Dahlin is generational.

[Maple Leaf]

heiskenan is better than this cat

 

[catters078]

Can we start a heiskanen vs dahlin thread.

Heiskanen to me is the best rookie D man so far this year.

 

[Asymmetric Solution]

Can we start a heiskanen vs dahlin thread.

Heiskanen to me is the best rookie D man so far this year.

As a Stars fan I’m not surprised. There’s not a GM in the NHL that would trade Dahlin for Heiskanen. Not a Heis, he’s just not Dahlin

 

[libertarian]

Toews, Gretzky, Orr, Lidstrom, Matthews, Lemieux and?

Who's number 7?

Toews and Matthews do not belong in that list. Great players but no where near to Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr and Lidsrtom.

 

[libertarian]

There's only one generational player in the league right now and it's Rantanen

Other then maybe McD there has not been a generational player since Lemieux. And McD still has a long way to go to prove he is in that category.

 

[Royal Thunder]

Name the things that he's doing that are historic please.

3rd 18 year old dman in history to have double digit points after his first two months, only Orr and Housley have done it. Only those two all time greats have bested his scoring pace as an 18 year old D, and Dahlin is still 18 until April.

Not saying he is or isn't generational, more saying that if he isn't than Orr is probably the only one in history.

 

[Kalamazoo Wings]

Has Dahlin actually tickled the twine in the NHL yet? Both his goals looked sorta odd to me. Like he just rushed the crease and poked a loose puck in. Until he starts sniping, like actually takes a shot and scores, let's tap the brakes on this generational talk. Baby steps.

 

[libertarian]

The only generational players ever are:

Howie Morenz: First player to be a totally dominate player in his prime in the NHL and change the game up until his career ended.

Maurice Richard: Destroyed past scoring records and first player to score 50 in 50. A record that lasted over 25 years. For his era it is like scoring 75 goals in 75 games today.

Gordy Howe: The greatest player of his time that can score, was a great playmaker, and also the toughest meanest player in the league. Think about who is the best fighter today and also winning the scoring championships. Played 4 decades of competitive hockey. No one before or since has come close to his ability to be a NHL/WHA player at the age of 50. The ultimate greatest iron man in history.

Bobby Orr: Greatest defencemen that ever lived. Before Orr defencemen were all about defence and any offence was a luxury if a Dman scored at all. Orr changed all that. He won the scoring tidal twice and produce 6 consecutive season of a 100 points or more. Totally unheard of before Orr. Change the game on how defencemen were looked at for offensive capabilities by the NHL GM's. If he could of stayed healthy he may be the greatest player of all time. Definitely the greatest player that ever lived up until Gretzky.

Wayne Gretzky: Greatest player that ever lived. Not only did he break over 50 all time records over his career he destroyed all of them. There has not been a player before or since that has dominated the league like he did in his prime. No one today holds a candle to Gretzky at his best. Still holds all the scoring records almost 20 years after he retired.

Mario Lemieux: The only forward in history that actually can challenge Gretzky as one of the best ever. If Mario could of stayed healthy through his prime he may of challenged some of Gretzky's records but I still think he would be 2nd best. Mario was bigger and faster and almost as talented as Gretzky but was not at Gretzky's level. Absolutely the 2nd greatest forward that ever lived. The fact that both of these player played in the same era is a testament on good that era was.

These are the only generational players in NHL history.

I classified them by era first but for the best of the best is:

Gretzky
Orr
Lemieux
Howe
Richard
Morenz

No one today can be called generational but that does not mean they are not great players of their era.

 

[Beerz]

I see it as being two different categories. We have Generational prospects and Generational players.

I see Dahlin as a generational prospect and has a long ways to go to be a generational player.

McDavid was a generational prospect...we will see where he ends up..so far so good.

 

[biotk]

3rd 18 year old dman in history to have double digit points after his first two months, only Orr and Housley have done it. Only those two all time greats have bested his scoring pace as an 18 year old D, and Dahlin is still 18 until April.

Not saying he is or isn't generational, more saying that if he isn't than Orr is probably the only one in history.

At least 4 have done it before Dahlin.

D with double digits points by the end of October:
Doug Bodger - 20 GP - 11 Pts. 18 years, 165 days.
Rasmus Dahlin - 27 GP - 14 Pts. 18 years, 231 days.
Bobby Orr - 15 GP - 11 Pts. 18 years, 255 days
Phil Housley - 21 GP - 17 Pts. 18 years, 271 days.
Aaron Ekblad - 21 GP - 11 Pts. 18 years, 294 days.

(As you also mentioned pace - all 4 had higher PPG after 2 months, although in the case of Bodger and Ekblad it was just by a bit. Regardless, it is a hell of a debut, and I am proud of the team for easing Dahlin in at the start of the season, and yet he still has accomplished what he has so far. I consider him a generational D prospect.)

 

[Bustedprospect]

Has Dahlin actually tickled the twine in the NHL yet? Both his goals looked sorta odd to me. Like he just rushed the crease and poked a loose puck in. Until he starts sniping, like actually takes a shot and scores, let's tap the brakes on this generational talk. Baby steps.

His shot is by far his weakest point. Not a single goal on international play last season. He scored 8 total but many the same way that he did in NHL or on breakaways.

He will struggle to hit even 15 goals in the NHL.

 

[Bustedprospect]

Chris Pronger, Zdeno Chara, Drew Doughty, Scott Niedermeyer, Niklas Lidstrom, Erik Karlsson.

His name will be in that tier, obviously Lidstrom is the best and probably generational and not all those guys are equal.

Lidstrom is a tier above those guys since he outplayed most of them and they couldnt keep up and hold his jock.

He got more Norrises than they got combined.

 

[tshack]

As someone who is very much not a Pens fan, I don't understand how Sidney Crosby is being left out as a generational player from some of these lists. For his entire career he was the NHL's and international face of hockey, and he has backed that up with his play throughout all of it. 12 years of hockey now, and you really think there isn't a representative that we can point to and say "yeah, I watched him his prime"? Ovechkin is a generational goal scorer, and possibly the best there ever was, and Crosby is a generational all around hockey player. At this point, he's done more than enough to prove himself.

 

[1972]

His shot is by far his weakest point. Not a single goal on international play last season. He scored 8 total but many the same way that he did in NHL or on breakaways.

He will struggle to hit even 15 goals in the NHL.

Niklas Lidstrom didn’t have a booming shot either. If Dahlin is only a 10G guy who puts up 60A no one will care. Rasmus is truly an exceptional young player.

 

[Hasekperreault23]

His shot is by far his weakest point. Not a single goal on international play last season. He scored 8 total but many the same way that he did in NHL or on breakaways.

He will struggle to hit even 15 goals in the NHL.

As an 18 year old who needs to gain 20 pounds once that happens lookout your looking at 20 a year.Biggest things i notice about dahlin is 1,his calmness with the puck,2 his passing ability is mind boggling,3 his hockey IQ is off the charts,4 his lateral skating and stick handling and 5 his defence with ability to punish is high level.His biggest weaknesses see his shot and strength which will increase once he mature s.Housley Essex him in lineup the first 20 games now he is bonafide top minutes guy along with Risto.Btw every defence men on sabres has improved tremendously this year especially Risto Dshlin taking some pressure off of him.All the defence are jumping in the play.Dahlin making everyone better is my point and dahlin just getting better every game.Dont know if he will be generational but will be top 10 in D in two years

His shot is by far his weakest point. Not a single goal on international play last season. He scored 8 total but many the same way that he did in NHL or on breakaways.

He will struggle to hit even 15 goals in the NHL.

 

[Panthaz89]

I don't think he is generational at all. There have been games where he clearly struggled and I refuse to believe Buffalo fans do not actually see this, or notice that in some games. If you call him generational then the bar has really lowered. To me it's like when the you know who's were calling and trying to sell Auston Matthews as generational. Please stop this notion right away.

This is really stupid you were bringing up Vancouver as a game he "struggled" in yet even when he made those he was directly responsible for the 2 chances that let the Sabres tie the game in under a minute despite being down 2 goals with less than 2:30 left thanks to his breakout passes. Its not a coincidence how much likely the Sabres are likely to score with him on the ice compared to the other D on the team.

 

[Hurricane Hugo]

The term "generational" sure is being thrown around a lot these days...

 

[Thenameless]

As much as it pains me to say, Dahlin is a generational defensemen. 18 and already a #1 D in the league, perhaps already a top 10 D. In 2 or 3 years he is going to be a monster and as a fan of a team in the Atlantic he terrifies me.

Easily the Calder will be his and he will win many more trophies and sadly.. probably a cup or two.

Let's just start with #1 D in his rookie year. That's more than good enough for now.

He will be challenged heavily in the Calder by it looks like a couple of guys.

If he does win those Norris Trophies, Hart Trophies, Conn Smythe Trophies, and Stanley Cups down the line, then we can call him generational. Right now, he's got a ways to go to even catch non-generational defensemen like Doughty, Karlsson, and Keith.

 

[kesleaf]

The only generational players ever are:

Howie Morenz: First player to be a totally dominate player in his prime in the NHL and change the game up until his career ended.

Maurice Richard: Destroyed past scoring records and first player to score 50 in 50. A record that lasted over 25 years. For his era it is like scoring 75 goals in 75 games today.

Gordy Howe: The greatest player of his time that can score, was a great playmaker, and also the toughest meanest player in the league. Think about who is the best fighter today and also winning the scoring championships. Played 4 decades of competitive hockey. No one before or since has come close to his ability to be a NHL/WHA player at the age of 50. The ultimate greatest iron man in history.

Bobby Orr: Greatest defencemen that ever lived. Before Orr defencemen were all about defence and any offence was a luxury if a Dman scored at all. Orr changed all that. He won the scoring tidal twice and produce 6 consecutive season of a 100 points or more. Totally unheard of before Orr. Change the game on how defencemen were looked at for offensive capabilities by the NHL GM's. If he could of stayed healthy he may be the greatest player of all time. Definitely the greatest player that ever lived up until Gretzky.

Wayne Gretzky: Greatest player that ever lived. Not only did he break over 50 all time records over his career he destroyed all of them. There has not been a player before or since that has dominated the league like he did in his prime. No one today holds a candle to Gretzky at his best. Still holds all the scoring records almost 20 years after he retired.

Mario Lemieux: The only forward in history that actually can challenge Gretzky as one of the best ever. If Mario could of stayed healthy through his prime he may of challenged some of Gretzky's records but I still think he would be 2nd best. Mario was bigger and faster and almost as talented as Gretzky but was not at Gretzky's level. Absolutely the 2nd greatest forward that ever lived. The fact that both of these player played in the same era is a testament on good that era was.

These are the only generational players in NHL history.

I classified them by era first but for the best of the best is:

Gretzky
Orr
Lemieux
Howe
Richard
Morenz
Matthews

No one today can be called generational but that does not mean they are not great players of their era.

Totally agree with that list. Well done.

 

[Honest M]

Everything you said can also be applied to Heiskanen. Well, maybe not the laying out big hits part since Heiskanen's game is a lot more focused on stripping the pucks with his excellently timed poke checks instead of throwing hits.

From what I've seen in Sabres games, Dahlin is showing he has more flair in the offensive zone than Heiskanen whereas Heiskanen is a lot more comfortable and flawless in his own zone compared to Dahlin, so there's that tradeoff.

Anyway, it seems like there aren't many Sabres/Stars fans who watch both players closely because most of the time the discussion seems to be how much better the other one is compared to other when they are actually so close to each other in talent.

I really love Finns, you are relentlessly pumping the tires of your own if there is a argument for it or not, that is great. Swedes often aims to be so fair and broadminded and there fore often argue against there own players.
I really like your over the top arguments that never ever ends. Like Rantanen is the best hart and art ross fav and also most underrated... by far...
Also i guess you have some extra energy when you argue finns above a swede. Anyway lots of great young Finnish players now no denying that.

About the generational question, not yet anyway. And I would not say a generation is 20 years. I would look at the normal length of peek on a player career, maybe 8-10 years.

 

[Royal Thunder]

At least 4 have done it before Dahlin.

D with double digits points by the end of October:
Doug Bodger - 20 GP - 11 Pts. 18 years, 165 days.
Rasmus Dahlin - 27 GP - 14 Pts. 18 years, 231 days.
Bobby Orr - 15 GP - 11 Pts. 18 years, 255 days
Phil Housley - 21 GP - 17 Pts. 18 years, 271 days.
Aaron Ekblad - 21 GP - 11 Pts. 18 years, 294 days.

(As you also mentioned pace - all 4 had higher PPG after 2 months, although in the case of Bodger and Ekblad it was just by a bit. Regardless, it is a hell of a debut, and I am proud of the team for easing Dahlin in at the start of the season, and yet he still has accomplished what he has so far. I consider him a generational D prospect.)

Sorry you're right, I got that wrong.

Correction, Dahlin is just the third 18 year old D to get 10 points in one of his first two months.

 

[Hokinaittii]

I really love Finns, you are relentlessly pumping the tires of your own if there is a argument for it or not, that is great. Swedes often aims to be so fair and broadminded and there fore often argue against there own players.
I really like your over the top arguments that never ever ends. Like Rantanen is the best hart and art ross fav and also most underrated... by far...
Also i guess you have some extra energy when you argue finns above a swede. Anyway lots of great young Finnish players now no denying that.

About the generational question, not yet anyway. And I would not say a generation is 20 years. I would look at the normal length of peek on a player career, maybe 8-10 years.

I don't know what that nonsense of a post had to do with me since I have never claimed Rantanen to be anything nor have I hardly taken part in overhyping the players like maybe some of the Finns in the mainboards.

I have only claimed that Heiskanen is a lot better than his hype is currently, and that's based on watching the games, something I feel like many of us here doesn't do when evaluating players.

 

[Phil McKraken]

heiskenan is better than this cat

Hey, he's a human being, not a feline. At worst he's a human bean.

 

[Boxscore]

The only generational players ever are:

Howie Morenz: First player to be a totally dominate player in his prime in the NHL and change the game up until his career ended.

Maurice Richard: Destroyed past scoring records and first player to score 50 in 50. A record that lasted over 25 years. For his era it is like scoring 75 goals in 75 games today.

Gordy Howe: The greatest player of his time that can score, was a great playmaker, and also the toughest meanest player in the league. Think about who is the best fighter today and also winning the scoring championships. Played 4 decades of competitive hockey. No one before or since has come close to his ability to be a NHL/WHA player at the age of 50. The ultimate greatest iron man in history.

Bobby Orr: Greatest defencemen that ever lived. Before Orr defencemen were all about defence and any offence was a luxury if a Dman scored at all. Orr changed all that. He won the scoring tidal twice and produce 6 consecutive season of a 100 points or more. Totally unheard of before Orr. Change the game on how defencemen were looked at for offensive capabilities by the NHL GM's. If he could of stayed healthy he may be the greatest player of all time. Definitely the greatest player that ever lived up until Gretzky.

Wayne Gretzky: Greatest player that ever lived. Not only did he break over 50 all time records over his career he destroyed all of them. There has not been a player before or since that has dominated the league like he did in his prime. No one today holds a candle to Gretzky at his best. Still holds all the scoring records almost 20 years after he retired.

Mario Lemieux: The only forward in history that actually can challenge Gretzky as one of the best ever. If Mario could of stayed healthy through his prime he may of challenged some of Gretzky's records but I still think he would be 2nd best. Mario was bigger and faster and almost as talented as Gretzky but was not at Gretzky's level. Absolutely the 2nd greatest forward that ever lived. The fact that both of these player played in the same era is a testament on good that era was.

These are the only generational players in NHL history.

I classified them by era first but for the best of the best is:

Gretzky
Orr
Lemieux
Howe
Richard
Morenz

No one today can be called generational but that does not mean they are not great players of their era.

This is a fantastic post. Although, as much as it pains me to say it, I think we need to add Sid to the list of generational players. I would put him up there with Morenz/Rocket, towards the bottom though. Sid is the best player of the "New NHL" generation and golden era of marketing NHL. He's got the numbers, the hardware, the Cups, the Connies, the claim of being the "best player in the NHL" throughout much of his career. He's also been the "face" of the NHL from a marketing/ambassador perspective on a level above Howe, Orr or Lemieux. Only Gretzky had more fanfare and exposure than Sid, minus the Rocket in Quebec Province of course.

 

[wetcoast]

The only generational players ever are:

Howie Morenz: First player to be a totally dominate player in his prime in the NHL and change the game up until his career ended.

Maurice Richard: Destroyed past scoring records and first player to score 50 in 50. A record that lasted over 25 years. For his era it is like scoring 75 goals in 75 games today.

Gordy Howe: The greatest player of his time that can score, was a great playmaker, and also the toughest meanest player in the league. Think about who is the best fighter today and also winning the scoring championships. Played 4 decades of competitive hockey. No one before or since has come close to his ability to be a NHL/WHA player at the age of 50. The ultimate greatest iron man in history.

Bobby Orr: Greatest defencemen that ever lived. Before Orr defencemen were all about defence and any offence was a luxury if a Dman scored at all. Orr changed all that. He won the scoring tidal twice and produce 6 consecutive season of a 100 points or more. Totally unheard of before Orr. Change the game on how defencemen were looked at for offensive capabilities by the NHL GM's. If he could of stayed healthy he may be the greatest player of all time. Definitely the greatest player that ever lived up until Gretzky.

Wayne Gretzky: Greatest player that ever lived. Not only did he break over 50 all time records over his career he destroyed all of them. There has not been a player before or since that has dominated the league like he did in his prime. No one today holds a candle to Gretzky at his best. Still holds all the scoring records almost 20 years after he retired.

Mario Lemieux: The only forward in history that actually can challenge Gretzky as one of the best ever. If Mario could of stayed healthy through his prime he may of challenged some of Gretzky's records but I still think he would be 2nd best. Mario was bigger and faster and almost as talented as Gretzky but was not at Gretzky's level. Absolutely the 2nd greatest forward that ever lived. The fact that both of these player played in the same era is a testament on good that era was.

These are the only generational players in NHL history.

I classified them by era first but for the best of the best is:

Gretzky
Orr
Lemieux
Howe
Richard
Morenz

No one today can be called generational but that does not mean they are not great players of their era.

Morenz and Richard have zero business in being listed as generational on list that only has 6 players of all time.

Maybe if a generational list was 40 or 50 players long.