Dahlin and Hughes vs Makar and Heiskanen

[Cousin Eddie]

Hughes has 21 points in 25 games, he's a year younger, and he's playing on a worse team.

Here’s Colorado’s current projected lineup.

Nieto Mackinnon Donskoi
Jost Kadri Compher
Tynan Bellemare Nichushkin
Kamenev O’Connor Dries

Zadorov Makar
Girard Rosen
Graves Cole

Makar and Mackinnon are carrying this team on their back. Pure dominance by both of them. Makar isn’t a product of a good team. He’s putting a bad team on his back.

 

[tony d]

Makar and Heiskanen.

 

[Future GOAT]

Mak and Heis.

 

[CherryToke]

Hughes is playing on one of the highest scoring powerplay units in the league.

Hughes is the main reason for that PP success. They were f***ing dreadful before he took over.

 

[MrHeiskanen]

Makar/Heiskanen and it isn't close.

 

[Regal]

Hughes is playing on one of the highest scoring powerplay units in the league. His 5 v 5 scoring is not even above average.

Also have you seen the Avs lineup lately? It's Mackinnon and Makar, and then a bunch of guys who were in the bottom six or AHL last year. Rantanen and Landeskog have missed most of the season.

Hughes's 5v5 scoring is overblown. The Canucks have been brutal at scoring 5v5 for most of the season, and it's not on Hughes. Meanwhile, Colorado has the highest G/60 5v5 in the league despite their lineup, and that's not all on Makar. Defensemen can only do so much if the forwards can't put the puck in the net.

 

[majormajor]

Hughes's 5v5 scoring is overblown. The Canucks have been brutal at scoring 5v5 for most of the season, and it's not on Hughes. Meanwhile, Colorado has the highest G/60 5v5 in the league despite their lineup, and that's not all on Makar. Defensemen can only do so much if the forwards can't put the puck in the net.

Well, most defensemen, yes.

 

[Snowsii]

Well, most defensemen, yes.

Did he turn MacKinnon from 60p player to a 97p player?

 

[Connor McConnor]

Dahlin

Makar/Heisk
Hughes

I see Dahlin as the clearcut #1 going forward and I always think taking the best player is the way to go even if Hughes isn't quite as good as the other 2. I went Dahlin-Hughes.

 

[avsfan9]

Dahlin

Makar/Heisk
Hughes

I see Dahlin as the clearcut #1 going forward and I always think taking the best player is the way to go even if Hughes isn't quite as good as the other 2. I went Dahlin-Hughes.

If Dahlin was going to be far and away better than he would be better right now which he is not. Not a Mcdavid caliber d man anyways. I think these four will be close throughout their whole careers.

 

[Connor McConnor]

If Dahlin was going to be far and away better than he would be better right now which he is not. Not a Mcdavid caliber d man anyways. I think these four will be close throughout their whole careers.

What? He's 2 years younger than Makar and didn't spend those 2 years further developing in a minor league like Makar did because he was good enough at 18. He's clearly above the rest and it's not that close. That's not even considering the fact that it generally takes D-men longer to hit their prime so comparing him to a forward makes no sense.

I get it, you love your new toy and who wouldn't, Cale is awesome. But no need to be blind by your own ignorance here.

 

[hcg]

Well, most defensemen, yes.

So are you guys just gonna have a poisoned punch party when it turns out that Makar shooting 23% isn't sustainable?

 

[hcg]

What? He's 2 years younger than Makar and didn't spend those 2 years further developing in a minor league like Makar did because he was good enough at 18. He's clearly above the rest and it's not that close. That's not even considering the fact that it generally takes D-men longer to hit their prime so comparing him to a forward makes no sense.

I get it, you love your new toy and who wouldn't, Cale is awesome. But no need to be blind by your own ignorance here.

Oh please let Dahlin be the new comparison.

 

[klozge]

So are you guys just gonna have a poisoned punch party when it turns out that Makar shooting 23% isn't sustainable?

You think a lower shooting % will make Makar anything less than awesome? This just shows you don't have an idea of what kind of defenseman he is.

 

[hcg]

You think a lower shooting % will make Makar anything less than awesome? This just shows you don't have an idea of what kind of defenseman he is.

If Makar had a more reasonable shooting percentage he would probably have 3, maybe 4 goals this month.

It's not actually a huge difference, it's just recognizing that he's clearly on an unsustainable hot streak right now.

If he was shooting more like 10% he still gets enough shots that translates to about 20 goals. That's a great total for any dman and a crazy total for a rookie.

I think most of us have a pretty good idea what kind of dman Makar is, and we're impressed. He's just not on some insane other level. He's not a McDavid or Crosby or Ovechkin. You say he's going to challenge for a Norris someday. That's fine, but in any year there is at least a dozen guys who could step up and challenge for the norris. Did anyone see Gio winning 2 years when he was 34 and coming off 2 <40 point seasons? It makes Makar part of an elite group, but he's not separated the way McDavid is.

 

[klozge]

If Makar had a more reasonable shooting percentage he would probably have 3, maybe 4 goals this month.

It's not actually a huge difference, it's just recognizing that he's clearly on an unsustainable hot streak right now.

If he was shooting more like 10% he still gets enough shots that translates to about 20 goals. That's a great total for any dman and a crazy total for a rookie.

I think most of us have a pretty good idea what kind of dman Makar is, and we're impressed. He's just not on some insane other level. He's not a McDavid or Crosby or Ovechkin. You say he's going to challenge for a Norris someday. That's fine, but in any year there is at least a dozen guys who could step up and challenge for the norris. Did anyone see Gio winning 2 years when he was 34 and coming off 2 <40 point seasons? It makes Makar part of an elite group, but he's not separated the way McDavid is.

Nobody's comparing him to McDavid. Avs fans just say he's better than Hughes right now. Calm down.

 

[Mac Attack]

So are you guys just gonna have a poisoned punch party when it turns out that Makar shooting 23% isn't sustainable?

Sounds like a good plan. I've been riding a Makar high for so long now that I'm gonna be fried when it ends.

 

[Agent Zub]

Here’s Colorado’s current projected lineup.

Nieto Mackinnon Donskoi
Jost Kadri Compher
Tynan Bellemare Nichushkin
Kamenev O’Connor Dries

Zadorov Makar
Girard Rosen
Graves Cole

Makar and Mackinnon are carrying this team on their back. Pure dominance by both of them. Makar isn’t a product of a good team. He’s putting a bad team on his back.

That's a pretty good team. And Mackinnion makes any team competitive every night.

 

[Sasso09]

Makar is the best offensive, Heiskanen the best defensive. Clear win for me. Dahlin and Hughes have a ton of development time ahead of them, so it's not a closed question now, but Makar and Heiskanen are only a bit older and are already Norris quality players.

Fully expect Dahlin to be best at both ends ultimately. Much has been said about Heiskanen defensively but it's overstated, his defensive advantage is there but it's not significant at this point.

Too close to call for me.

 

[Sasso09]

I truly believe Heiskanen and Makar are top 10 D right now. Dahlin and Hughes have age on their side but it’s only 1-2 years in the difference. Makar and Heiskanen are far and away the best two of these four right now and are young enough to improve as well.

I’ll take the safe 2.

Im really curious to see your top 10 defensemen list

 

[BCNate]

There are a lot of opinions in this thread, but many of them seem to be based off of the eye test and are not supported by any data. Here is what the number say, comparing Hughes and Makar's rookie season vs rookie seasons for Dahlin and Heiskanen (I have their current season in brackets for reference):

Goals per game:
Makar .30
Heiskanen .15 (.21)
Dahlin .11 (.04)
Hughes .07

Assists per game
Hughes .78
Makar .69
Dahlin .43 (.63)
Heiskanen .26 (.39)

Points per game
Makar 1.0
Hughes .85
Dahlin .54 (.67)
Heiskanen .40 (.61)

CF% (% of time players team has the puck when they are on the ice)
Hughes 54.9
Dahlin 52.7 (49.7)
Heiskanen 50.9 (51.6)
Makar 49.9

Defensive Point Shares (# of points player contributes due to their defense)
Heiskanen 4.3 (2.6)
Dahlin 3.4 (1.0)
Makar 1.4
Hughes 1.2

Defensive zone starts (% of defensive zone starts at even strength)
Hughes 47.7
Heiskanen 47.2 (48.1)
Dahlin 41.1 (39.3)
Makar 39.2

Take from this what you will.

 

[Unspecified]

Makar/Heiskanen without batting an eye.

 

[Unspecified]

What? He's 2 years younger than Makar and didn't spend those 2 years further developing in a minor league like Makar did because he was good enough at 18. He's clearly above the rest and it's not that close. That's not even considering the fact that it generally takes D-men longer to hit their prime so comparing him to a forward makes no sense.

I get it, you love your new toy and who wouldn't, Cale is awesome. But no need to be blind by your own ignorance here.

Dahlin played in Frölunda SHL which is their pro league and Makar played in the NCAA which has far fewer good players than Sweden has. Had Makar opted to play in Europe he would be even better than he already is. So this age difference you speak of mean diddly shit in the grand scheme of things. Makar right now is better than Dahlin was at any point last season and this season, hell combined even. However please post more stupid shit about an age gap that seems to be your ONLY defense.

Then you throw Heiskanen into the mix with Makar and it really is not close whatsoever.

 

[Canovin]

Heiskanen and Makar together is franchise changing

 

[Crabapple]

I would gladly have either pair, but if push comes to shove I'll go with Dahlin who I think can be the best of the bunch, but isn't at the moment.