the second, I'm cool with that. He'll be an NHL player certainly.

C Jean-Sebastien Dea (RFA) - We really don't have a lot of guys knocking on the door and this player has always caught my eye. I don't think he's going to be a regular NHLer, but he's worth having around because good centers help develop good wingers. He's not in anyone's way and he's quite talented for his surroundings. He does everything for the club...probably our most well-rounded player in WBS (not only among forwards, but d-men too). He's RHS to boot. Is there a chance he's a 4C candidate next season? Yes, it's possible. But like I said, I'm not sure he's a regular NHLer. Right now, he's adding skill to his game and not necessarily grime. He'll have a long AHL career if he wants it, plus he'll get some looks. He can probably parlay this season into another couple NHL contracts. I qualify him.

LD Andrey Pedan (RFA) - Pedan is probably best summed up as the Oleksiak of the WBS Penguins, except he's naturally tougher. He's a big, mobile player that just kind of freelances it...he'll pump a big shot, he'll make a big hit, he'll get isolated on pretty routine plays...ya know, Oleksiak stuff...if Pedan was RHS, he might actually be on an NHL roster somewhere...I don't like these style of players, I'm starting to soften my stance on that a little as I learn more, but Pedan doesn't offer a lot to me at this level. I qualify him because I think he's a valuable AHL defenseman...he's a big minute player on a team that routinely dresses 11 & 7...and WBS d-men have the freedom to be first on the forecheck whenever they want, a big, athletic player will thrive in that scenario. I'll keep him in the organization, but only because he's not in anyone's way and I can see him feasibly being called up and giving us four games at some point...

RD Ethan Prow (RFA) - I really do wish Prow was like a '96 instead of a late '92 so it'd be easier to chalk up his development arc...but whatever...the fact is that he's a year younger than Dumoulin, the same age as Oleksiak and Olli Maatta is two years younger than him and OM3 has played more games in the last 12 months than Prow has a pro. He's a competent skater, he's a competent puck mover, he's competent defensively usually...but I don't think there's enough rope left for him...it's just too little too late...you tell me this is a '96, I'll tell you it's a B-/C+ prospect...you tell me it's a '97 or a '98, you have a B- prospect out right...this is a late '92...you have an AHL defenseman. I'd qualify him because I'm still a little curious and he's not in anyone's way...but there's just not enough runway left...

RD Lukas Bengtsson (RFA) - He doesn't check off a lot of boxes for me from an NHL perspective. He's pretty smart, but pretty vanilla. But his game just doesn't do much for me, I don't see a scenario where he stands out enough to ever get a look in the NHL. Needs to manage his gaps better. I don't qualify this player because there's a million of him and he can make a better living in the SHL probably...

LD Jarred Tinordi (UFA) - Hahaha what a putz...pls go. Typical big, dumb, physical defenseman. He's everything Jared Cowen and Dylan McIlrath are/wanted to be...and like all these first round picks, they wish they were playing in the NHL...and if they were drafted in 1991, they might be...but this guy is rubbish...he only gets another NHL deal if the name and draft stock fumes float under someone like Brian Burke's nose...

LD Chris Summers (signed thru 2019) - I remember you...you were like a late first round pick a while back...went to Michigan...how'd you get worse at this after all this time? You and Brandon Gormley I guess just don't have the Paul Martin/Andy Greene magic formula...I don't like you. But you're out of sight, out of mind as a third pairing defenseman in the AHL...


(Editor's note: I haven't gotten a good look at the Latvian kid...Bluegers (?) in a while...I've heard some good things about him...but I won't jump on things I haven't seen myself)

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

This is the only time our scoring has been down but we've still scored 3 goals in 3 out of the 4 games. It's a lower scoring series from both sides. We won our last series and its tied in this one with a lot of factors outside our control going against us (some pretty blatant).

I'm sure there is discussion from the coaching staff about him but we as a team are still doing well and it's not predetermined that Sprong would make a significant difference.

I feel like the bolded misses the entire point of the argument of the need to insert Sprong into the lineup, as well as misleads about how well our offense has been.

Saying "we've scored 3 goals in 3 out of the 4 games" makes it sound like our entire offense has been humming in 3 out of those 4 games, when the reality is ONE LINE is responsible for all of those goals. And that's the issue.

Maybe if we actually got depth scoring this series, we wouldn't be tied 2-2? Maybe if we had a guy who could finish on his chances, it wouldn't be a low scoring series from our side?

It would be like the Oilers fans arguing the Oilers have tremendous depth because they scored X amount of goals this year, ignoring the fact one line was basically involved in half of those goals and a lack of depth is what cost them a playoff spot.

 

[Peat]

Thanks Mike - not often we get even that level of insight. A shame Johnson hasn't really grabbed the opportunity, thought he sounded really promising when we signed him.

Is there any possibility of Quinney or Haggerty signing NHL deals and becoming something a la Sheary?

 

[Ogrezilla]

What does Simon do that Sprong doesn't do? I'm legitimately asking for those that have seen both play a lot in the AHL. Because it seems like if we do need an injection of offense, Sully and the coaching staff seem to like Simon way more than they do Sprong.

Honestly, I think it comes down to who played better in their short chance up earlier this year when we had an opening to fill. Simon and ZAR both outproduced Sprong in their chances during the season, and Sully never felt the need to reevaluate it later. At this point there's a comfort level with Simon.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Thanks, but that's mostly passing glance garbage...if it's less guys, I can try to provide more insight...but I try to catch a solid 7, 8 guys a game when it comes to WBS...so the stuff that sticks with me is generally crap...but you got what you paid for, so...

Re: other question

Let's put it this way, and I say this without being overly familiar with them, I've seen them, but I doubt I have any real notes on them (except Lafferty, I know Lafferty all right)...but let's put it this way, I'm a betting man and I come across this bet:

Will Quinney, Haggerty and/or Lafferty combine to play 3 or more NHL games among them?

Yes: +750
No: -120
Push: +10000

I'd throw my money on "push" obviously...it doesn't matter what pays +10000 just take it...but in this completely unrealistic and oddly-specific scenario, I'm throwing a hundo on "no" for sure...

 

[Gurglesons]

Honestly, I think it comes down to who played better in their short chance up earlier this year when we had an opening to fill. Simon and ZAR both outproduced Sprong in their chances during the season, and Sully never felt the need to reevaluate it later. At this point there's a comfort level with Simon.

I think Simon has also demonstrated he is able to play soundly on a bottom line until Game 3.

 

[Tom Hanks]

I think Simon has also demonstrated he is able to play soundly on a bottom line until Game 3.

He can also do the tic tac toe plays with Jake and Sid. Looks so good when it happens. Allows us to have Hornqvist down a line who plays well anywhere.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Simon has been very good, so I'm not sure why he's mentioned in the context of the Sprong thread. He wouldn't/shouldn't be the player coming out for him.

 

[Michael Farkas]

He would have been the player to come out (before Sheary, mind you) after his game 3 performance. He was on the chopping block. Not my speculation.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

He would have been the player to come out (before Sheary, mind you) after his game 3 performance. He was on the chopping block. Not my speculation.

That really highlights the entire problem.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Unless the problem isn't Sullivan...

 

[Ogrezilla]

Simon has been very good, so I'm not sure why he's mentioned in the context of the Sprong thread. He wouldn't/shouldn't be the player coming out for him.

yeah, the idea of him going from promoted to Sid's line to benched the next game is silly He's clearly being held in higher regard than Sheary and Rust right now, because both of those guys would be higher on the pecking order to fill that spot if they were playing up to par.

 

[Pens1566]

Unless the problem isn't Sullivan...

I've always hated Recchi ...

 

[Michael Farkas]

Re: Top line to scratch and back.

Just for conversation this happened in the 2017 Wales Conference Final vs. Ottawa.......with Sheary. I don't say this in defense of him...I say it from the perspective that Simon playing with Crosby means that he's more valued in the lineup than [player X]...that's not really how that works...

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Unless the problem isn't Sullivan...

I can't really read the implication here. But I can be a little slow on the uptake.