WJC: Czech Republic 2020 Roster Talk

Czechboy

Easy schedules rule!
Apr 15, 2018
22,817
18,856
To believe that we need one "great person" at the top, a savior, someone highly competent with great ideas who will just rebuild the system from the scratch and bring back our glory days is naive and immature.

My theory is that if you get a good leader who hires good people.. things will change.

10 years later and I'm still reading about Lener and Kral. Time for a change up top.

How do the owners affect the development of 12 to 15 year olds?
 

Czechboy

Easy schedules rule!
Apr 15, 2018
22,817
18,856
Lubos Brabec on Facebook... not once does he mention the owners of Extraliga teams:

ČESKÝ HOKEJ POD TÍHOU NEVÍRY
Hráčům, kteří naposledy přivezli z mistrovství světa dvacítek medaili, se začínají objevovat první šedivé vlasy a většinou se blíží konci kariéry. Tenkrát v roce 2005 dokázali dvakrát porazit USA, jednou Finy a v semifinále padli po boji 1:3 s Kanadou, která díky výluce NHL byla asi nejsilnější v historii – v sestavě s Crosbym, Bergeronem, Seabrookem, Phaneufem, Getzlafem, Perrym, Carterem…
Patnáct hluchých let není statistická anomálie nebo shoda nepříznivých okolností. Je to smutný trend.
Teď nemá cenu spekulovat, do jaké míry výkon dvacítky v Ostravě ovlivnily Laukovo a později Jeníkovo zranění, nebo jestli nominace neměla vypadat trochu jinak. Vlastně ani není třeba řešit, zda Varaďa byl ideálním trenérem pro tenhle tým. To jsou v celkovém obrazu v podstatě detaily.
Horší je, že nám dorostla další generace mladých hokejistů, kteří s reprezentací na světové úrovni neuspěli – a to se pochopitelně s časovým odstupem projevuje i na výsledcích národního týmu dospělých. Ten ostatně čeká na medaili od roku 2012, nejdéle v historii.
Každá taková série nemá jenom okamžité projevy, jako jsou kritika výkonů aktuálního týmu nebo frustrace fanoušků po čerstvě skončeném turnaji. I tohle je skoro to nejmenší.
Mnohem zásadnější je, že celé prostředí je stále více prožírané NEVÍROU. Neúspěch se stal normou a postupně si na něj zvykli všichni. Hráči, trenéři, funkcionáři, fanoušci i novináři. Po čase už vlastně nikdo nic pozitivního nečeká, nové neúspěchy se hodnotí s nádechem pobaveného cynismu nebo se bagatelizují tím, že jsou logické, předvídatelné, nevyhnutelné. A každý další budí menší emoce, menší rozhořčení. Najednou se oslavuje i samotný postup do čtvrtfinále, vyzdvihují se tzv. čestné porážky - a nikomu to nepřijde divné.
Bohužel čím déle se takhle kupí špatné zážitky, tím zbrklejší a zoufalejší bývá snaha o nápravu, které navíc nikdo uvnitř systému nevěří. Mentalita neúspěchu se zacyklí a je zatraceně těžké hledat cestu ven. Český hokej se v tomhle stává věrnou kopií fotbalové Sparty, ukázkové studie výše popsaného.
Symbolem téhle nevíry je svazový předseda Tomáš Král. Muž, který asi upřímně touží vyvést hokej z krize, ale naprosto netuší, jak na to. Postrádá jakoukoli vizi. A tak koncepce střídá koncepci, novým experimentem se překrývá ten minulý, snad každý rok se mění systém mládežnických soutěží. Jednou se rozšiřují, aby mladí měli kde hrát, pak se znovu zužují, protože – jak se převratně zjistilo v roce 2019! – prospěšnější je větší konkurence a tlak na kvalitu. Všechno se děje nahodile, bez důkladných analýz. Pro vyvolání dojmu, že se "něco dělá".
Nebo jiný příklad: když loni dvacítka neuspěla ani s třemi hráči draftovanými do NHL v prvním kole (výsledkově to bylo dokonce horší než letos), Král v rozhovoru pro svazový web uvedl, že je pro to, aby ji vedl trenér na plný úvazek, ne kouč extraligového týmu. A co se stalo? Vůbec nic. Předseda svazu, který neumí prosadit svou představu, těžko může být respektovaným lídrem.
V posledních letech Král demonstroval úspěšnost svého působení v čele českého hokeje statistikami, že mladíci už nedostávají od Švédů debakly jako o deset let dřív, radoval se z každého bronzu na Turnajích čtyř. Trochu připomínal Donutila z Pelíšků, jak se s umělohmotnou skleničkou v ruce dojímá nad tím, že jsme zase o kousek před nimi. V hokeji rozhodně nejsme. Bohužel jsme ani nesrovnali krok – ostatně čerstvý čtvrtfinálový zápas se Švédskem toho byl výmluvným důkazem. Nejde ani tak o výsledek, ale hlavně o to, co se dělo na ledě, každou minutu, každé střídání.
Český hokej aktuálně může nabídnout jenom bojovnost a odhodlání. Díky za ně, bez ironie, jenže už dávno nestačí. Svět je jinde. A my jsme se ocitli kdesi v roli Němců 80. a 90. let. Zarputilostí občas dokážeme zaskočit favorita, v den, kdy do sebe zapadne úplně všechno, ale víc se od nás nečeká. Nemáme respekt. Kdyby se v dospělém hokeji konal turnaj „best-on-best“, velmi jasně bychom to poznali i tam.
Už navíc dlouho nejsme pro nikoho inspirativní, o české hráče je v zahraničí stále menší zájem (nejen v NHL) a o trenéry téměř nulový.
A naděje se nehledá snadno. Ano, za poslední roky padlo hodně odhodlaných slov, ale tím to většinou končí. Rétorickými exhibicemi a semináři „nás kluků, co spolu mluvíme“ o hokejové kultuře se moc věcí dopředu nepohne. Natož v čele s mesiáši sedícími na čtyřech židlích.
Nebo si můžeme dokola malovat grafy se stoupajícími křivkami, kolik dětí přišlo na nábory, kolik se mezi ně rozdalo hokejek a bruslí nebo kolik bylo zřízeno akademií. Jistě jsou to důležité věci. Ale pokud ty děti nebudou mít k ruce trenéry s know-how sportovní výchovy pro 21. století, budeme vlastně jenom produkovat víc průměrných hráčů. A pak se opakovaně divit, proč v konfrontaci s nejlepšími faulují, i když "v kabině jsme jim jasně řekli, že musí hrát čistě." Teď, za rok, za pět let, za deset...
Protože dokud svaz nepovedou lidé s jasnou a realistickou představou, kudy český hokej nasměrovat kupředu, ten se dál bude hroutit pod tíhou vlastní nevíry.
Czech hockey under the weight of unbelief
The players who last brought the s medal from the world championship are starting to discover the first gray hair and usually close to the end of the career. Back in 2005, they managed to beat the usa twice, once finns and in semifinals fell after the fight 1:3 With Canada, which thanks to the NHL NHL was probably the strongest in history - in the lineup with Crosby, Bergeronem, seabrookem, phaneufem, getzlafem, Perry, Carter...

Fifteen years of age is not a statistical anomaly or a match of adverse circumstances. It's a sad trend.

Now it is not worth speculating to what extent the performance of the twenties in ostrava affected the laukovo and later the injury, or if the nomination should not have looked a little different. In fact, there is no need to solve whether varaďa was the ideal coach for this team. These are basically details in the overall painting.

It is worse that we have been missed by the next generation of young players who failed with representation at the world level - and this is, of course, reflected in the results of the national team of adults. He is waiting for the medal since 2012, longest in history.

Every such series does not have only immediate speeches, such as criticism of the performances of the current team or frustration of fans after a freshly tournament tournament. Even this is almost the smallest.

Much more important is that the whole environment is increasingly prožírané infidelity. Failure has become the norm and everyone has become accustomed to it. Players, coaches, officials, fans and journalists. After time, no one is expecting anything positive anymore, new failures are evaluated with a hint of cynical cynicism or being surprised by being logical, predictable, inevitable. And everyone else wakes up smaller emotions, less indignation. All of a sudden, the procedure for the quarterfinals is celebrated, the so-called. Honorable defeats - and no one feels weird.

Unfortunately, the longer the bad experiences get down like this, the more difficult and more difficult is the effort for axle, which no one believes inside the system. Failure mentality is getting better and it's damn hard to find a way out. Czech hockey is becoming a true copy of football Sparta, a sample study described above.

The symbol of this unbelief is union chairman tomáš král. A man who probably wants to take hockey out of the crisis, but he has no idea how to do it. He lacks any vision. And so the concept alternating the concept, the new experiment overlaps the last one, perhaps every year the system of youth competitions changes. One day they are expanding so that the young ones have a place to play, then they will be again narrow because - as the revolutionised found out in 2019! More competitive and quality pressure is more beneficial. Everything is happening randomly, without any analysis. To elicit the impression that "something is done".

Or another example: when last year did not succeed even with three players in NHL In the first round (results it was even worse than this year), the king said in an interview for the union website that he is for the full time coach to lead her, not Coach of the Czech team. And what happened? Nothing at all. The Chairman of the union, who can't enforce his idea, can hardly be a leader of the union.

In recent years, the king has demonstrated the success of his work in the head of Czech Hockey Statistics, that young men no longer receive from Swedes, as ten years earlier, he rejoiced from every bronze in four tournaments. She made a little reminder of pelíšků, how she touched with a glass glass in her hand that we are a little before them. We are definitely not in hockey. Unfortunately, we did not take a step - after all, the fresh quaterfinal match with Sweden was the most compelling proof. It's not even about the result, but mainly about what was happening on the ice, every minute, every rotation.

Czech hockey can only offer fighting and determination. Thanks for them, without irony, but it's not enough anymore. The world is elsewhere. And we found ourselves somewhere in the role of Germans 80. And 90. Years. Sometimes we can hit a favorite, on the day when everything fits into each other, but more is not expected from us. We have no respect. If the "Best-on-best" tournament was held in adult hockey, we would be very clear there.

We haven't been inspiring for anyone for a long time, there is still a little interest in Czech players (not only in NHL) and about coaches almost zero.

And hope is not easy. Yes, there have been many words in the past years, but that usually ends. Puny exhibitions and the seminar "us boys talking" about hockey culture doesn't move much forward. Let alone lead with a four-seat sitting on four chairs.

Or we can paint the charts with the curve curves, how many children came to the recruiting, how many of them were distributed and skates or how much was established by the academy. Surely it's important things. But if the kids don't have coaches with know-How Sports Education for the 21. th century, we will actually only produce more average players. And then wonder why in confrontation with the best faulují, although " in the cabin we clearly told them that they have to play purely." now, in a year, in five years, for ten...

Because as long as the union does not lead people with a clear and realistic idea to direct czech hockey forward, it will continue to collapse under the weight of its own unbelief.
 
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Czechboy

Easy schedules rule!
Apr 15, 2018
22,817
18,856
I am happy as I've read several blogs and posts complaining about the state of it. Bukac pointed out that our U18 pool is also a pool of death... something like US, Russia, Finland and Germany (again). I might be off by one team.

What I worry about... all is forgotten in a month. Same guys in charge. Or we do well at World's and all is forgotten... some good players available this year if standings hold...
 

Rexor

Registered User
Oct 24, 2006
1,455
309
Brno
My theory is that if you get a good leader who hires good people.. things will change.

10 years later and I'm still reading about Lener and Kral. Time for a change up top.

How do the owners affect the development of 12 to 15 year olds?


Yes but it's clubs that hire youth coaches, not hockey association. Hockey associaton only hires regional coaches who are supposed to supervise and mentor coaches in the clubs but how much influence do they really have? Then there's about 80 (?) other coaches paid by the association who are working in their own club on a daily-basis but I have no idea how independent they really are.

One crucial difference between Czech hockey on one side and Swedish and Finnish hockey on the other side is that kids in Nordic countries are developing in a much more liberal environment, are not afraid to make mistakes, and are not nearly as much confined in that "Defense first, win at every cost" mentality that prevails in Czech youth hockey. And it's up to the clubs (and parents...) to change this, it's clubs who is setting the tone here and not hockey association.

Another huge problem and another huge difference compared to Nordic countries is that in the absolute majority of Extraliga teams, players in the über-important age between 17-20 are given almost zero opportunity. And this is completely on their clubs. What can hockey association do about this, other than implementing some sort of quotas like they did a few years ago, which are impossible to enforce?
 

Rexor

Registered User
Oct 24, 2006
1,455
309
Brno
Well what kind of great ideas Lener really brought up? He came up with 10 commandments. When somebody asked him for results of his work he only showed some percentage stats of winning, which obviously he cant show anymore, because they are still low. He never said smth clear what he wanted to do and how he wants to do it. And he also never complained about club owners, if I am clear.

I am not sure how you you come up with conclusion that its mostly owners fault. Obviously people complain about training methodology and quality of players. The analysis why they are worse than top 5 should be here 4 years ago. And its up to association to make such analysis. Otherwise its just crystal ball reading. Lener and Kral didnt do any such a thing. In fact, in their own 2019 hockey summit, they said, everything is OK. They should be fired immediately only for such a pure lie.

Oh he had a ton of great ideas. The association also published plenty of learning materials for coaches, has been organizing seminars about how things are done in Sweden etc. But as Karl Marx said, it's not about explaining the world, it's about changing it. Yet when the clubs aren't on the same page as the association, what can be done? I guess it's much easier to bring about a complete overhaul of development programs in Nordic countries because there's a lot more social capital in these countries, a lot more trust between people and willingness to work together than in the Czech Republic. In the Czech Republic, everyone is an expert on explaining why this and that is never going to work, why this and that person is a complete moron who has no right to lecture us on anything etc. There's an incredible amount of inertia in this society. Which can be an asset sometimes but in other times, not so much.

If the Czech hockey association is so inept and incompetent, how is it possible that there's still a club like Kometa Brno that is actually able to develop a fair amount of players with a clear potential to make it in the NHL? Zbořil, Hájek, Nečas, Král, Dostál and now Svozil, while Zábranský Jr. and Plášek were pretty decent at the WJC this year... or, in other words, why cannot another three or four big and wealthy Czech clubs be producing prospects at least at this rate? Where is Sparta, Plzeň or Třinec? Only Liberec is doing its part.
 

RBbandit

Registered User
Jan 4, 2020
55
56
Yesterday was some panel discussion on Czech TV and to be honest, only reasonable opinion came from Petr Hubáček who just compared how kids play in Finland and CZ based on his experience as a father of 9 years old kid and a player who spent 5 years in Finland. Just let them play and be kids, in the beginning. Let them make mistakes, don't expect results and wins from 9, 10, 12 years old kids.
 
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Jablkon

Registered User
May 23, 2014
1,693
131
Czech Republic
Lubos Brabec on Facebook... not once does he mention the owners of Extraliga teams:

ČESKÝ HOKEJ POD TÍHOU NEVÍRY
Hráčům, kteří naposledy přivezli z mistrovství světa dvacítek medaili, se začínají objevovat první šedivé vlasy a většinou se blíží konci kariéry. Tenkrát v roce 2005 dokázali dvakrát porazit USA, jednou Finy a v semifinále padli po boji 1:3 s Kanadou, která díky výluce NHL byla asi nejsilnější v historii – v sestavě s Crosbym, Bergeronem, Seabrookem, Phaneufem, Getzlafem, Perrym, Carterem…
Patnáct hluchých let není statistická anomálie nebo shoda nepříznivých okolností. Je to smutný trend.
Teď nemá cenu spekulovat, do jaké míry výkon dvacítky v Ostravě ovlivnily Laukovo a později Jeníkovo zranění, nebo jestli nominace neměla vypadat trochu jinak. Vlastně ani není třeba řešit, zda Varaďa byl ideálním trenérem pro tenhle tým. To jsou v celkovém obrazu v podstatě detaily.
Horší je, že nám dorostla další generace mladých hokejistů, kteří s reprezentací na světové úrovni neuspěli – a to se pochopitelně s časovým odstupem projevuje i na výsledcích národního týmu dospělých. Ten ostatně čeká na medaili od roku 2012, nejdéle v historii.
Každá taková série nemá jenom okamžité projevy, jako jsou kritika výkonů aktuálního týmu nebo frustrace fanoušků po čerstvě skončeném turnaji. I tohle je skoro to nejmenší.
Mnohem zásadnější je, že celé prostředí je stále více prožírané NEVÍROU. Neúspěch se stal normou a postupně si na něj zvykli všichni. Hráči, trenéři, funkcionáři, fanoušci i novináři. Po čase už vlastně nikdo nic pozitivního nečeká, nové neúspěchy se hodnotí s nádechem pobaveného cynismu nebo se bagatelizují tím, že jsou logické, předvídatelné, nevyhnutelné. A každý další budí menší emoce, menší rozhořčení. Najednou se oslavuje i samotný postup do čtvrtfinále, vyzdvihují se tzv. čestné porážky - a nikomu to nepřijde divné.
Bohužel čím déle se takhle kupí špatné zážitky, tím zbrklejší a zoufalejší bývá snaha o nápravu, které navíc nikdo uvnitř systému nevěří. Mentalita neúspěchu se zacyklí a je zatraceně těžké hledat cestu ven. Český hokej se v tomhle stává věrnou kopií fotbalové Sparty, ukázkové studie výše popsaného.
Symbolem téhle nevíry je svazový předseda Tomáš Král. Muž, který asi upřímně touží vyvést hokej z krize, ale naprosto netuší, jak na to. Postrádá jakoukoli vizi. A tak koncepce střídá koncepci, novým experimentem se překrývá ten minulý, snad každý rok se mění systém mládežnických soutěží. Jednou se rozšiřují, aby mladí měli kde hrát, pak se znovu zužují, protože – jak se převratně zjistilo v roce 2019! – prospěšnější je větší konkurence a tlak na kvalitu. Všechno se děje nahodile, bez důkladných analýz. Pro vyvolání dojmu, že se "něco dělá".
Nebo jiný příklad: když loni dvacítka neuspěla ani s třemi hráči draftovanými do NHL v prvním kole (výsledkově to bylo dokonce horší než letos), Král v rozhovoru pro svazový web uvedl, že je pro to, aby ji vedl trenér na plný úvazek, ne kouč extraligového týmu. A co se stalo? Vůbec nic. Předseda svazu, který neumí prosadit svou představu, těžko může být respektovaným lídrem.
V posledních letech Král demonstroval úspěšnost svého působení v čele českého hokeje statistikami, že mladíci už nedostávají od Švédů debakly jako o deset let dřív, radoval se z každého bronzu na Turnajích čtyř. Trochu připomínal Donutila z Pelíšků, jak se s umělohmotnou skleničkou v ruce dojímá nad tím, že jsme zase o kousek před nimi. V hokeji rozhodně nejsme. Bohužel jsme ani nesrovnali krok – ostatně čerstvý čtvrtfinálový zápas se Švédskem toho byl výmluvným důkazem. Nejde ani tak o výsledek, ale hlavně o to, co se dělo na ledě, každou minutu, každé střídání.
Český hokej aktuálně může nabídnout jenom bojovnost a odhodlání. Díky za ně, bez ironie, jenže už dávno nestačí. Svět je jinde. A my jsme se ocitli kdesi v roli Němců 80. a 90. let. Zarputilostí občas dokážeme zaskočit favorita, v den, kdy do sebe zapadne úplně všechno, ale víc se od nás nečeká. Nemáme respekt. Kdyby se v dospělém hokeji konal turnaj „best-on-best“, velmi jasně bychom to poznali i tam.
Už navíc dlouho nejsme pro nikoho inspirativní, o české hráče je v zahraničí stále menší zájem (nejen v NHL) a o trenéry téměř nulový.
A naděje se nehledá snadno. Ano, za poslední roky padlo hodně odhodlaných slov, ale tím to většinou končí. Rétorickými exhibicemi a semináři „nás kluků, co spolu mluvíme“ o hokejové kultuře se moc věcí dopředu nepohne. Natož v čele s mesiáši sedícími na čtyřech židlích.
Nebo si můžeme dokola malovat grafy se stoupajícími křivkami, kolik dětí přišlo na nábory, kolik se mezi ně rozdalo hokejek a bruslí nebo kolik bylo zřízeno akademií. Jistě jsou to důležité věci. Ale pokud ty děti nebudou mít k ruce trenéry s know-how sportovní výchovy pro 21. století, budeme vlastně jenom produkovat víc průměrných hráčů. A pak se opakovaně divit, proč v konfrontaci s nejlepšími faulují, i když "v kabině jsme jim jasně řekli, že musí hrát čistě." Teď, za rok, za pět let, za deset...
Protože dokud svaz nepovedou lidé s jasnou a realistickou představou, kudy český hokej nasměrovat kupředu, ten se dál bude hroutit pod tíhou vlastní nevíry.
Czech hockey under the weight of unbelief
The players who last brought the s medal from the world championship are starting to discover the first gray hair and usually close to the end of the career. Back in 2005, they managed to beat the usa twice, once finns and in semifinals fell after the fight 1:3 With Canada, which thanks to the NHL NHL was probably the strongest in history - in the lineup with Crosby, Bergeronem, seabrookem, phaneufem, getzlafem, Perry, Carter...

Fifteen years of age is not a statistical anomaly or a match of adverse circumstances. It's a sad trend.

Now it is not worth speculating to what extent the performance of the twenties in ostrava affected the laukovo and later the injury, or if the nomination should not have looked a little different. In fact, there is no need to solve whether varaďa was the ideal coach for this team. These are basically details in the overall painting.

It is worse that we have been missed by the next generation of young players who failed with representation at the world level - and this is, of course, reflected in the results of the national team of adults. He is waiting for the medal since 2012, longest in history.

Every such series does not have only immediate speeches, such as criticism of the performances of the current team or frustration of fans after a freshly tournament tournament. Even this is almost the smallest.

Much more important is that the whole environment is increasingly prožírané infidelity. Failure has become the norm and everyone has become accustomed to it. Players, coaches, officials, fans and journalists. After time, no one is expecting anything positive anymore, new failures are evaluated with a hint of cynical cynicism or being surprised by being logical, predictable, inevitable. And everyone else wakes up smaller emotions, less indignation. All of a sudden, the procedure for the quarterfinals is celebrated, the so-called. Honorable defeats - and no one feels weird.

Unfortunately, the longer the bad experiences get down like this, the more difficult and more difficult is the effort for axle, which no one believes inside the system. Failure mentality is getting better and it's damn hard to find a way out. Czech hockey is becoming a true copy of football Sparta, a sample study described above.

The symbol of this unbelief is union chairman tomáš král. A man who probably wants to take hockey out of the crisis, but he has no idea how to do it. He lacks any vision. And so the concept alternating the concept, the new experiment overlaps the last one, perhaps every year the system of youth competitions changes. One day they are expanding so that the young ones have a place to play, then they will be again narrow because - as the revolutionised found out in 2019! More competitive and quality pressure is more beneficial. Everything is happening randomly, without any analysis. To elicit the impression that "something is done".

Or another example: when last year did not succeed even with three players in NHL In the first round (results it was even worse than this year), the king said in an interview for the union website that he is for the full time coach to lead her, not Coach of the Czech team. And what happened? Nothing at all. The Chairman of the union, who can't enforce his idea, can hardly be a leader of the union.

In recent years, the king has demonstrated the success of his work in the head of Czech Hockey Statistics, that young men no longer receive from Swedes, as ten years earlier, he rejoiced from every bronze in four tournaments. She made a little reminder of pelíšků, how she touched with a glass glass in her hand that we are a little before them. We are definitely not in hockey. Unfortunately, we did not take a step - after all, the fresh quaterfinal match with Sweden was the most compelling proof. It's not even about the result, but mainly about what was happening on the ice, every minute, every rotation.

Czech hockey can only offer fighting and determination. Thanks for them, without irony, but it's not enough anymore. The world is elsewhere. And we found ourselves somewhere in the role of Germans 80. And 90. Years. Sometimes we can hit a favorite, on the day when everything fits into each other, but more is not expected from us. We have no respect. If the "Best-on-best" tournament was held in adult hockey, we would be very clear there.

We haven't been inspiring for anyone for a long time, there is still a little interest in Czech players (not only in NHL) and about coaches almost zero.

And hope is not easy. Yes, there have been many words in the past years, but that usually ends. Puny exhibitions and the seminar "us boys talking" about hockey culture doesn't move much forward. Let alone lead with a four-seat sitting on four chairs.

Or we can paint the charts with the curve curves, how many children came to the recruiting, how many of them were distributed and skates or how much was established by the academy. Surely it's important things. But if the kids don't have coaches with know-How Sports Education for the 21. th century, we will actually only produce more average players. And then wonder why in confrontation with the best faulují, although " in the cabin we clearly told them that they have to play purely." now, in a year, in five years, for ten...

Because as long as the union does not lead people with a clear and realistic idea to direct czech hockey forward, it will continue to collapse under the weight of its own unbelief.
Thats a great article. The reminiscence to Sparta Prague is not far from reality imo. This club is also led by guy who thinks he understand to it,but he doesnt. In a darkest vision I can imagine he relocates Sparta Prague to other district.But here I have to say I quite liked Kretinsky so I might become to understand why people like Lener:).
Oh he had a ton of great ideas. The association also published plenty of learning materials for coaches, has been organizing seminars about how things are done in Sweden etc. But as Karl Marx said, it's not about explaining the world, it's about changing it. Yet when the clubs aren't on the same page as the association, what can be done? I guess it's much easier to bring about a complete overhaul of development programs in Nordic countries because there's a lot more social capital in these countries, a lot more trust between people and willingness to work together than in the Czech Republic. In the Czech Republic, everyone is an expert on explaining why this and that is never going to work, why this and that person is a complete moron who has no right to lecture us on anything etc. There's an incredible amount of inertia in this society. Which can be an asset sometimes but in other times, not so much.

If the Czech hockey association is so inept and incompetent, how is it possible that there's still a club like Kometa Brno that is actually able to develop a fair amount of players with a clear potential to make it in the NHL? Zbořil, Hájek, Nečas, Král, Dostál and now Svozil, while Zábranský Jr. and Plášek were pretty decent at the WJC this year... or, in other words, why cannot another three or four big and wealthy Czech clubs be producing prospects at least at this rate? Where is Sparta, Plzeň or Třinec? Only Liberec is doing its part.
I was never sure if that ideas were that great. But, yep I agree with what you saying that some clubs sre not doing their job. I am not saying there are no problems in clubs. I just think that you have to start from the top and then get down to clubs. Second thing is that right now, you dont know what nordic state this system is copying. And I am not sure if its good just to copy others or how to copy them. Nevertheless this was imo here in 60,70s and if smbd wanted to do such thing then he could study old articles where these people obviously chose how czech players should look like and more importantly why. But you can not make them look like finns, swedes or canadians in 4 years intervals. Thats unprofessional foolishness, imo. That leads me to opinion, that I never thought its that easy as these Leners, Krals, or even maybe Pesan imagine it. But I grew up on 80s Hokej (Or mysbe Gol was the name, I dont know) articles from my dead, and these people really considered hockey more as a science.

You made important point about liberal enviroment. But here, this not in that commandments, if I am not mistaken. This is what Bukac stressed a lot. And for this, imo, you have to have super quality coaches and enviroment. And I am not sure whether they are willing to accept such a thing as Bukac and Kral relation obviously was really bad till he died. In a nutshell, I am missing statements from them and I really think, its too late to continue with these people. More like I see club problem as second one, but sure they vote them.
 

lamini

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More like I see club problem as second one, but sure they vote them.

That's where I don't agree. There is no first and second. As long as clubs are happy with the way hockey works, nothing will change. Look at reduction of teams in junior league...when they cut teams, they cut those without influence, not the worst teams. Kral can do what he's doing as long as influential clubs are behind him and they are the only one who can change it (well, MŠMT can probably do it too, but I prefere politicans as far away from hockey as possible)
 

Swipes

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Sorry I will probably never understand to that love for Lener. He got his chance, they started to heavily criticise him 4 years later. Not only Bukac, but Hadamczik, notwithsanding Zacha etc. He never reacted, never. No article, no explanation, nothing.

Yeah I'm with you on this one. Lener had his shot and it doesn't look like an awful lot has changed. Some improvements yes, but nothing substantial. We still lose to Canada/USA/Sweden by 5+ goals. It was like that before Lener arrived.

What I can't understand is why we don't get a public breakdown of what Leners work has done after 10 years? If there have been improvements, let's hear about them. If some stuff has gone badly, let's hear that too. Honesty is key here. If it's gonna take a while, then that's fine, as long as we continue to make progress.

What I would like to see is an evaluation report or meeting or whatever every year to assess the level of progress we have made in each key area of weakness. A systematic review. That's what's really missing. And I'm afraid that the reason that it's missing is probably because the progress has not been good and they are scared to admit it.

The very fact that Pesan didn't want to speak to reporters after the WJC speaks volumes. As fans, we deserve to know what's being done and whether progress is being made or not. It's not a tough ask.
 
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Czechboy

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I think, for me, I'm stuck at player develoment. Eg. last year's team lost but we already have 3 guys in the NHL - Chytil (who didn't play), Necas and Zadina. Kaut might make it one day too. Dostal should as well in a few years. So we lost but we created 5 NHL players in that group. That's good.

This years group had similar quarter final exit but no one will be in the NHL next October. Dostal is still here and he might make it. Jenik and Lauko are later picks that might make it but nothing is guaranteed (especially after their awful injuries).

Sweden has 2 medals in 6 years but has produced about 10 NHL players every birth year. So, they're losing at this 10 day tournamnet but they're winning in development.

Same with the German's, they almost got relegated but, most likely have 5 future NHL players on this squad.

My point? I'd feel better about losing if we were consistently producing 3 Top 40 picks every season.

It's not about the Junior's but about development for me.

As another example, the Slovak's have more medals than us in the last 15 years - we're developing at a better rate than they are.

Hope Pitlyk and Mysak get taken in the first round!
 

Czechboy

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My other one.lol

I cover the Oiler's and there problems are identical as ours. Always weak in certain positions. Keep the same people in charge. Keep hiring former Oiler's.

I said a few years ago that former Oiler's are not in demand anywhere in the NHL. You can't find any that are head coaches or GM's of any other NHL clubs. They only get hired by the Oiler's. Even MacT who is our best former Oiler got fired in the KHL after a few months. It was nice to see Coffey and MacT win the Spengler but that is about the highest level former Oiler players have achieved in management/coaching.

Now look at our Czechs. Kral and Lener still on top.
Reichel, Spacek, Nedved, Varada and Elias are all in very prominent roles. They all look like they could still play in the Extraliga!

I'm not against any of them. In fact, huge fan of all of them. But can you tell me what other federation would hire them? Our next generation of coaches will be Vrbata, Jagr and Plekanec. It'll be the Nagano/Kladno club running the show. We need professionals in these areas that understand development.
 
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kudla

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I think, for me, I'm stuck at player develoment. Eg. last year's team lost but we already have 3 guys in the NHL - Chytil (who didn't play), Necas and Zadina. Kaut might make it one day too. Dostal should as well in a few years. So we lost but we created 5 NHL players in that group. That's good.

This years group had similar quarter final exit but no one will be in the NHL next October. Dostal is still here and he might make it. Jenik and Lauko are later picks that might make it but nothing is guaranteed (especially after their awful injuries).

Sweden has 2 medals in 6 years but has produced about 10 NHL players every birth year. So, they're losing at this 10 day tournamnet but they're winning in development.

Same with the German's, they almost got relegated but, most likely have 5 future NHL players on this squad.

My point? I'd feel better about losing if we were consistently producing 3 Top 40 picks every season.

It's not about the Junior's but about development for me.

As another example, the Slovak's have more medals than us in the last 15 years - we're developing at a better rate than they are.

Hope Pitlyk and Mysak get taken in the first round!
I liked Mysak and I actually think he might have a good chance to be taken somewhere between 20-30 after all. However, Pytlik didn't show much and based on what i've seen, I don't see him being drafted anywhere near the first round
 

Czechboy

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I liked Mysak and I actually think he might have a good chance to be taken somewhere between 20-30 after all. However, Pytlik didn't show much and based on what i've seen, I don't see him being drafted anywhere near the first round
Some have him in first round, some don't. I can dream!

He did double Mysak in minutes in one game. Mysak was in the 12 minute range while Pitlyk was in the 16 to 18 range on average.

I'd be ecstatic is all our draft elibible guys get taken plus Novak/Bednar. We'll see. 10 a year would be a good start.
 

RBbandit

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Král and Lener are not going anywhere anytime soon :-( These positions are way too influential and well paid. Who would in the right mind give a job to Lener? It really seems like Czech football/soccer and hockey are twins. There is no will to change anything, unfortunately. To be fair Varada, Elias or Reichel are way better than Prerost for example :)
 

Swipes

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I think, for me, I'm stuck at player develoment. Eg. last year's team lost but we already have 3 guys in the NHL - Chytil (who didn't play), Necas and Zadina. Kaut might make it one day too. Dostal should as well in a few years. So we lost but we created 5 NHL players in that group. That's good.

This years group had similar quarter final exit but no one will be in the NHL next October. Dostal is still here and he might make it. Jenik and Lauko are later picks that might make it but nothing is guaranteed (especially after their awful injuries).

Sweden has 2 medals in 6 years but has produced about 10 NHL players every birth year. So, they're losing at this 10 day tournamnet but they're winning in development.

Same with the German's, they almost got relegated but, most likely have 5 future NHL players on this squad.

My point? I'd feel better about losing if we were consistently producing 3 Top 40 picks every season.

It's not about the Junior's but about development for me.

As another example, the Slovak's have more medals than us in the last 15 years - we're developing at a better rate than they are.

Hope Pitlyk and Mysak get taken in the first round!

Yeah I can't see Pytlik being drafted in the first round. He didn't stand out to me at the WJC really. Which is a shame, as he was a very promising prospect a few years back. I remember reading articles about him.

I'm with you on player development. If they can maintain a steady stream of players going to the NHL every year then I'd be happy, even if we didn't bring back medals from the WJC. A competitive team at the Olympics/World Cup is what I care about most.
 

Czechboy

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Král and Lener are not going anywhere anytime soon :-( These positions are way too influential and well paid. Who would in the right mind give a job to Lener? It really seems like Czech football/soccer and hockey are twins. There is no will to change anything, unfortunately. To be fair Varada, Elias or Reichel are way better than Prerost for example :)
I'd actually love to meet Prerost! He's still coaching junior. He was the Junior A challenge and I've seen him as an assistant at U18. He's seen everything! The teams he had at the Juniors were also very weak when you look back at the rosters. His biggest threats were guys like Faksa and Zacha who are now bottom 6 Centres that get 30 points a season (I'm not knocking this, that is great!). I don't think he had one D in his years that became an nhler? Maybe Gudas?

I do see your point. Just wanted to give Prerost some love. I do love everything Czech though.... except Hadamczak and Kral.lol

Kral and Lener... like I say, retire them with beautiful ceremonies and standing ovations. Make it seem nice. It's how the Wing's got rid of Ken Holland! Brought in a younger/better GM and gave him some BS title.. he was gone within months.lol
 

Czechboy

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Yeah I can't see Pytlik being drafted in the first round. He didn't stand out to me at the WJC really. Which is a shame, as he was a very promising prospect a few years back. I remember reading articles about him.

I'm with you on player development. If they can maintain a steady stream of players going to the NHL every year then I'd be happy, even if we didn't bring back medals from the WJC. A competitive team at the Olympics/World Cup is what I care about most.
He did get invited to top Prospects game. He's also a 6'2 Centre. He was also on the first line playing against the other teams top lines while Mysak was pitted against weaker players.

I love both. Don't get me wrong.
OHL breaks down its top prospects - BarrieToday.com

He seems to be on pace to be the next Zacha/Faksa... we'll see.

What I don't like is that he was around 1.5ppg to start season and slowed.. not sure why.

As far as your last line... exactly that! We don't need 100 NHL players.. we need about 40 good ones to compete at the big tourneys. I do feel we have a bronze generation sneaking up:
Goalie - Dostal/Korenar/Skarek and all 3 of our NHL goalies are under 30.
D - Hajek and Hronek project to Top 4.
F - Necas, Chytil, Zadina, Pastrnak, Hertl, Vrana

All good pieces to build on. We have lots of good complimentary players as well (Gudas, Faksa etc.)

Of course, and easily one of my biggest gripes.. the Czech selection process is corrupt in my opinion and would leave NHL players behind in favour of a few Extraliga and Euro guys. No one in the Top 5 does this. We really need to respect our AHL players a lot more too!

Eg. Jenik was our best forward in this tourney. Sik was our worst. A year from now Jenik will be in the AHL and Sik in the Extraliga. Sik stands a much better chance of make the senior team. It's madness. Same with a guy like Zabransky over a guy like Kubicek. Rant done.
 
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Swipes

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I do see your point. Just wanted to give Prerost some love.

Prerost made an enormous number questionable decisions during his time as a coach for the U20s. He gets no love from me at all. He was a very bad coach.
 

Czechboy

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Prerost made an enormous number questionable decisions during his time as a coach for the U20s. He gets no love from me at all. He was a very bad coach.
Example?

FTR.. not arguing just curious?
Eg. I don't want Riha back because I think he favours third liners over NHL players and the NHL players (all 5 of them) will stop coming. My example is Chytil and Vrana as healthy scratches while Zohorna's run wild.
 

Swipes

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Example?

FTR.. not arguing just curious?
Eg. I don't want Riha back because I think he favours third liners over NHL players and the NHL players (all 5 of them) will stop coming. My example is Chytil and Vrana as healthy scratches while Zohorna's run wild.

Have you read Zacha Sr.'s infamous post on the WJC on his website? That's a good place to start (whatever your opinion on Zacha Sr. might be).

Examples:

Like when he sent Karabacek home because he overslept his alarm clock (as did Zacha btw).

Like when he refused to play Zacha on the top line when the guy was playing pretty well.

Favouring players because of connections. Some czech fan found evidence of this and posted it online.

During games he didn't make good adjustments.

Questionable cuts of players before tournaments (although this seems to be a Czech thing)

Etc.
 

Czechboy

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Have you read Zacha Sr.'s infamous post on the WJC on his website? That's a good place to start (whatever your opinion on Zacha Sr. might be).

Examples:

Like when he sent Karabacek home because he overslept his alarm clock (as did Zacha btw).

Like when he refused to play Zacha on the top line when the guy was playing pretty well.

Favouring players because of connections. Some czech fan found evidence of this and posted it online.

During games he didn't make good adjustments.

Questionable cuts of players before tournaments (although this seems to be a Czech thing)

Etc.
Fair enough... I think I like his dedication to it all. He might have more insight on the Czech junior situation than anyone else.

I do think history is making Zacha look like a raving lunatic.
Karabacek did become a flop.. ECHL to Czech second division.. he was a 2nd rounder!
Zacha always had some reason to not play. Injury etc. He's had similar issues in New Jersey - might be a prima donna. Give he's from Brno, a centre and very big.. I really want him to become the next Hertl but health scratches, odd injuries, demotions to AHL etc have plagued him. Him and his father might be their own worst enemies.
I didn't know about the favouring players - not surprising at all! Corruption is rampant. Rucizka comes to mind.lol Or Grandpa Hadamczak not inviting Pitlyk and Barinka playing on top line at U18.. still mad about that one!
 

RBbandit

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I do see your point. Just wanted to give Prerost some love. I do love everything Czech though.... except Hadamczak and Kral.lol

Kral and Lener... like I say, retire them with beautiful ceremonies and standing ovations. Make it seem nice. It's how the Wing's got rid of Ken Holland! Brought in a younger/better GM and gave him some BS title.. he was gone within months.lol

For me, Prerost is just a symptom of Kral&Lener era. The last straw was the way they chose and presented to the public new jerseys with this "chicken with the puck stuffed in the face". I see your point but Wings under Holland won some cups. The results of the Kral&Lener era are just zero, almost no progress. It's sad that after 10-12 years of Kral&Lener CZ players are outplayed by Germans in almost every aspect of the game.
 

Swipes

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Fair enough... I think I like his dedication to it all. He might have more insight on the Czech junior situation than anyone else.

I do think history is making Zacha look like a raving lunatic.
Karabacek did become a flop.. ECHL to Czech second division.. he was a 2nd rounder!
Zacha always had some reason to not play. Injury etc. He's had similar issues in New Jersey - might be a prima donna. Give he's from Brno, a centre and very big.. I really want him to become the next Hertl but health scratches, odd injuries, demotions to AHL etc have plagued him. Him and his father might be their own worst enemies.
I didn't know about the favouring players - not surprising at all! Corruption is rampant. Rucizka comes to mind.lol Or Grandpa Hadamczak not inviting Pitlyk and Barinka playing on top line at U18.. still mad about that one!

How about Barinka at the Olympics? That was bad.

No idea what happened to Karabacek. It's odd.

But yeah. Prerost took the job when no-one else would. So I suppose we should be happy for that.

Yeah not a fan of Zacha Sr or jr much. But let's see, maybe Zacha jr turns it around. But it's disappointing for sure.

Vrana-Zacha-Pastrnak was a nice line back in the day.
 

Czechboy

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For me, Prerost is just a symptom of Kral&Lener era. The last straw was the way they chose and presented to the public new jerseys with this "chicken with the puck stuffed in the face". I see your point but Wings under Holland won some cups. The results of the Kral&Lener era are just zero, almost no progress. It's sad that after 10-12 years of Kral&Lener CZ players are outplayed by Germans in almost every aspect of the game.
Yup... going to U18 in April to watch the Czech/German game (and US one). Hope Svozil/Mysak is enough! Looking forward to them.

FTR.. I'm fine with Prerost/Kral/Lener all gone. Lener is another guy I'd love to have a beer with though! New blood at the top and a plan would be great for anything between 10 and 15 years old.

Don't get me started on the new jersey's.lol
 

Czechboy

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How about Barinka at the Olympics? That was bad.
Grrrr... that infuriated me.

That was roughly when everything went to shit for us.

At that point we had about 45 NHLers and some really good ones but we'd bring Barinka instead of PEAK Jan Hejda. Cut Hudler because we already had Elias. Play Stepanek instead of our NHL goalies. We had potential for very strong teams then and it was s till a Top 6! Canadian media constantly mocking our selections for the teams and I had no defence because we kept picking lesser players.

Now I'm mad.lol

I get we won Nagano with a half NHL squad and 2010 with no NHLers. We should enjoy those victories and not purposely pick weaker teams because it worked then.lol
 

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