Dahlin vs Heiskanen

[Murzu]

Heiskanen right now, Dahlin in the future.

 

[Narow]

Truthfully no.

It’s funny because I catch so many games I have centerice so I will catch a lot this year, I’ve watched all the leafs and canucks I’ve watched obviously all of buffalo and a couple other teams but no I haven’t even seen one Dallas game yet but I stay close to what Dallas has done I see they’ve done great defensively and I watch a guy on YouTube who is a huge Dallas fan so I hear about it and I’ve watched all Dallas highlights.

I am going to watch Dallas and the leafs today.




And as for how Rasmus Dahlin has looked? Solid but there’s two ways of looking at this.


On one hand considering the hype has be been tearing the league up? No but entering a team as as 18 year old on a team that bot only was last but not tremendous defensively it’s tough, including playing against great guys on the little ice surface getting used to it still. He played almost 23 minutes in his first game and you see glimpses of a star in the masking. A superstar actually.


He’s been sound, very solid. Rob ray the colour guy has pointed out five plays or so a game he’s done well.

His confidence is sky high when he makes plays he is hot afraid to jump up into the play or get physical as I said he had two great hits in the last two games and his passing and vision has been great. He’s made smart moves in his breakout passes and has won one on one battles on the boards and elsewhere.

A couple mistakes here and there but he’s also had a couple glorious scoring chances.

Hasn’t been Pettersen yet but he’s been very sound and the fact buffalo is 2-1 and has not allowed tons of goals like before says good things even though it’s early.

That’s my early three game take on dahlin hope that helps.

Thank you bro. I wish i could catch some games and see for myself. He was great at every showing i have seen him at.

Heiskanen aswell very intruiging prospects. Enjoy the game today and keep a close eye on nr 4 on dallas he is a treat to watch.

Yeah he will for sure be going up against one of those guys. Last game it was up against Laine and occasionally the Scheifele line. They tried to throw him out against the 2nd line, but I'm wondering which line they will consider as the "2nd line" for the Leafs lol

Haha yeah leafs basically have a scary first line and an even scarier first line.

Will be a very good challenge. And a good game in general. Dallas seem to be on fire right now.

Heiskanen did pretty good against laine right? I can imagine his skating made laine look so slow. For those who dont know heiskanen is probably an elite skater.

 

[EK47]

I just love the Sweden vs Finland rookie battles this year.

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

I just love the Sweden vs Finland rookie battles this year.

Dahlin had god amount of hype so naturally people will question his superiority.

 

[Kcb12345]

Thank you bro. I wish i could catch some games and see for myself. He was great at every showing i have seen him at.

Heiskanen aswell very intruiging prospects. Enjoy the game today and keep a close eye on nr 4 on dallas he is a treat to watch.



Haha yeah leafs basically have a scary first line and an even scarier first line.

Will be a very good challenge. And a good game in general. Dallas seem to be on fire right now.

Heiskanen did pretty good against laine right? I can imagine his skating made laine look so slow. For those who dont know heiskanen is probably an elite skater.

To be honest Laine was pretty invisible all game. He didn't even register a shot so everyone played pretty good against him and the Heiskanen pairing did a good job shutting him down. Klingberg, Lindell, and Heiskanen all played 20+ minutes and the next closest dman was 15. Not sure how that happened exactly but I know he saw plenty of Scheifele/Wheeler/Connor too with that extra ice time. Tough matchups when these guys are all 6'3-6'5 lol but he and the team played them well. I'd like to see him go up against Tavares-Marner personally but the Stars coaches may view that as a more dangerous line and put Klingberg-Lindell up against them. Makes me nervous

What I do know though is Heiskanen certainly won't be facing easy competition really any night.

 

[Narow]

To be honest Laine was pretty invisible all game. He didn't even register a shot so everyone played pretty good against him and the Heiskanen pairing did a good job shutting him down. Klingberg, Lindell, and Heiskanen all played 20+ minutes and the next closest dman was 15. Not sure how that happened exactly but I know he saw plenty of Scheifele/Wheeler/Connor too with that extra ice time. Tough matchups when these guys are all 6'3-6'5 lol but he and the team played them well. I'd like to see him go up against Tavares-Marner personally but the Stars coaches may view that as a more dangerous line and put Klingberg-Lindell up against them. Makes me nervous

Laine is probably played with little with limited minutes...5v5 they are a mismatch even tho their advanced stats look great they barely produce together. Just dont compliment eachother. But it may also ofcourse be that the stars simply outplayed them. Hope so atleast.

I think heiskanen does fine even against the leafs. I want to see him against matthews personally. Matthews is just such a smart and hard to play against and in my opinion the biggest threat (yes even bigger than tavares and marner) so thats what i want to see. Or heck why not both!?

 

[Albus Dumbledore]

Nice assesment thank you. Wish i could catch tonights game to see fpr myself how he does. He will likely go up against matthews / tavares could be interesting.

no problem. And ill update you after the game as a neutral fan.

 

[Kcb12345]

Laine is probably played with little with limited minutes...5v5 they are a mismatch even tho their advanced stats look great they barely produce together. Just dont compliment eachother. But it may also ofcourse be that the stars simply outplayed them. Hope so atleast.

I think heiskanen does fine even against the leafs. I want to see him against matthews personally. Matthews is just such a smart and hard to play against and in my opinion the biggest threat (yes even bigger than tavares and marner) so thats what i want to see. Or heck why not both!?

Matthews is on fire right now too. Would be good for Heiskanen's development to go up against someone like that. Don't want Klingberg to get walked by Tavares (again) and Marner though lol so that makes me nervous.

 

[Matt Ress]

Dahlin is bigger, stronger and more physical. Heiskanen is the better skater(And this will not change even after Dahlin develops a little, I believe), Heiskanen has a better shot. Heiskanen has better defensive ability. Does Dahlin have better vision / passing? He might. Is that enough to make up for the defensive game, skating and shot? Not for me.

Heis is a ridiculous skater. With that, RD is also a ridiculous skater but the nod goes to Heis. Size goes to Dahlin and I have to give RD the nod on defense as well considering physicality and gap control even though his positioning and timing isn't quite there yet. Shot goes to Heisk. Slapper and wrister seem more natural. Both great vision and iq both see the ice really well and both can hit teammates in stride. Dahlin is probably a more well rounded defenseman while so far, Heis is more of a threat the other way. Both A+ to watch.

 

[Kcb12345]

Heis is a ridiculous skater. With that, RD is also a ridiculous skater but the nod goes to Heis. Size goes to Dahlin and I have to give RD the nod on defense as well considering physicality and gap control even though his positioning and timing isn't quite there yet. Shot goes to Heisk. Slapper and wrister seem more natural. Both great vision and iq both see the ice really well and both can hit teammates in stride. Dahlin is probably a more well rounded defenseman while so far, Heis is more of a threat the other way. Both A+ to watch.

What do you mean "more of a threat the other way"?

Heiskanen's strong point has always been defense first. Big reason the Stars are using him in a heavy defensive role and he barely gets any offensive zone starts. His offensive chances come from his transition game

 

[ijuka]

Heis is a ridiculous skater. With that, RD is also a ridiculous skater but the nod goes to Heis. Size goes to Dahlin and I have to give RD the nod on defense as well considering physicality and gap control even though his positioning and timing isn't quite there yet. Shot goes to Heisk. Slapper and wrister seem more natural. Both great vision and iq both see the ice really well and both can hit teammates in stride. Dahlin is probably a more well rounded defenseman while so far, Heis is more of a threat the other way. Both A+ to watch.

He needs to be pretty good then. Heiskanen just shut down the best offense in NHL with 18 shots for, 4 against on 5v5, with 23:34 of 5v5 ice time.

 

[Hokinaittii]

Heiskanen is the more valuable player currently. Dahlin can even out the difference as soon as next season though.

Heiskanen will most likely always be better at defending than Dahlin whereas Dahlin will shine more in the offensive zone and as we all know, that's what most people care about hockey players so even if the players are close, Dahlin will always get more hype.

I would be surprised if both players won't be Norris trophy winners at some point in their careers.

 

[tsujimoto74]

Heiskanen is the more valuable player currently. Dahlin can even out the difference as soon as next season though.

Heiskanen will most likely always be better at defending than Dahlin whereas Dahlin will shine more in the offensive zone and as we all know, that's what most people care about hockey players so even if the players are close, Dahlin will always get more hype.

I would be surprised if both players won't be Norris trophy winners at some point in their careers.

I don't think you realize how good defensively Dahlin is. He's not an offensive D. He's supremely offensively skilled, but that's only part of what makes him such a tremendous prospect.

 

[ijuka]

I don't think you realize how good defensively Dahlin is. He's not an offensive D. He's supremely offensively skilled, but that's only part of what makes him such a tremendous prospect.

Do you realize how good Heiskanen is defensively, though? I really would love to see some substance for this that goes further than "You don't realize how good he is", or highlighting a few of his hits.

Every advanced stat is in Heiskanen's favor, most by a massive margin. For instance, relative xGF% is +9.32 for Heiskanen, -22.28 for Dahlin. Relative corsi against/60 Heiskanen -18.11 Dahlin +12.11. So, where's the substance for you saying this over and over again? I hope you realize that if you can say that Dahlin looks like a 10-year defender, I can easily say that Heiskanen looks like a 10-year defender as well. That's no substance.

By the way, me picking relative stats to compare with favors Dahlin. Heiskanen's absolute stats destroy Dahlin's far worse. But I assume that's because of Stars being a better team than Sabres, I guess. Indeed, Ristolainen's defensive stats to this point destroy Dahlin's, whereas Heiskanen's destroy Klingberg's. Also, I think it's safe to say Klingberg is far superior to Ristolainen.

Of course, if you very favorably cherry pick situations where Dahlin looks "good" to the eye test and hype them up selectively as something spectacular, people will think that he's doing amazingly. But the substance at this point is lacking completely. Still, if we're comparing to Heiskanen and doing the same thing with him, I doubt he'd come even close to losing to Dahlin regardless.

 

[Aladyyn]

Do you realize how good Heiskanen is defensively, though? I really would love to see some substance for this that goes further than "You don't realize how good he is", or highlighting a few of his hits.

Every advanced stat is in Heiskanen's favor, most by a massive margin. For instance, relative xGF% is +9.32 for Heiskanen, -22.28 for Dahlin. Relative corsi against/60 Heiskanen -18.11 Dahlin +12.11. So, where's the substance for you saying this over and over again? I hope you realize that if you can say that Dahlin looks like a 10-year defender, I can easily say that Heiskanen looks like a 10-year defender as well. That's no substance.

By the way, me picking relative stats to compare with favors Dahlin. Heiskanen's absolute stats destroy Dahlin's far worse. But I assume that's because of Stars being a better team than Sabres, I guess. Indeed, Ristolainen's defensive stats to this point destroy Dahlin's, whereas Heiskanen's destroy Klingberg's. Also, I think it's safe to say Klingberg is far superior to Ristolainen.

Of course, if you very favorably cherry pick situations where Dahlin looks "good" to the eye test and hype them up selectively as something spectacular, people will think that he's doing amazingly. But the substance at this point is lacking completely. Still, if we're comparing to Heiskanen and doing the same thing with him, I doubt he'd come even close to losing to Dahlin regardless.

Are you seriously using stats in this sample size lmfao

 

[Hokinaittii]

I don't think you realize how good defensively Dahlin is. He's not an offensive D. He's supremely offensively skilled, but that's only part of what makes him such a tremendous prospect.

I know excactly what kind of defender Dahlin is. Heiskanen is just better and more flawless than Dahlin at what he does in the defensive zone which is fine because Dahlin has other attributes that could someday make him better player than Heiskanen.

 

[ijuka]

Are you seriously using stats in this sample size lmfao

So what do you think would be -better- to use with this sample size than stats? Eye test, with the same sample size? Yes, I'm saying that in -eye test-, Heiskanen has been better than Dahlin. Then I -support- my statement by presenting numerous stats backing that up. Heiskanen kept the Leafs offense to 4 shots, while his team had 18 shots for while he was on the ice. Leafs scored 7 goals that game, none during the time Heiskanen was on the ice.

Leafs shots with Heiskanen on the ice(23:51, no special teams): 4
Leafs shots with Heiskanen not on the ice: 25

How much of it do you think was pure coincidence?


I don't know how good Heiskanen or Dahlin will be for the rest of the season, obviously. But up until this point, Heiskanen has been better defensively both by metrics that can be measured(stats) and not measured(eye test). And it's not particularly close.

And by the way, I've seen plenty of games by Rasmus Dahlin and Miro Heiskanen last season as well, and even the season before.

I have been so surprised with Dahlin so far. He plays like a 28 year old vet out there. I used to think his brain was his biggest asset, but it maybe be his balls.

Well, these comments are exactly the ones I'm referring to as having no substance. It doesn't even analyze his actual play.

 

[Hasek]

I have been so surprised with Dahlin so far. He plays like a 28 year old vet out there. I used to think his brain was his biggest asset, but it maybe be his balls.

 

[Matt Ress]

What do you mean "more of a threat the other way"?

Heiskanen's strong point has always been defense first. Big reason the Stars are using him in a heavy defensive role and he barely gets any offensive zone starts. His offensive chances come from his transition game

Thanks for hashing that out. That is what I meant. Although I think we haven't seen any end to ends from RD because he makes a great first pass consistently. He finds an open outlet and hits his man like every time. Sabres fans would love to see an end to end but are mostly just as happy to see Dahlin consistently and successfully pushing the puck up ice. He picks some great spots to jump into the O zone deep and hasn't cashed in yet but he will. It's just a matter of time.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Are you seriously using stats in this sample size lmfao

to be fair, Heiskanen was also better last season.

I think Heiskanen will be better for this year at most and then Dahlin will pass him though