Prospect Info: Dallas Stars 2021 Draft Picks

[Captain Awesome]

How can you mention Ryan O'Reilly without mentioning him crashing into a Tim Hortons after drinking and driving

Easy, I had absolutely no idea! Also, I was not defending his character at all, just mentioning that the Blues are maybe not the team I'd want to emulate (and really emulating other successful teams is stupid anyway).

FWIW, he had already been traded to the Sabres by that point. Got to love a guy who signs for $50M but is too cheap to call a f***ing uber. Ryan O'Reilly charged after allegedly crashing into Tim Hortons

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

As people mentioned, not only are those not Nill moves, but you might have forgotten some pretty important things about Mike Ribeiro's time here: Disturbing allegations emerge in Mike Ribeiro sexual assault lawsuit

That's on top of the drug problems he dealt with while he was here, and I think some other run ins he had with the law. Again, 'character' in the NHL is pretty fluid.

Secondly, you really want to try and build a dead puck era Devils team? Teams don't play like that anymore, it's outdated. It no longer works. St. Louis had plenty of skill for their cup run. Ryan O'Reilly, who ironically, is the player we keep trying to draft over and over in the first round, has come with his own issues. Mostly that his dad is a pain in the ass and has meddled in contract negotiations in his time in the NHL. It's why he got shipped to Buffalo in the first place. I'd also argue that team is a massive cup anomaly. All credit to St. Louis for winning the cup, but it might be one of the weaker rosters to win a cup, along with the Hurricanes that won during the beginning of the post lockout era. Here's the roster, you can judge for yourself. St. Louis Blues 2018-19 roster and scoring statistics at hockeydb.com

I don't even know what 'antics' you are talking about with Raty, Raty has not had character issues at all, he's had issues with not improving very much, or even regressing, as compared to an excellent season he had two years ago when he was considered the #1 draft pick for this draft.

On another note, I don't think the Radulov signing was that risky, at least no more than signing a guy that age can be as a UFA. All the stuff we heard about him was from his much earlier days in Nashville. There's a solid 4 years between his random end of season stint in Nashville and his time in Montreal, which is far removed from his more notorious time as a rookie. He got scratched for missing curfew with the Predators during their playoff run in 2011-12, but I think he was just playing out that year so he could get out from under the Predators owning his rights. Khudobin got in trouble for the same thing this last season I think.

Ya, I had a few memory lapses, although I do recall Ribs off the rink stuff. I was actually surprised we would trade for him after his very on the ice fake injury in MTL, although, picking up talent cheap usually requires some sacrifices, and sometimes that is a character flaw, injury concern or contract squabble.

As to signing Rads, I recall Nill saying he had checked out Rads character extensively before he signed him. But, Nill has also said he is building a team to beat STL, knowing that after realignment, he had to get out of his own division. And, my take is that if you want to build quickly, and don't have a load of top end talent, being "heavy" is a key component to move things along. Yeah, both STL and the Stars have some talent, but not enough even in those Ruff years where they tried to outscore their problems. (and, against STL proved to themselves they couldn't do it, although Kari had something to do with it.)

It doesn't matter if I want to build a team after the NJ Devils, but my point was that Nill seems to want to, at least in some modified version, i.e., no pugilist only type players, gotta have some speed at least, as the entire NHL is probably faster.

 

[eartotheground]

i think 'character' means a lot of different things to different ppl. and as stated above by someone, it's difficult to vet teenagers. obviously the off ice stuff is one thing, but i think when you hear character mentioned in the sports sense it's usually referring to coachability, willingness to play assigned role on a team, willingness to work to improve and help others improve, and the ability to maintain a positive approach no matter the circumstances. teams don't succeed often at the highest level with players who feel it's their way or the highway. a big part of a coach's role is to see what the maximum output of the team can be, not maximize each individual. sometimes that means players need to play roles they don't love. if you have a player that gets bitchy about it, the crappy attitude can spread like wildfire on a team. quickly can turn into taking sides, cliques, all the BS you'd expect of humans at their worst- and that's not conducive to winning.

 

[Captain Awesome]

That is a pretty good interpretation of what it could mean in this context, although I think it is rarely explained that way in those articles we always see. I would probably consider a lot of those things a minimum requirement to be part of a team, especially at the pro level where you'll have to adapt your game since you aren't good enough to score like you once did in junior. It's actually ironic you mention those things, because I think those are big reasons why Suter got bought out by Minnesota.

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

I agree it is hard to evaluate, but most teams try to do at least a once over on prospects to make sure they don't have any fatal flaws. The 1996 pick of Ric Jackman or the 2008 Glennie pick, both of whom were probably doomed to fail due to alcohol problems were a particularly painful way to waste a first round draft pick.

I think they also wanted to gauge a guy like Miro vs Makar when they had the chance to get an idea of who was more excited to play for the Stars and live in TX. Looked like they got the right guy, or a right guy, anyway, with Miro. I forgot that Nolan Patrick wasn't going to sign here if we drafted him, because of some issue with how they handled his father while he was here as coach, or something. No reason to pick him, even if he was BPA.

Other than first round picks, or maybe 1 through 3, I think they take a few more chances, but maybe not. We can't know why they passed over some guy with more production for who they picked, i.e., was it a "projectable frame" speed, character, or whatever.

 

[Zapp]

Look at the all the bullshit drama happening with players and teams because of lack of character. It’s just bad press and a headache for the whole team because it takes the focus off hockey. I think we missed out on some seriously good players, but it’s hard to get mad at a team that would rather swing for the fences with high character players.

 

[LT]

How can you mention Ryan O'Reilly without mentioning him crashing into a Tim Hortons after drinking and driving

still cant f***ing believe he not only got off scot free but keeps getting nominated for lady byngs

 

[Captain Awesome]

still cant f***ing believe he not only got off scot free but keeps getting nominated for lady byngs

10/10 classless Subbans.

 

[BrettHullsToe]

avoiding top goal scoring talent draft after draft, like Raty this year.

Gonna take issue with this - Raty hasn't been a top goal scoring talent for 2 straight seasons. Just because he's had a good tournament recently doesn't change the fact that he looked like yet another player who hit an early peak and was most likely not going to make the NHL.

 

[eartotheground]

10/10 classless Subbans.

LMAO, haven't heard this one in a while.

 

[Captain Awesome]

LMAO, haven't heard this one in a while.

Yeah, I saw it the other day and had completely forgotten about it. I see you joined here even before I did, my hfboard memes are all probably super outdated by now.

 

[BfantZ]

Gonna take issue with this - Raty hasn't been a top goal scoring talent for 2 straight seasons. Just because he's had a good tournament recently doesn't change the fact that he looked like yet another player who hit an early peak and was most likely not going to make the NHL.

I think if the draft was like 6 hours later , raty would have jumped 20 spots lol

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

Gonna take issue with this - Raty hasn't been a top goal scoring talent for 2 straight seasons. Just because he's had a good tournament recently doesn't change the fact that he looked like yet another player who hit an early peak and was most likely not going to make the NHL.

Well, I understand that he dropped from the potential first overall based on a bad year+. So, another interesting draft philosophy, maybe not for the first round pick but others. Do you draft a falling star with current bad production, or a lower ranked guy whose production picked up right before the draft? Or ignore both and pick a guy who has been steady in the rankings, or one who has slowly risen, not jumped way up as a "late riser" in the draft?

It is not an exact science, for sure. And mostly, I'm just trying to figure out what is in Nill's head when he drafts. A few times, it seems like they lock on to a guy for reasons the rest of the NHL just doesn't seem to see.

Of course, those reach picks can work out. When Gainey drafted Jarome Ignila at 11 OA, I think he was ranked 55th or something, but they saw something no one else saw and went with it.

 

[M88K]

Well, I understand that he dropped from the potential first overall based on a bad year+. So, another interesting draft philosophy, maybe not for the first round pick but others. Do you draft a falling star with current bad production, or a lower ranked guy whose production picked up right before the draft? Or ignore both and pick a guy who has been steady in the rankings, or one who has slowly risen, not jumped way up as a "late riser" in the draft?

It is not an exact science, for sure. And mostly, I'm just trying to figure out what is in Nill's head when he drafts. A few times, it seems like they lock on to a guy for reasons the rest of the NHL just doesn't seem to see.

Of course, those reach picks can work out. When Gainey drafted Jarome Ignila at 11 OA, I think he was ranked 55th or something, but they saw something no one else saw and went with it.

It's not nills head to worry about, it's how McDonnell and his scouts

 

[starsfan86]

Here’s a great read on Wyatt Johnston for whoever has a subscription to The Athletic.
How Wyatt Johnston became a Stars first-round pick without a draft year

 

[BfantZ]

2021 draft score
Johnston - B plus . Like the dellandrea pick I was surprised but Johnston definitely has more upside and this time they traded down to get there guy and that saved this pick from being a C plus .

Stankoven -A plus . I think this guy is gonna be something special in a few years . Great pick .

Grushnikov - C minus . don’t like picking a defenseman here just because we need d in the prospect pool . There were atleast 2-3 high end forwards they should have grabbed .

Martino - A plus - Would have been a good late 1st to second round pick . Enough said .

Ertel - C . A shot in the dark . Don’t see him being an nhl player .

Roulette - A . Another guy who should have went in the second round . Awesome pick .

Bar - B . Doubt he ever makes the nhl but at that point in the draft I feel it was a solid pick .

Arcuri-A . Very good pick for the 6th round . Will be fun to see if he booms or busts .

Holmes - C . Might be a depth option way down the road . Not my favourite pick though .

Sjoberg - B+ . Really like this pick . Seems like he has a knack for putting the puck in the net . Was surprised no one had taken him yet .
Anyone care to play along ?

 

[Kcb12345]

2021 draft score
Johnston - B plus . Like the dellandrea pick I was surprised but Johnston definitely has more upside and this time they traded down to get there guy and that saved this pick from being a C plus .

Stankoven -A plus . I think this guy is gonna be something special in a few years . Great pick .

Grushnikov - C minus . don’t like picking a defenseman here just because we need d in the prospect pool . There were atleast 2-3 high end forwards they should have grabbed .

Martino - A plus - Would have been a good late 1st to second round pick . Enough said .

Ertel - C . A shot in the dark . Don’t see him being an nhl player .

Roulette - A . Another guy who should have went in the second round . Awesome pick .

Bar - B . Doubt he ever makes the nhl but at that point in the draft I feel it was a solid pick .

Holmes - C . Might be a depth option way down the road . Not my favourite pick though .

Sjoberg - B+ . Really like this pick . Seems like he has a knack for putting the puck in the net . Was surprised no one had taken him yet .
Anyone care to play along ?

I pretty much agree with yours but would have Ertel as a C-minus or a D. Seems like a throw away pick really on a guy who could've gone in the 6th or 7th round, unless they knew someone was gonna take him, but still seems wasteful.

Seems the Stankoven, Martino, and Roulette picks were all great value picks. Grushnikov was frustrating even though he was projected around that range I believe. Was so obvious they were gonna take a dman but why not just take one with the Ertel pick lol. Having a second 2nd rounder is perfect for taking a chance on a guy like Räty or another high end potential guy. As you mentioned there were a few good options available. No coincidence they all got picked within the next several picks

Just think if the Stars took all high offensive potential guys with their first several picks...no Johnston, Grushnikov, or Ertel. One or 2 of them would've likely hit their potential or been an impact NHLer if you have that many

 

[BfantZ]

I pretty much agree with yours but would have Ertel as a C-minus or a D. Seems like a throw away pick really on a guy who could've gone in the 6th or 7th round, unless they knew someone was gonna take him, but still seems wasteful.

Seems the Stankoven, Martino, and Roulette picks were all great value picks. Grushnikov was frustrating even though he was projected around that range I believe. Was so obvious they were gonna take a dman but why not just take one with the Ertel pick lol. Having a second 2nd rounder is perfect for taking a chance on a guy like Räty or another high end potential guy. As you mentioned there were a few good options available. No coincidence they all got picked within the next several picks

Just think if the Stars took all high offensive potential guys with their first several picks...no Johnston, Grushnikov, or Ertel. One or 2 of them would've likely hit their potential or been an impact NHLer if you have that many

Totally agree , I would have been very happy with raty , chibrikov or even kisakov there . Or even martino or roulette really lol

 

[Starry Knight]

I am definitely more okay with the Grushnikov pick. He reportedly has really good tools and he could be a player that surprises people next year with his season next year in the OHL.

You also missed Francesco Arcuri, which could be another A to B pick. Had a very strong year in Austria and at the Erie showcase too.

 

[BfantZ]

I am definitely more okay with the Grushnikov pick. He reportedly has really good tools and he could be a player that surprises people next year with his season next year in the OHL.

You also missed Francesco Arcuri, which could be another A to B pick. Had a very strong year in Austria and at the Erie showcase too.

LOL can’t believe I forgot to put arcuri in . He was one of my fave purity picks . I give it an A for a 6th round pick .

 

[BfantZ]

I pretty much agree with yours but would have Ertel as a C-minus or a D. Seems like a throw away pick really on a guy who could've gone in the 6th or 7th round, unless they knew someone was gonna take him, but still seems wasteful.

Seems the Stankoven, Martino, and Roulette picks were all great value picks. Grushnikov was frustrating even though he was projected around that range I believe. Was so obvious they were gonna take a dman but why not just take one with the Ertel pick lol. Having a second 2nd rounder is perfect for taking a chance on a guy like Räty or another high end potential guy. As you mentioned there were a few good options available. No coincidence they all got picked within the next several picks

Just think if the Stars took all high offensive potential guys with their first several picks...no Johnston, Grushnikov, or Ertel. One or 2 of them would've likely hit their potential or been an impact NHLer if you have that many

Only thing that has me somewhat okay with ertel is the thought that the stars must have been scouting him hard and really see something there in order to pass up on roulette I’m the 3rd round .

 

[Kcb12345]

 

[Zapp]

@Satan hm elite?

 

[Starry Knight]

I just have a gut feeling that Stankoven is going to make the Stars in the 22-23 season.

 

[Kcb12345]