CXLVIII - NHL BOG approves sale and relocation of Coyotes to Ryan Smith, league announces establishment of franchise in Utah

[GKJ]

He does not intend to sell the Roadrunners from the sound of it. It would appear he wants to screw over Tucson as well.

What is the Roadrunners future in Arizona?

Alex Meruelo will maintain ownership of the Tucson Roadrunners after the sale of the Coyotes to Ryan Smith, with the Roadrunners continuing to serve as the

gophnx.com

Yeah I just came across this. Beyond that it seems like the building in Tucson is getting business they necessarily aren’t that very keen on, but they lived it it and as a result have a grassroots footprint there too.

Only workaround may be to see if an ECHL team would a way? Otherwise, why alienate more of your fanbase?

 

[DustyDangler]

Yeah I just came across this. Beyond that it seems like the building in Tucson is getting business they necessarily aren’t that very keen on, but they lived it it and as a result have a grassroots footprint there too.

Only workaround may be to see if an ECHL team would a way? Otherwise, why alienate more of your fanbase?

The obvious ECHL team would be the Grizzlies.

Coyotes to SLC
Grizzlies to Tucson
Roadrunners to Tempe

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Yeah I just came across this. Beyond that it seems like the building in Tucson is getting business they necessarily aren’t that very keen on, but they lived it it and as a result have a grassroots footprint there too.

Only workaround may be to see if an ECHL team would a way? Otherwise, why alienate more of your fanbase?

it would depend on who would own an ECHL Team if not AM... BUT PAST EXPERIENCE in both leagues would have to involve a proposal for a franchise independent of the RR's AND WHAT NHL team would get 1st option if not Utah (same w/ SEG allowing the RR's TO NOT be part of the sale/transfer.

The obvious ECHL team would be the Grizzlies.

Coyotes to SLC
Grizzlies to Tucson
Roadrunners to Tempe

except Utah currently is affiliated w/ Colorado.... and is rumored to be relocating to Idaho Falls from some reports I've seen.... there are also reports from KSL that it's up to Elmore IF THEY want to return to the AHL... BUT that's their call but early chatter is there will be hockey next season at Maverik Center, now whether or not that's the existing Grizzlies.

 

[GKJ]

it would depend on who would own an ECHL Team if not AM... BUT PAST EXPERIENCE in both leagues would have to involve a proposal for a franchise independent of the RR's AND WHAT NHL team would get 1st option if not Utah (same w/ SEG allowing the RR's TO NOT be part of the sale/transfer.


except Utah currently is affiliated w/ Colorado.... and is rumored to be relocating to Idaho Falls from some reports I've seen

If the Grizzlies are moving on that would answer the question I’d have about whether or not Ryan Smith wants to engage there. He’s spoken about Utah’s history with minor hockey at length. You figure he’d want an affiliate close by, especially when they do have a building and he owns the G-League team that plays there.

Have to think it eventually happens.

In a Tucson-ECHL scenario, the Growlers could relocate there too.

 

[madhi19]

If they keep the management in place I think the Draft would go smoothly... everything else? Yeah... going to take a lot of work within a few short months.

Depend on how long they been at it, but you really can't start on branding until you picked a name, and picking a name mean securing the trademark and clearing it with the league. Hard to do all that quietly, but you better do it ASAP. If you don't want some jackass squatting those trademarks faster than you can secure them. Same goes for website domains, and a thousands other details. Honestly it would be way easier if they kept the branding for say a season before the big rebrand. That way you could secure two or three trademarks, have the fans pick one, and create buzz all next season.

 

[DustyDangler]

it would depend on who would own an ECHL Team if not AM... BUT PAST EXPERIENCE in both leagues would have to involve a proposal for a franchise independent of the RR's AND WHAT NHL team would get 1st option if not Utah (same w/ SEG allowing the RR's TO NOT be part of the sale/transfer.


except Utah currently is affiliated w/ Colorado.... and is rumored to be relocating to Idaho Falls from some reports I've seen

Thank you for that nugget...Idaho Falls is a couple hours from me.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Depend on how long they been at it, but you really can't start on branding until you picked a name, and picking a name mean securing the trademark and clearing it with the league. Hard to do all that quietly, but you better do it ASAP. If you don't want some jackass squatting those trademarks faster than you can secure them. Same goes for website domains, and a thousands other details. Honestly it would be way easier if they kept the branding for say a season before the big rebrand. That way you could secure two or three trademarks, have the fans pick one, and create buzz all next season.

They should have a name (or three) already picked out and ready to go. You don't start the process now.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

If the Grizzlies are moving on that would answer the question I’d have about whether or not Ryan Smith wants to engage there. He’s spoken about Utah’s history with minor hockey at length. You figure he’d want an affiliate close by, especially when they do have a building and he owns the G-League team that plays there.

Have to think it eventually happens.

In a Tucson-ECHL scenario, the Growlers could relocate there too.

the Growlers would've continued just as the Lions in T/R did if there had been a new owner before the league deadline of 4/2.... the ECHL, just like the NHL/AHL... Has final say over its membership..... Spire Hockey already had Greenville and Rapid City in its portfolio as it's a separate division than Spire Motorsports which is currently operating three Cup and Three Craftsman Truck teams after acquiring KBM in the off season while adding assets after the dissolution of GMS Racing as they elected to focus on Legacy MC's Cup efforts.... that's why the ECHL North went to a points percentage foe its playoff after the termination of Newfoundland...

 

[jkrdevil]

Wasn’t Salt Lake previously part of Arizona’s tv territory? I remember reading when they moved to over the air this year as part of the Bally’s Sports collapse that Coyotes games would be on an affiliate in Utah. So it seems the territory would just swap with Utah being the prime territory and Az being secondary.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Wasn’t Salt Lake previously part of Arizona’s tv territory? I remember reading when they moved to over the air this year as part of the Bally’s Sports collapse that Coyotes games would be on an affiliate in Utah. So it seems the territory would just swap with Utah being the prime territory and Az being secondary.

wasn't it Vegas that might have to be compensated......

 

[TheLegend]

If you are the fan I think ( know ) you are, then this is absolutely killing you.
Yet here you are still talking rationally without emotion while guys like Ernie are roasting you over coals.
Takes a special person to take all that and still keep yourself calm and cool.
I tip my hat to you, because I couldn’t do it. Pretty sure you know that about me lol
I hope you stick around
And you have my condolences on the relocation.
I’m super glad it’s happening, but it’s a tad bittersweet to see fans like you take the hit.

It’s one of the reasons why I buried the fanboy hat back around 2010.

Once you understand that there’s nothing you can do to the situation you just try to learn as much you can from it. I’m an analyst just by nature. I like looking for the actual reasons why something fails rather than yammering over the superficial things.

Which is one of the reasons why I stuck with this for so long.

You can point to a lot of things and see where things have gone wrong. But you have to start with how the franchise got here in the first place. Then look at every mistake that was made since then to fix it. And there were plenty. Nearly all of them were what I’d classify as “quick and dirty”. Those rarely, if ever, last and we’ve pretty much covered them all here.

As for me I plan on sticking around. I’m curious to how this “plan” is going to pan out.

I will say I do think we’ll see a franchise back in Arizona down the road.

BUT….

I’d rather see it with someone other than Meruelo. I think the NHL does to, but they had to go through these motions to mitigate the damage and keep their own asses out of the courts.

Like always though the fans end up with the check…. And that part sucks.

 

[TheLegend]

Wasn’t Salt Lake previously part of Arizona’s tv territory? I remember reading when they moved to over the air this year as part of the Bally’s Sports collapse that Coyotes games would be on an affiliate in Utah. So it seems the territory would just swap with Utah being the prime territory and Az being secondary.

Yes…. But when Vegas entered the league they were given SLC and the NW corner of Arizona.

Scripps Sports is/was the broadcast partner for both and their parent company owns TV stations in both Phoix and SLC.

I’d by lying if I didn’t feel there was some preemptive work going on there at that time. I wasn’t the only person who notice that and had a raised eyebrow or two.

Because the contract with the Coyotes came well after the Tempe vote had failed and we’re seeing that failed vote may have set this “relocation” in motion then.

I’m curious to see what they do with this. Whether Utah gets the Arizona market or Vegas. The Coyotes also had parts of New Mexico too. Does that get moved to Dallas or Colorado.

 

[awfulwaffle]

Yes…. But when Vegas entered the league they were given SLC and the NW corner of Arizona.

Scripps Sports is/was the broadcast partner for both and their parent company owns TV station in both Phoix and SLC.

I’d by lying if I didn’t feel there was some preemptive work going on there at that time. I wasn’t the only person who notice that and had a raised eyebrow or two.

Because the contract with the Coyotes came well after the Tempe vote had failed and we’re seeing that failed vote may have set this “relocation” in motion then.

I’m curious to see what they do with this. Whether Utah gets the Arizona market or Vegas. The Coyotes also had parts of New Mexico too. Does that get moved to Dallas or Colorado.

That'd be interesting if for some odd reason, even though Vegas would be closer, Phoenix would stay with SLC. Atleast that way, those that are still interested in how the little kids are doing, can check in on them and make sure they are still kicking butt and taking names.

 

[CuuuJooo]

Why say anything if you insist on saying nothing?

In all-caps, no less.

 

[Stumbledore]

Well the obvious question would be who gets to be the "local" team in Arizona now.

That being said I don't think regional TV rights are worth as much as they used to be - even more so regional rights for areas not really in your region (like Utah would be for Vegas).

Have you seen the TV audience for the Coyotes? Apart from all the finger pointing over whose fault it was, very few people watched/found the Coyotes games on the screen. I suspect the TV rights were never worth very much.

 

[Dolemite]

Have you seen the TV audience for the Coyotes? Apart from all the finger pointing over whose fault it was, very few people watched/found the Coyotes games on the screen. I suspect the TV rights were never worth very much.

It was the fact that multiple teams were on the same pay cable channel. The Suns were number 1 until their new owner put them back on free tv recently.

 

[TheLegend]

Some more info on what’s going on with the Roadrunners… (not paywalled I think.)

There are several hurdles indeed.

What is the Roadrunners future in Arizona?

Alex Meruelo will maintain ownership of the Tucson Roadrunners after the sale of the Coyotes to Ryan Smith, with the Roadrunners continuing to serve as the

gophnx.com

 

[Dolemite]

Food for thought…

Would the Coyotes be in this situation had:

- Glendale followed through with their original plans for Westgate?
- Wayne Gretzky didn’t drive the team into the ground as head of Hockey Ops for the team?

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Have you seen the TV audience for the Coyotes? Apart from all the finger pointing over whose fault it was, very few people watched/found the Coyotes games on the screen. I suspect the TV rights were never worth very much.

I've been a Phoenix market defender since probably 2016 in this saga, and even I will acknowledge the TV numbers are really bad. Having a better on ice product probably would have gone a long way in attracting any kind of good local owner/tv eyeballs.

I define a successful season in the NHL as "Winning a playoff round when your home fans could actually attend games."

In that sense, the Coyotes have had exactly one "Successful Season" since moving to the market.

Heck, the franchise as a whole has only had three "successful seasons" since joining the NHL in 1979.

Food for thought…

Would the Coyotes be in this situation had:

- Glendale followed through with their original plans for Westgate?
- Wayne Gretzky didn’t drive the team into the ground as head of Hockey Ops for the team?

Yes and Probably Yes.

For one, the local ownership situation probably falls apart anyways, which is the root of all their problems.

For two, maybe they would have had a better on ice product, but I don't think they'd ever have turned themselves into a contender. Gretzky was a marketing gimmick, and a team turns to a marketing gimmick when they're already in a weak position.

Given the history of owners, I can't imagine either really making a difference.

 

[jkrdevil]

how much of the attendance / viewership issues are a result of the market not wanting to get committed because the long term outlook wasn’t there

You had the 04-05 lockout which hurt the neeer markets across the league especially those who weren’t competitive coming out of it, then the recession adding to the financial issues leading to the bankruptcy. Then the cycle of owners and search for new arena with relocation hanging over everything for the next decade. Unlike say Nashville, they never got a clear signal the team is here and committed from the team / league.

A new Coyotes team with a new arena may have a different story.

 

[MaskedSonja]

Part of the current fascination with me, on a slightly difference course, is seeing a kind of real time-delay in how information about this situation is filtering to general viewing. I get not everyone follows on the HoF or similar boards. But while the TSNs and ESPNs are getting info out once they can verify, but-well Im seeing the Yotes news coming into like your youtubes, which some channels are still at the "Yotes and NHL rumored to be making agreement" phase, to further seeing literally "Wow, theres a big rumor Yotes might be moving-here are the current possible cities". And said comments from people (again who are casual of casual maybe dont even follow much NHL) saying things like "wow I could see like the Yotes go to SLC (with the Yotes name) and "what do we call them SLC Yotes?". To even comments like "Maybe they'll go to SLC for 4 years till arena gets built, then COME BACK (my emphasis) to "test" to see if SLC could do well with expansion.

TLR How the news has filtered out from die hard followers to Casual of Casual fans, and what "stage" their news is at is fascinating to see how the news filters out.

 

[GKJ]

Food for thought…

Would the Coyotes be in this situation had:

- Glendale followed through with their original plans for Westgate?
- Wayne Gretzky didn’t drive the team into the ground as head of Hockey Ops for the team?

Gretzky was replaced by any number of people since then, maybe he had a bad business deal, but as a hockey ops person, he's no more to blame than folks like John Chayka were.

 

[mouser]

Well the obvious question would be who gets to be the "local" team in Arizona now.

That being said I don't think regional TV rights are worth as much as they used to be - even more so regional rights for areas not really in your region (like Utah would be for Vegas).

The NHL assigns each team a Home Territory and a sphere of influence—generally meaning territory outside the home market where the team holds the rights to broadcast their games. I believe the NHL permits territory in those spheres of influence to be shared amongst multiple teams.

I’ve never seen a good article on whether and how the NHL addresses compensation for teams losing rights to those markets outside the home territory. For example: I have a 16-28 year old map of the Coyotes’ sphere of influence. It includes all of New Mexico and most of Nevada other than Las Vegas. I presume all of the Nevada rights were lost when the Knights entered the league or earlier, but haven’t seen a newer rights map.

 

[mouser]

If I were the city of Phoenix, I'd pull the auction altogether after the announcement.

The auction is by the state of Arizona Land Department, not the city of Phoenix.

The Land Department board probably has the option to delay or cancel the auction if they believe something material in AM’s developer proposal has changed. I’d have to go back and look through all the published Land Department documents to see if there’s any details actually requiring AM to host and build an arena large enough for a major professional league sports team. I suspect the docs will be light on specifics.

 

[Llama19]

Why are the Coyotes moving to Utah? We don't care enough about hockey in Arizona

Source: www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nhl/coyotes/2024/04/15/coyotes-salt-lake-city-utah-arizona-nhl-arena/73333558007/