Daniel Alfredsson Versus Marian Hossa

Who was better?


  • Total voters
    45
  • Poll closed .

GlitchMarner

Typical malevolent, devious & vile Maple Leafs fan
Jul 21, 2017
9,712
6,432
Brampton, ON
Just vote or the better player, taking into account peak, prime, longevity, talent, accomplishments, awards etc.

Start of round two.



Bracket A:


Elias (4-1: defeated Hejduk, Naslund, Tkachuk and Recchi; lost to Alfredsson)
Fleury (4-0: defeated Kovalev, Marleau, Roberts and LeClair)

Palffy (4-1: defeated Bondra, Nolan, Demitra and Damphousse; lost to Robitaille)
Naslund (4-2: defeated Bondra, Bertuzzi, Kovalev and Demitra; lost to Alfredsson and Elias)

Hossa (3-2: defeated Recchi, Tkachuk and Mogilny, received a bye; lost to Robitaille and Shanahan)
Alfredsson (4-0: defeated Naslund, Hejduk, Elias and Marleau)

Robitaille (4-0: defeated Hossa, Palffy, Recchi and Brind'Amour)
Shanahan (4-0: defeated Tkachuk, Recchi, Hossa and Mogilny)



Eliminated players:

Nolan (0-4: lost to LeClair, Bondra, Palffy and Whitney)
Allison (0-4: lost to Zhamnov, Tanguay, Yashin and Smyth)
Recchi (1-4: defeated Mogilny; lost to Shanahan, Robitaille, Hossa and Elias)
Amonte (1-4: defeated Gagne; lost to LeClair, Hejduk, Roberts and Whitney)
Gagne (1-4: defeated Smyth; lost to Amonte, Zhamnov, Yashin and Tanguay)
Bertuzzi (1-4: defeated Whitney; lost to Roberts, Marleau, Naslund and Brind'Amour)
Smyth (1-4: defeated Allison; lost to Roberts, Gagne, Whitney and Weight)
Hejduk (2-4: defeated Amonte and Tanguay; lost to Elias, Alfredsson, Bondra and Kovalev)
Tanguay (2-4: defeated Allison and Gagne; lost to Marleau, Weight, Hejduk and Zhamnov)
Roberts (3-4: defeated Smyth, Bertuzzi and Amonte; lost to Fleury, Marleau, Koivu and LeClair)
Tkachuk (3-4: defeated Demitra, LeClair and Weight; lost to Shanahan, Hossa, Elias and Mogilny)
Yashin (3-4: defeated Allison, Gagne and Zhamnov; lost to Demitra, Koivu, Damphousse and Weight)
Whitney (3-4: defeated Smyth, Nolan and Amonte; lost to Bertuzzi, Mogilny, Bondra and Zhamnov)
Koivu (3-4: defeated Yashin, Zhamnov and Roberts; lost to Weight, Damphousse, Demitra and Brind'Amour)
Marleau (3-4: defeated Tanguay, Bertuzzi and Roberts; lost to Fleury, Alfredsson, Mogilny and Damphousse)
Demitra (3-4: defeated Yashin, Zhamnov and Koivu; lost to Tkachuk, Palffy, Naslund and Bondra)
 
Last edited:

GlitchMarner

Typical malevolent, devious & vile Maple Leafs fan
Jul 21, 2017
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Brampton, ON
Alfredsson:

Won the Calder in '96
AS-2, fifth in Hart voting and 4th in Selke voting in '06
Top 20 in Hart and Selke voting in '07 and '08
Three top ten points finishes (4th, 7th, 9th)
Three top ten goals finishes (9th, 9th, 9th)
Eighth in assists in '06
1157 points in 1246 career games (1261 adjusted points)
100 points in 124 playoff games
14 goals, 22 points in 20 playoff games in '07 (team reached SCF)
13 points in 12 playoff games in '02
10 points in 10 playoff games in '06 and '13
Two playoff OT goals


Hossa:

Second in Calder voting in '97
10th in Hart voting in '03 and '07
Top ten in Selke voting three times (5th, 7th, 10th)
Two top ten points finishes (5th, 6th)
Four top ten goals finishes (4th, 5th, 5th, 6th)
1134 career points in 1309 career games (1257 adjusted points)
149 points in 205 playoff games
12 goals, 26 points in 20 playoff games in '09 (team reached SCF)
Five other playoff runs with 15 or more points (in '15, '03, '13, '09, '10)
Won three Stanley Cups with Blackhawks
Two playoff OT goals
 
Last edited:

GlitchMarner

Typical malevolent, devious & vile Maple Leafs fan
Jul 21, 2017
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It'll take me time to decide on this one. I may end up going with Hossa because of the Cups, though he played on stacked teams when he won those. They both played on a lot of good teams, although Hossa played for a competitive team nearly every season (even the Thrashers made the playoffs in one of his full two seasons with the team) of his career whereas Alfie did start off on the Sens when they still sucked and then continued played for OTT after the team's decline in '09.
 

NyQuil

Big F$&*in Q
Jan 5, 2005
95,345
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Ottawa, ON
Have to go with Alfredsson here who was always the major catalyst on his line.

Hossa struggled when he was the focal point of the team.
 

Ivo

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Dec 29, 2008
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Rotterdam, NL
It'll take me time to decide on this one. I may end up going with Hossa because of the Cups, though he played on stacked teams when he won those. They both played on a lot of good teams, although Hossa played for a competitive team nearly every season (even the Thrashers made the playoffs in one of his full two seasons with the team) of his career whereas Alfie did start off on the Sens when they still sucked and then continued played for OTT after the team's decline in '09.

I wouldn't call the Thrashers a competitive team. The main reason they made the playoffs that year was Hossa. In Ottawa, I remember Alfredsson usually got to play with better linemates, yet they produced similar numbers. Having said that, these two are too close to call. Hossa was a better goalscorer, Alfredsson slightly better all-around offensively. Both very good defensive players. Individually I think they are equal. Voted for Hossa out of personal preference and because he won three cups.
 

Ivo

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Dec 29, 2008
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Rotterdam, NL
Both were right wings and their careers coincided, so the all-star voting is quite telling in showing who was considered better at their position throughout their career. The voting slightly favours Hossa, both in terms of the quality as well as the number of placements:

Alfredsson - 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 9, 15
Hossa - 2, 3, 3, 3, 4, 6, 11, 11, 12, 12, 12, 12, 15
 

SotasicA

Registered User
Aug 25, 2014
8,489
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Completely subjective vote for Hossa. I never liked Alfie. One of the worst captains in the game.

Also, he played for the Wings. So did Hossa, but he lost in the Cup finals playing for them so that's actually a positive.
 

trentmccleary

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Mar 2, 2002
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10 year era-adjusted average:
Alfie = 73-33-51-84, 0.45 GPG, 1.15 PPG
Hossa = 78-38-45-83, 0.49 GPG, 1.06 PPG

Playoffs 82 game pace
Alfie = 82-34-22-66
Hossa = 82-21-40-61

Individual playoff series by PPG
Total Series = #>= 1.20 PPG, 1.00-1.19, .67-.86, 0.40-0.60, #< 0.39
Alfie: 24 = 6, 5, 6, 3, 4
Hossa: 37 = 5, 6, 10, 10, 6

It's close, but Alfie was a little better offensively and noticeably better in the playoffs.
 
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Felidae

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Sep 30, 2016
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I think the only apparent things at Hossa's advantage is his higher and more numerous selke finishes indicating a clearly superior defensive game, same applies to his goalscoring.

However, to play devil's advocate, you can also contend (Although a likely to be controversial contention at that) that Hossa peaked higher as a player than Alfredsson did. In his 2 best seasons, never did he have a player in the same line that near equaled his production. His 5th and 6th point finishes he outscored his teammate by 20 points in Atlanta (Not even presuming said teammate was his linemate, Kozlov) and the third highest scoring teammate for his Ottawa point finish was havlat with 68 points. Coincidentally, Alfredsson was second with 2 less points in 5 less games played. But they were right wings so presumably didn't regularly play on the same line (Correct me if im wrong).

However, that reason is also why I don't think it a particularly compelling argument along with the fact that the consensus seems to be that Alfredsson was the best of his linemates in 2005-06, equaling their production with a far superior defensive game.

So yeah, objectively speaking I don't see a convincing argument for Hossa.
 

SotasicA

Registered User
Aug 25, 2014
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6,402
10 year era-adjusted average:
Alfie = 73-33-51-84, 0.45 GPG, 1.15 PPG
Hossa = 78-38-45-83, 0.49 GPG, 1.06 PPG

Playoffs 82 game pace
Alfie = 82-34-22-66
Hossa = 82-21-40-61

Individual playoff series by PPG
Total Series = #>= 1.20 PPG, 1.00-1.19, .67-.86, 0.40-0.60, #< 0.39
Alfie: 24 = 6, 5, 6, 3, 4
Hossa: 37 = 5, 6, 10, 10, 6

It's close, but Alfie was a little better offensively and noticeably better in the playoffs.

Better?

IN POINTS.

Points. Not even goals. Points. Is that your argument?
 

GlitchMarner

Typical malevolent, devious & vile Maple Leafs fan
Jul 21, 2017
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Brampton, ON
Alfredsson wins with under 55% of the votes.


1996-97.jpg
 

trentmccleary

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Mar 2, 2002
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Both were right wings and their careers coincided, so the all-star voting is quite telling in showing who was considered better at their position throughout their career. The

slightly favours Hossa, both in terms of the quality as well as the number of placements:

Alfredsson - 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 9, 15
Hossa - 2, 3, 3, 3, 4, 6, 11, 11, 12, 12, 12, 12, 15

Tsk tsk.

Hossa has 11 years of All Star votes and two of those years he had stray LW votes for a total of 13. You posted 13 All Star votes for him. Including his 9th and 15th place votes.

Alfredsson has 9 years of All Star votes and 3 of those years he had stray LW votes for a total of 12. You posted only 9 All Star votes for him. Leaving out his 8th, 9th and 12th place stray votes.

What constitutes higher placements?
Top-5 = Hossa 5x, Alfie 4x
#6-10 = Hossa 1x, Alfie 6x

Better?

IN POINTS.

Points. Not even goals. Points. Is that your argument?

Better in points in the regular season with 10x 70+ point seasons to Hossa's 7x and 8x PPG seasons to Hossa's 4x. Better in points, goals, everything in the playoffs.

Alfredsson led the NHL playoffs in goals AND points in 2007.

Does that help?

In 15 postseason, Alfredsson was at 1.00 PPG or higher 6 times and 0.50 GPG or higher 5 times across 8 different postseasons.
In 17 postseason, Hossa was at 1.00 PPG or higher 1 time and 0.50 GPG or higher 1 time across 1 postseason (the postseason he played with Sidney Crosby).
 

Ivo

Registered User
Dec 29, 2008
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Rotterdam, NL
Tsk tsk.

Hossa has 11 years of All Star votes and two of those years he had stray LW votes for a total of 13. You posted 13 All Star votes for him. Including his 9th and 15th place votes.

Alfredsson has 9 years of All Star votes and 3 of those years he had stray LW votes for a total of 12. You posted only 9 All Star votes for him. Leaving out his 8th, 9th and 12th place stray votes.

What constitutes higher placements?
Top-5 = Hossa 5x, Alfie 4x
#6-10 = Hossa 1x, Alfie 6x

Hmm, you are right, brainfart on my part, I added two extra 12th place votes to Hossa, because in hockey-reference portions of seasons played for different teams show in different rows. Still, Hossa got RW votes in 11 seasons and Alfredsson in 9 seasons. So Hossa has more season s with votes. Also, Hossa was top-three 4 times, Alfredsson twice.

I reality, Alfredsson had 4 seasons in which he received significant votes at RW (+one season with 6 3-rd place votes).
Hossa had 5 seasons in which he received significant votes at RW (+one season with 2 2nd place votes and 5 3rd place votes).

So, even though I made a stupid mistake in my original post, my claim that Hossa has better all-star finishes in terms of placement as well as total number still stands.
 

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