VMBM
And it didn't even bring me down
Well, since you, er, promised... are you working on it? It would be, as David Frost might put it, 'most interesting' (I maybe could manage the top scorer myself but not top 3).
Czechoslovakia Elite league top 7 point Scoring 1965-66 - 1981-82
- Thread starter Dark Shadows
- Start date
Well, since you, er, promised... are you working on it? It would be, as David Frost might put it, 'most interesting' (I maybe could manage the top scorer myself but not top 3).
Dark Shadows
Registered User
Since someone told me that Pelletier and Houda have a book detailing those stats, so instead of manually imputing them all going page by page, I was just trying to locate that book. If I do not find it by the end of the week, ill start compiling the list.
Martinson
Registered User
Please what's the source? Which site did you get the screenshot from? Thank you very much for the reply...
seventieslord
Student Of The Game
Martinson
Registered User
seventieslord
Student Of The Game
VMBM
And it didn't even bring me down
In 1979 Martinec had 62 points (42+20); he should be #2 after Marian Stastny
http://hokej.snt.cz/wrld/cze1979.html
http://hokej.snt.cz/wrld/cze1979.html
As good a site as sihr is they are still lacking many stats especially pre 1990.
I got these top 10 scorers out of book 100 let Ceskeho Hokeje.
Top 10 goal scorers 1966/67
Vaclav Nedomansky-40 goals
Jan Klapac-37 goals
Josef Vimmer-33 goals
Jiri Dolana-28 goals
Jan Havel-28 goals
Stanislav Pryl-26 goals
Jaraoslav Holik-25 goals
Petr Bavor-23 goals
Miroslav Vlach-23 goals
Jiri Holik-21 goals
I got these top 10 scorers out of book 100 let Ceskeho Hokeje.
Top 10 goal scorers 1966/67
Vaclav Nedomansky-40 goals
Jan Klapac-37 goals
Josef Vimmer-33 goals
Jiri Dolana-28 goals
Jan Havel-28 goals
Stanislav Pryl-26 goals
Jaraoslav Holik-25 goals
Petr Bavor-23 goals
Miroslav Vlach-23 goals
Jiri Holik-21 goals
I would like to hear the explanation about often posted *fact* on HFboards that Peter Stastny was arguably the best player in CSSR and Europe.
B/c I always say he was one of the better but he was not considered as a best in CSSR.
Marian Stastny was arguably best player from this brotherhood trio and Anton was most talented.
B/c I always say he was one of the better but he was not considered as a best in CSSR.
Marian Stastny was arguably best player from this brotherhood trio and Anton was most talented.
TheDevilMadeMe
Registered User
Peter Stastny won the Golden Hockey Stick award for best player in Czechoslovakia in 1980: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Hockey_Stick
He defected to the NHL the very next year (1980-81).
And I've heard arguments that Marian was better in Czechoslovakia (Peter himself says so), but I think it's largely because he played for much longer over there. I can't, however, see how Anton could possibly be the most talented, when he was a much poorer skater than his brothers: http://quebecnordiques.blogspot.com/2009/04/anton-stastny.html
In that time was hockey God of CSSR Milan Nový and there were some others players, not many, who where considered better than Stastny.
Your argument with Golden Stick I dont get. Last year won Hart Trophy some H. Sedin. Is he now the best in NHL? After 30 years we will be discuss about him as best player of todays NHL or will we rather discuss Ovechkin and Crosby?
Your argument with Golden Stick I dont get. Last year won Hart Trophy some H. Sedin. Is he now the best in NHL? After 30 years we will be discuss about him as best player of todays NHL or will we rather discuss Ovechkin and Crosby?
VMBM
And it didn't even bring me down
Rewriting history a bit there, eh? I don't think there's any period in time, when Novy - despite his high scoring in the Czechoslovak league - was generally considered the best Czechoslovak player... and certainly not a "hockey God".
Dark Shadows
Registered User
No, but arguably, Peter Stastny had just hit his peak when he won the Golden Stick right before going to the NHL, where he quickly adapted and was considered among the best players in the league in the best league in the world.
Among all players, only Gretzky outscored Stastny in the 80's
VMBM
And it didn't even bring me down
DS, so are you going to fix the obvious omission from the 1978-79 season? 
There's no doubt about it at all. Martinec was the top goal scorer with 42 goals and # 2 point scorer in the league (between M. Stastny 74 and Novy 56) with 62 points.
The least you could do, is to put an asterisk/note in the original post - as with the case of Josef Vimmer in 1966-67. Or to add "according to sihr" to the thread title/OP.
For a long time, I couldn't for the life of me understand why Martinec got the GHS in 1979; he was AMONG the top scorers for CSSR in the 1979 WC but hardly his performance was so great that it would explain it. Then I finally bothered to check those Czechoslovak league stats on my own, and well, there it was...
There's no doubt about it at all. Martinec was the top goal scorer with 42 goals and # 2 point scorer in the league (between M. Stastny 74 and Novy 56) with 62 points.From http://www.passionhockey.com/Archives.html
The least you could do, is to put an asterisk/note in the original post - as with the case of Josef Vimmer in 1966-67. Or to add "according to sihr" to the thread title/OP.
For a long time, I couldn't for the life of me understand why Martinec got the GHS in 1979; he was AMONG the top scorers for CSSR in the 1979 WC but hardly his performance was so great that it would explain it. Then I finally bothered to check those Czechoslovak league stats on my own, and well, there it was...
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VMBM
And it didn't even bring me down
Okay, it's clear that I will get any sort of reaction/response only when pigs fly.
I just hope that in the future, when these sort of rare stats are being provided, it is made clear where they are from (equipped with possible disclaimers), and if and when something doesn't add up or there's an obvious error - like here - the OP is willing to take notice and possibly even take action and not just be like "there they are, that's it". After all, these are the sort of stats people will use to rank players they've usually not even seen.
Now I'm beginning to bore even myself. But behind all this *****ing is my hate for misinformation (that seems to get me into all kinds of frustrating/awkward situations all the time).
I just hope that in the future, when these sort of rare stats are being provided, it is made clear where they are from (equipped with possible disclaimers), and if and when something doesn't add up or there's an obvious error - like here - the OP is willing to take notice and possibly even take action and not just be like "there they are, that's it". After all, these are the sort of stats people will use to rank players they've usually not even seen.
Now I'm beginning to bore even myself. But behind all this *****ing is my hate for misinformation (that seems to get me into all kinds of frustrating/awkward situations all the time).
I have 2 hockey yearbooks from 1978 and 1979 that give complete hockey stats for all the teams and players in the elite league for seasons 1977/78 and 1978/79.The books are titled Hokej 78 and 79 written by Karel Gut and Vaclav Pacina.
If anyone would like these stats I would be more than willing to share.
If anyone would like these stats I would be more than willing to share.
Dark Shadows
Registered User
Calm down. Not everyone reads every single post quickly. Particularly since I barely visit anymore and usually just glance quickly while browsing.
VMBM
And it didn't even bring me down
I've noticed, but since you recently answered the post about Peter Stastny, I thought you were just being stubborn and ignoring this 'great injustice' completely.
I don't know if "according to sihr" means anything to any new posters - or if it's even good English - but okay, there it is now
P.S. SFRP's Hockey Archive (CSSR/Czech/world hockey) has Martinec playing for both Jihlava and Pardubice in the 1978-79 season (http://hokej.snt.cz/wrld/cze1979.html). Maybe there's the root to the problem (SIHR hasn't added the points scored for both teams together???).
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1978/79 season Vladimir Martinec played 24 games for Tesla Pardubice and had 21 goals and 12 assists and played 21 games for Dukla Jihlava and had 21 goals and 8 assists.according to Hokej 79.
VMBM
And it didn't even bring me down
seventieslord
Student Of The Game
Just these two seasons? Or more? I used to have this book but sold it off because I had no way to read, translate, or interpret it.
Thanks for this. It will help me further prove he's better than Tommy Phillips in my ATD series
VMBM
And it didn't even bring me down
Now that we have that thing about the 1978-79 season sorted out, there aren't big/strange disparities between the scoring and the Golden Hockey Stick - for me, anyway.
Well, the only one I can think of is Ivan Hlinka's absence in the GHS voting in 1975. He obviously had a big scoring year in the domestic league and yet was not even in the top 6 in the voting (according to http://www.passionhockey.com/Archives.html):
Was his international play (I think we've established that it counted) poor that season? Or was there some other faux pas?
The other thing is Vaclav Nedomansky's reasonably weak success in the voting; he was never even in the top 2 (1969-74, the source again being www.passionhockey.com), despite his consistent high scoring both in the Czechoslovak league and World Championships - not to mention his numerous all-star berths in the latter. Not that it's a shame to lose to Suchy, Pospisil, Martinec, Holecek, but anyway. I can understand that after the 1974 defection, he wasn't very popular among his countrymen, but looks like he was strangely underappreciated already during his years in Czechoslovakia.
BTW, I thought that Martinec's scoring success in 1978-79 had something to do with him playing for Jihlava that season, but having seen those Hokej 79 stats, it was not the case at all; he just seemed to hit another - and his last - peak then.
Well, the only one I can think of is Ivan Hlinka's absence in the GHS voting in 1975. He obviously had a big scoring year in the domestic league and yet was not even in the top 6 in the voting (according to http://www.passionhockey.com/Archives.html):
Was his international play (I think we've established that it counted) poor that season? Or was there some other faux pas?
The other thing is Vaclav Nedomansky's reasonably weak success in the voting; he was never even in the top 2 (1969-74, the source again being www.passionhockey.com), despite his consistent high scoring both in the Czechoslovak league and World Championships - not to mention his numerous all-star berths in the latter. Not that it's a shame to lose to Suchy, Pospisil, Martinec, Holecek, but anyway. I can understand that after the 1974 defection, he wasn't very popular among his countrymen, but looks like he was strangely underappreciated already during his years in Czechoslovakia.
BTW, I thought that Martinec's scoring success in 1978-79 had something to do with him playing for Jihlava that season, but having seen those Hokej 79 stats, it was not the case at all; he just seemed to hit another - and his last - peak then.
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These are the only 2 seasons I have with these yearbooks.I do have Sparta Praha stats for every season in the 70's and I have Kladno stats but they aren't just league stats.They are all there games including tournaments.Always willing to share.
I am looking for complete stats for the rest of the 70's if anyone has any.
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