RD Victor Soderstrom (2019, 11th, ARZ)

[rt]

Chychrun made the team as a 16th overall pick. And he was phenomenal.

 

[theslatcher]

I’m sure he played well. I never claimed he isn’t good or didn’t play well, like the guy above tried to assert.

Most 11th overall picks do not come in with a chance to make the team, and if they are an AHL-eligible player who ends up being very close to making the team, I suspect they’d be playing in the AHL.

If he was actually close to making the team and was the next player in on defense, you start him in the AHL and he’ll be called up within a month when the team inevitably needs a defensemen. He’d probably see a lot of games, as well, for the NHL team.

If what you are weighing with where you play him this season is where the kid feels comfortable, it’s probably not mainly a sporting decision and he probably didn’t have a real chance to make the team. I’ve not heard of very many situations where an NHL team is asking a player who they expect to play for them during a season if that player wants to play for them or if they’d feel more comfortable playing in Europe. Usually the team would make a unilateral decision there. That’s if the player was within the circle of players the team plans to use during the course of a season. As I said, I don’t think he had much of a chance to play for the NHL team this season.

Victor made it very clear that if he didn't make the NHL from the get-go, he wanted to play for Brynäs. That's what he had said from day 1.

 

[VictorLustig]

Victor made it very clear that if he didn't make the NHL from the get-go, he wanted to play for Brynäs. That's what he had said from day 1.

Apparently his father and agent advised him to get an SHL out clause in his ELC. Not sure the AHL was even an option after that.

 

[Hockeyfrilla]

First goal after returning to SHL

 

[XX]

First goal after returning to SHL

Anyone watching the games that can tell us how he is playing and what pairing he is on?

 

[theslatcher]

Anyone watching the games that can tell us how he is playing and what pairing he is on?

Don't really watch Brynäs, but he's playing on the top pairing.

He averages the second highest ATOI on his team.

 

[VictorLustig]

Söderström is having a good season so far. 1+1 yesterday and was robbed of another goal by the refs.

 

[Name Nameless]

Söderström is having a good season so far. 1+1 yesterday and was robbed of another goal by the refs.

Interference call on #22 there? Looks like very little contact and embellishment...

Well, nothing wrong with Soderstroms shot at least. Looking nice.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Didn’t make the World Junior team. Do Arizona fans still think parading him around the first two months instead of letting him play all season with Brynas was worth it?

 

[Admiral Swedge]

Didn’t make the World Junior team. Do Arizona fans still think parading him around the first two months instead of letting him play all season with Brynas was worth it?

I'm not going to pretend I keep up with the goings of Swedish hockey, but when there's an almost unanimous agreement that Söderström should be on the world junior team it leads me to believe the Coyotes keeping him around a bit longer than expected didn't have a huge impact on the outcome.

By all accounts he's having a very successful season, so I'm not going to worry too much about him missing the tournament.

 

[Prarievarg]

Didn’t make the World Junior team. Do Arizona fans still think parading him around the first two months instead of letting him play all season with Brynas was worth it?

He wanted to make the team. He was given a chance to make the team. He came close but was ultimately told he was gonna start the year in the AHL. He opted to go back to Sweden instead to be closer to the national team. I have no idea where you are getting your parade part from.

It's not like his play in the SHL is suffering because of the missed games at the start of the season either.

This is just Montén being Montén. And has nothing to do with either Söderström or the Coyotes.

 

[XX]

I have no idea where you are getting your parade part from.

He believes Soderstrom wasn't good enough to stay with the team until the last moment aka he didn't watch a single minute of his play in the prospect games or preseason but nevertheless felt qualified to comment.

 

[theslatcher]

Didn’t make the World Junior team. Do Arizona fans still think parading him around the first two months instead of letting him play all season with Brynas was worth it?

I don't understand your post. The reason he didn't make the team isn't his play nor attitude. Sweden's coach is really bad. That's why. Or do you honestly believe Ginning, & Norlinder(I'd throw in Broberg, Lundkvist, & Björnfot too) are better than him?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I'm not going to pretend I keep up with the goings of Swedish hockey, but when there's an almost unanimous agreement that Söderström should be on the world junior team it leads me to believe the Coyotes keeping him around a bit longer than expected didn't have a huge impact on the outcome.

By all accounts he's having a very successful season, so I'm not going to worry too much about him missing the tournament.

Of course, it did. He missed the Brynas training camp, he missed the start of their season and he missed the August U20 tournament for Sweden. It all had an effect. When he got back to Brynas, he was behind in fitness as his teammates had already been a few weeks into their regular season, and nearly two months since they started playing exhibitions. He wasn't only behind his teammates, he was behind other contenders to make the team that were playing this season in Sweden. As we see, Norlinder took his spot. Norlinder wasn't in Montreal during preseason. He's played nearly double the amount of games this season as Soderstrom.

I feel bad for the kid, as I think he should've made it, but Chayka got exactly what he deserved. There was no reason to bring Soderstrom over to NA for him to play some preseason NHL games. It resulted in Soderstrom not making the WJC team because Chayka had to parade him around for a month.

He wanted to make the team. He was given a chance to make the team. He came close but was ultimately told he was gonna start the year in the AHL. He opted to go back to Sweden instead to be closer to the national team. I have no idea where you are getting your parade part from.

It's not like his play in the SHL is suffering because of the missed games at the start of the season either.

This is just Montén being Montén. And has nothing to do with either Söderström or the Coyotes.

They all want to make the team and play in the NHL right away. If they aren't going to make it, you don't upend their development because they want to make the team.

No one said his play in the SHL has suffered. What suffered was his place on the depth chart with the Swedish U20 team. Norlidner has played nearly double the amount of games this season. Soderstrom has missed every camp for the Swedish U20 team. Was a reason ever given why he missed the WJSS? Did Chayka not let him participate in that either? I saw nothing about an injury during the summer.

And the point has nothing to do with Monten. This is about Chayka, and his decision to upend Soderstrom's season, which allowed Monten to contemplate the decision in the first place.

He believes Soderstrom wasn't good enough to stay with the team until the last moment aka he didn't watch a single minute of his play in the prospect games or preseason but nevertheless felt qualified to comment.

In other words, you can't defend your management, so you try to discredit the source of the criticism.

How is it going with Hayton playing 13th forward for the Coyotes? Do you still support that decision from Chayka? I'm sure there's a great explanation for that, as well.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I don't understand your post. The reason he didn't make the team isn't his play nor attitude. Sweden's coach is really bad. That's why. Or do you honestly believe Ginning, & Norlinder(I'd throw in Broberg, Lundkvist, & Björnfot too) are better than him?

My point wasn't about the personnel of the Swedish team.

Soderstrom had no chance to make the Coyotes out of preseason. Nevertheless, he was paraded around Arizona, while he should've been with Brynas to start the season. He missed all of training camp, all of preseason, the start of the regular season, and two U20 camps in about a one month stretch because of this decision by Arizona.

NHL teams have to stop doing this. Upending the season's of European players who have no chance to make the NHL team to parade them around for a month and put them into a few preseason games does them a lot of bad. We see one of the negative byproducts here with Soderstrom missing the World Junior team.

 

[LuckyNumber11]

Soderstrom had no chance to make the Coyotes out of preseason.

Yes he did. Chychrun made our team out of the draft a few years ago and Soderstrom was absolutely given the opportunity to do the same. He only had to beat out Jordan Oesterle and Ilya Lybushkin, but alas he was not ready. No harm no foul, and it hasn't done anything to his development path. Sweden has a deep defense, and their coach just made a decision away from Soderstrom. While I'd love to see him in the WJC, us keeping him through preseason has nothing to do with this decision

 

[XX]

In other words, you can't defend your management, so you try to discredit the source of the criticism.

How is it going with Hayton playing 13th forward for the Coyotes? Do you still support that decision from Chayka? I'm sure there's a great explanation for that, as well.

Everyone that watched the player understood why he was the last cut in camp. You did not watch the player. You have an intense, irrational dislike of Chayka. You are not arguing in good faith, so there's nothing to 'discredit'. You keep insisting Soderstrom had no chance when a.) the Coyotes put Chychrun into the lineup straight out of the draft and he was great and b.) it has been explained to you multiple times that the player is allowed to choose the path they feel best, so Arizona was happy to send him back to Sweden, because that's what Soderstrom felt was best for him this year.

Hayton has been great, by the way. Thanks for asking.

I don't know why obvious trolls are allowed to shit up prospect threads but here we are

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Everyone that watched the player understood why he was the last cut in camp. You did not watch the player. You have an intense, irrational dislike of Chayka. You are not arguing in good faith, so there's nothing to 'discredit'. You keep insisting Soderstrom had no chance when a.) the Coyotes put Chychrun into the lineup straight out of the draft and he was great and b.) it has been explained to you multiple times that the player is allowed to choose the path they feel best, so Arizona was happy to send him back to Sweden, because that's what Soderstrom felt was best for him this year.

Hayton has been great, by the way. Thanks for asking.

I don't know why obvious trolls are allowed to **** up prospect threads but here we are

If anyone's trolling, it's you. You are claiming things about my opinion that you don't know to be true, and hoping they stick. But I don't lie about what I do and don't watch. I have no reason to. I didn't watch him in preseason, nor do I need to watch an irrelevant prospect tournament or preseason games to have an opinion on whether a player has a chance to make an NHL team.

And you are completely trying to misdirect here about Soderstrom's chances to make the team by hiding behind having watched some preseason games. Newsflash: Undersized defensemen picked outside the top 10 who've never played on NA ice usually don't start their 18 year old season in the NHL. I guess if they play for Winnipeg, who is bringing in defensemen off the streets, they might, but Arizona didn't have a place open for Soderstrom. Chychrun is an athletic beast, Soderstrom isn't. Their NHL readiness shouldn't be compared. And while Chychrun was ready physically, was he ready in other aspects of the game? An argument could be made he'd be better had he not started in the NHL.

If Arizona fans believed Soderstrom had a real chance to make the team, why didn't they mention so beforehand? Why was it only after the fact? Like all teams, the players in any given NHL camp are known months in advance. It's not very hard to figure out which of those players do and don't have a chance to make the team, yet you want me to believe there was such a big change in whether Soderstrom had a chance based on a few preseason games? I don't think most people are dumb enough to buy into that.

Besides, is Soderstrom not making the World Junior team not relevant? Why is this discussion off limits and in need of a moderator to come save you? The player didn't make the World Junior team, anyone who isn't a blatant homer should be able to admit that his start to the season might've played a role.

 

[XX]

I didn't watch him in preseason, nor do I need to watch an irrelevant prospect tournament or preseason games to have an opinion on whether a player has a chance to make an NHL team.

Oh okay. You don't need to be familiar with the player to run your mouth about his play. Gotcha. All positive reviews are tire pumping, only you have the true take.

Arizona didn't have a place open for Soderstrom.

They absolutely did and Hjalmarsson going down 4 games into the season would have opened up yet another spot. So I guess now you don't have to watch the player AND you don't need any actual knowledge of the organization he is in to comment.

And while Chychrun was ready physically, was he ready in other aspects of the game? An argument could be made he'd be better had he not started in the NHL.

Chychrun is now the de facto #1 due to him outplaying OEL. He's 21. It's hard to imagine it going any better. After his first healthy offseason, he looks amazing. Another strike against your concern trolling.

If Arizona fans believed Soderstrom had a real chance to make the team, why didn't they mention so beforehand? Why was it only after the fact?

Because it's not reasonable to expect someone to step into the lineup right after the draft but it can happen. It happened with Chychrun. He forced his way onto the team with his play. Soderstrom was lights out. We're thrilled with the pick. You can personally go through the prospect and preseason game threads on the Coyotes forum to see just how much Soderstrom popped and how people quickly realized he was much further along than advertised.

Besides, is Soderstrom not making the World Junior team not relevant? Why is this discussion off limits and in need of a moderator to come save you? The player didn't make the World Junior team, anyone who isn't a blatant homer should be able to admit that his start to the season might've played a role.

It's been explained by pretty much everyone that's familiar with the player and his role in the national team that the coach has a shameless grudge against him. It's certainly not due to his SHL play. As if we're supposed to be pissed that Soderstrom is a top pairing guy at 18 in a men's league. Do you know how ridiculous you sound?

Most Arizona fans don't care what the main board thinks of our prospects, and for good reason. I imagine it's a similar story for all the other teams you've unfortunately commented on. You're not fooling anyone and don't have any actual substance to your arguments. It's just "Chayka BAD" over and over again. It doesn't stand up to even a cursory understanding of how things actually played out.

 

[rt]

Oh okay. You don't need to be familiar with the player to run your mouth about his play. Gotcha. All positive reviews are tire pumping, only you have the true take.



They absolutely did and Hjalmarsson going down 4 games into the season would have opened up yet another spot. So I guess now you don't have to watch the player AND you don't need any actual knowledge of the organization he is in to comment.



Chychrun is now the de facto #1 due to him outplaying OEL. He's 21. It's hard to imagine it going any better. After his first healthy offseason, he looks amazing. Another strike against your concern trolling.




Because it's not reasonable to expect someone to step into the lineup right after the draft but it can happen. It happened with Chychrun. He forced his way onto the team with his play. Soderstrom was lights out. We're thrilled with the pick. You can personally go through the prospect and preseason game threads on the Coyotes forum to see just how much Soderstrom popped and how people quickly realized he was much further along than advertised.



It's been explained by pretty much everyone that's familiar with the player and his role in the national team that the coach has a shameless grudge against him. It's certainly not due to his SHL play. As if we're supposed to be pissed that Soderstrom is a top pairing guy at 18 in a men's league. Do you know how ridiculous you sound?

Most Arizona fans don't care what the main board thinks of our prospects, and for good reason. I imagine it's a similar story for all the other teams you've unfortunately commented on. You're not fooling anyone and don't have any actual substance to your arguments. It's just "Chayka BAD" over and over again. It doesn't stand up to even a cursory understanding of how things actually played out.

This is all correct.

 

[greasysnapper]

They absolutely did and Hjalmarsson going down 4 games into the season would have opened up yet another spot. So I guess now you don't have to watch the player AND you don't need any actual knowledge of the organization he is in to comment.

There's not a chance in hell they'd either play Soderstrom on his offside as an 18 year old and sit Oesterle or sit Demers/Goligoski for Soderstrom. He's not ready. He could be a great player, but he's not ready. Playing him could have resulted in huge issues. I am very against the vast majority of players, playing in the NHL at that young of an age with that type of body type. He needs to mature. That's how potential gets destroyed. And for the record it's not a size thing, it's a bone density thing based on his growth charts. I am also against Dach being up, but that's a different story.

Also, I don't know if the door is closed on him yet for the WJC. Lots of time, and I hate to say it, because I don't want to jinx it for any player, but there's a lot of time from now until when rosters have to be finalized, and injuries do happen.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Oh okay. You don't need to be familiar with the player to run your mouth about his play. Gotcha. All positive reviews are tire pumping, only you have the true take.

You only undermine your own argument when you say something like this. I think most people who aren't blatant Arizona homers can see through your deception. Since when does not watching preseason hockey not make someone familiar with a specific player? Thats a crazy standard.

Speak for yourself. I'm more than familiar with Soderstrom. But considering that you want to try telling other people they aren't familiar enough with Soderstrom, why don't you tell us your familiarity with Soderstrom? How many times have you watched him play? How many times did you watch him play pre-draft? This is often when people of your ilk start to clam up and not respond.

They absolutely did and Hjalmarsson going down 4 games into the season would have opened up yet another spot. So I guess now you don't have to watch the player AND you don't need any actual knowledge of the organization he is in to comment.

I'm sure. He played so well and there was a spot for him, yet he didn't make the team. I wonder why. Maybe the way you are portraying things isn't correct.

Chychrun is now the de facto #1 due to him outplaying OEL. He's 21. It's hard to imagine it going any better. After his first healthy offseason, he looks amazing. Another strike against your concern trolling.

Great, but what does that have to do with Soderstrom having a chance to make the NHL this season? You've yet to explain. I explained why comparing Soderstrom and Chychrun was not a good idea.

Because it's not reasonable to expect someone to step into the lineup right after the draft but it can happen. It happened with Chychrun. He forced his way onto the team with his play. Soderstrom was lights out. We're thrilled with the pick. You can personally go through the prospect and preseason game threads on the Coyotes forum to see just how much Soderstrom popped and how people quickly realized he was much further along than advertised.

This makes a lot of sense. In other words, its not worth discussing because you agree that it's a ridiculous suggestion, but once your team might come in for some scrutiny for how the player was handled, then you gotta change direction and in hindsight act like the player had a great chance to make the team. I think it's often a good barometer to look at what people thought beforehand and not after the fact when they have an incentive to try to obfuscate the truth.

QUOTE="XX, post: 167506691, member: 6285"]It's been explained by pretty much everyone that's familiar with the player and his role in the national team that the coach has a shameless grudge against him. It's certainly not due to his SHL play. As if we're supposed to be pissed that Soderstrom is a top pairing guy at 18 in a men's league. Do you know how ridiculous you sound?

Most Arizona fans don't care what the main board thinks of our prospects, and for good reason. I imagine it's a similar story for all the other teams you've unfortunately commented on. You're not fooling anyone and don't have any actual substance to your arguments. It's just "Chayka BAD" over and over again. It doesn't stand up to even a cursory understanding of how things actually played out.

I don't think anyone is saying Monten made a good decision, but trying to completely blame Monten for this is ridiculous. Monten would have no reason to have a grudge against Soderstrom. Arizona held him back from two U20 camps, and upended his start to the season in the SHL. You should take a look in the mirror and stop acting so high and mighty about your team. You did the same thing in another thread when people were criticizing decisions made with Arizona prospects. You can pass it off as everyone hates Chayka. I guess thats an easy way to deflect blame for you, but the facts of the matter are staring you in the face about why Soderstrom's start to the season played a role in not making the team.

 

[rt]

There's not a chance in hell they'd either play Soderstrom on his offside as an 18 year old and sit Oesterle or sit Demers/Goligoski for Soderstrom. He's not ready. He could be a great player, but he's not ready. Playing him could have resulted in huge issues. I am very against the vast majority of players, playing in the NHL at that young of an age with that type of body type. He needs to mature. That's how potential gets destroyed. And for the record it's not a size thing, it's a bone density thing based on his growth charts. I am also against Dach being up, but that's a different story.

Also, I don't know if the door is closed on him yet for the WJC. Lots of time, and I hate to say it, because I don't want to jinx it for any player, but there's a lot of time from now until when rosters have to be finalized, and injuries do happen.

Um, what? OEL and Chychrun play the left side. Goligoski is a natural LD but plays both sides. Demers is a RD.

OEL and Demers is a pair. Chychrun and Goligoski is a pair.

As for Hjalmarsson, he may be a left shot but he plays exclusively on the Right side. Always.

Oesterle plays both sides but is a natural LD. Lyubushkin plays RD but has struggled mightily. I have no doubt they Soderstrom would be an upgrade on Lyubushkin at the very least. Possibly Oesterle too. Likely even.

We could easily run Hjalmarsson, Demers and Soderstrom on the right side with OEL, Chychrun and Goligoski on the left. Oesterle as 7th D and Lyubushkin in Tucson.

Given that Hjalmarsson has been injured all season, and Goligoski has been filling in for him on the right side (Last season OEL was with Demers and Chychrun with Hjalmarsson on his right), there’s obviously more than enough room for Soderstrom.

I don’t think you had a very good idea of the composition of the Coyotes D with or without Hjalmarsson before you made your comment

Either that, or you didn’t know that Soderstrom was RD.

 

[rt]

1) Chayka does not and should not give a shit about the WJC. Players and fans care about that. Not NHL GMs. None of them lose sleep if players that are already their property aren’t playing in the tournament. They probably prefer it.

2) Soderstrom was glad to stay in Coyotes camp as long as he did. He nearly made the team. Making the NHL is and should be his top priority. He was focused on making the NHL squad. Obviously that’s a thousand times more important than a junior tournament.

3) He obviously had a very real shot at making the team. He nearly did it and fell just short. If he had decided on Tucson (and they Coyotes have him this choice and he selected the SHL), he’d have been called up by now, and being obviously better than Ness and Lyubushkin, he’d be an NHL regular today.

The only mistake that was made was Soderstrom choosing SHL over AHL. If he hadn’t, he’d be an NHL player right now.

 

[greasysnapper]

Um, what? OEL and Chychrun play the left side. Goligoski is a natural LD but plays both sides. Demers is a RD.

OEL and Demers is a pair. Chychrun and Goligoski is a pair.

As for Hjalmarsson, he may be a left shot but he plays exclusively on the Right side. Always.

Oesterle plays both sides but is a natural LD. Lyubushkin plays RD but has struggled mightily. I have no doubt they Soderstrom would be an upgrade on Lyubushkin at the very least. Possibly Oesterle too. Likely even.

We could easily run Hjalmarsson, Demers and Soderstrom on the right side with OEL, Chychrun and Goligoski on the left. Oesterle as 7th D and Lyubushkin in Tucson.

Given that Hjalmarsson has been injured all season, and Goligoski has been filling in for him on the right side (Last season OEL was with Demers and Chychrun with Hjalmarsson on his right), there’s obviously more than enough room for Soderstrom.

I don’t think you had a very good idea of the composition of the Coyotes D with or without Hjalmarsson before you made your comment

Either that, or you didn’t know that Soderstrom was RD.

First, you might want to re-read the order of quotes and what I was responding to. Because you're making yourself look silly. I was commenting on the thread where one person was saying there was room for Soderstrom at the start of the season by saying what the Coyotes knew at the start of the season, there wasn't an opening. And there wasn't. Hjalmarsson got injured a few games into the season.

"Arizona didn't have a place open for Soderstrom."
"They absolutely did "


Second, I have a very good idea of the composition of their D. Second, I don't know what the hell you're arguing. You've literally listed 3 currently better players as a RD. Demers... Goligoski... Hjalmarsson. You're not displacing any of those players for an 18 year old of Soderstrom's current build and skill level; you're not.