Smith and Butcher, especially in Smith's early stages are going to be very redundant. While also not covering area of needs. Who plays PK?
Prospect Info: D Ty Smith
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JimEIV
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This exactly why the idea of trading Butcher is somewhat intriguing to me. It is seems like a perfect scenario to really make out like bandits.
I'd take it one step further and say, you can't have those 2 in the same lineup. Certainly not with Smith as a 19 year old rookie.
Zajacs Bowl Cut
Lets Go Baby
you are over thinking it
I'm not trading a 24 year old developing DMan who was as good as he was as a rookie because 36 year old Andy Greene is on the roster (For 1 more year)
I'm not overthinking it. I assume we hope to be good next year. I don't think you can have Butcher and Smith as 2/3's of your left D if you hope to be good.
Like I said, on the one hand it's redundant, on the other it leaves some gaping hole's.
AfroThunder396
[citation needed]
We went through all of last year basically not playing Mueller while waiting for Moore to leave. It's better to have too many D than not enough. Smith should also be AHL eligible next year so if there's no room let him go down there and play.
I don't think Santini is in this organization after March. I think they'd rather move Mueller/Butcher over to the right side than keep Santini.
I don't think Santini is in this organization after March. I think they'd rather move Mueller/Butcher over to the right side than keep Santini.
Missionhockey
Registered User
I think that we can have Smith and Butcher on the roster at the same time, but to me the bigger hole is second line center. If you can package Butcher for that I'd have to really think about it because you have Smith waiting in the wings.
BenedictGomez
Corsi is GROSSLY overrated
There's no way you can get Smith into the lineup now unless you just want to kiss the playoffs goodbye, a big Devils defense weakness is it's already too young.
Butcher 23 (92 games played)
Mueller 23 (91 games played)
Santini 23 (75 games played)
Severson 24 (289 games played)
Every game played, every one of the above makes mistakes because they're still learning. Granted, Severson has much more experience than the other guys so his lease is shorter, but he's still learning. The difference between playing offense and playing defense in the NHL is the difference between playing checkers and playing chess.
Toss 19 year old Smith in, and Severson becomes the 2nd "oldest" defenseman, with only 1 veteran on defense (Greene). Recipe for disaster.
Butcher 23 (92 games played)
Mueller 23 (91 games played)
Santini 23 (75 games played)
Severson 24 (289 games played)
Every game played, every one of the above makes mistakes because they're still learning. Granted, Severson has much more experience than the other guys so his lease is shorter, but he's still learning. The difference between playing offense and playing defense in the NHL is the difference between playing checkers and playing chess.
Toss 19 year old Smith in, and Severson becomes the 2nd "oldest" defenseman, with only 1 veteran on defense (Greene). Recipe for disaster.
Pretty sure Smith is not AHL eligible next year.
Moving Mueller to the right side? He is currently #1 LHD, who fills that hole? I don't see this as an option.
Moving Butcher to the right would probably mean we go Smith and Butcher on the 3rd pair. Doubting that happens, but I guess it's more possible then other options.
Zajacs Bowl Cut
Lets Go Baby
its way too early to talk about D pairing for NEXT year
but I will say again- they aren't going to trade Butcher just so they can keep 36 year old Andy Greene for 1 year.
but I will say again- they aren't going to trade Butcher just so they can keep 36 year old Andy Greene for 1 year.
If they want Smith in the lineup and don't think Butcher can handle the role that Greene currently does(and I for one am skeptical), then I can definitely see it as an option.
And you are leaving out the part where trading a young cost controlled d-man who is a proven PP player will bring back a nice return.
Buying out Greene get's you nothing.
Zajacs Bowl Cut
Lets Go Baby
MartyOwns
thank you shero
- Apr 1, 2007
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wait why will having butcher and smith in the lineup next year make us a worse team?
A little skewed in that Sev's will be 25 next year, Butch and Mueller both 24, Vat's would still be here.
I think it's more about role's. What role would we hope a 19 year old rookie could handle. And what role's do guys currently play, and if we shuffle a guy out, could other guys handle those roles.
Granted you do want some Vet's back there, and especially one to partner up with a rookie.
Which guy plays PK? Which guy handles 2nd pairing matchups?
Butch has been very good in his role, but it's really as a guy who dominates outmanned opponents, whether that means on the PP or just against less skilled opposition. Moving him up, and relying on him to handle those minutes is a gamble.
NJDevs26
Once upon a time...
- Mar 21, 2007
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They have a full season this year to find out if Butcher CAN be more than a ‘third pairing D who plays PP’ first, it’s not like he’s old enough where he can’t improve. Heck maybe Ty can handle enough ES and SH minutes next year or soon after where you don’t even need him on the PP1, and just keep Butcher in that role.
MartyOwns
thank you shero
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so because he’s done well in the role he’s been given, we should trade him in case he doesn’t do well in any future roles he’s given
Cheddabombs
Status Quo
- Mar 13, 2012
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I'm so confused. Butcher is good, Smith is good. Have both of them on the team next year, why try to complicate things. Besides, who knows what the rest of the defense will look like by this time next year.
Way too early to be concerned about this and contemplate trading one of our better defenseman for the sake of lineup diversity.
Way too early to be concerned about this and contemplate trading one of our better defenseman for the sake of lineup diversity.
RangerDoggo
The Devils have a culture of failure
- Apr 20, 2005
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Smith - Butcher is probably a realistic pairing for next year. I know the staff likes Butcher better on the left side, but he played RD a bit last year before the Vatanen trade. I assume we'd see Santini, Butcher and Smith rotating unless one of those guys can wrest away some top 4 minutes.
ETA: I think Smith is also playing RD now? So possible that it'd be Butcher - Smith at times.
ETA: I think Smith is also playing RD now? So possible that it'd be Butcher - Smith at times.
MartyOwns
thank you shero
- Apr 1, 2007
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what’s the earliest date we can begin renegotiating his new contract?
AfroThunder396
[citation needed]
Why does everyone assume that all players need to be top line/pairing players? Even *if* Butcher never grows and stays identical to what he is now - that's still a contributing NHL player who makes your team better.
Not everyone needs to be Scott Niedermayer. Good 3-4 defensemen have a lot of value. Look at the contracts guys like Alzner and Jack Johnson - inferior players - got. Defensemen are at a premium in this league, if you get one that doesn't suck you need to hold on to him.
Not everyone needs to be Scott Niedermayer. Good 3-4 defensemen have a lot of value. Look at the contracts guys like Alzner and Jack Johnson - inferior players - got. Defensemen are at a premium in this league, if you get one that doesn't suck you need to hold on to him.
Sheros expletives
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JimEIV
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I don't think it is way too early to be concerned about this at all...In fact, I think it went into the decison to send Smith back to junior.
It is almost impossible to put together 3 stable pairs with Mueller, Butcher and Smith in the lineup and I think it is partially why he didn't get that look this year.
Show me how you make Vatanen, Severson Butcher Right side work with Greene, Mueller and Smith Left Side? Or any combo for that matter.
You can't put Butcher and Smith together...Smith's intro to the NHL is going to be with Butcher? You go Smith-Butcher you are looking at a 12/13 minute a night 5v5 pair. Truth is we probably don't have a reasonable RHD for Smith....Vatanen? Maybe?
Smith - Vatanen
Greene - Severson
Mueller - Butcher
Maybe that works for a short period? But there doesn't seem to be any wiggle room for where to put Smith and giving him the best opportunity to succeed.
Another thing, you are looking at Severson forced to be a top 4 PKer with Smith in the lineup - I don't think that is ideal at all either.
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