Current Ovechkin vs Prime Iginla

[GreatGonzo]

Which of OV's seasons since 2010 was better than Iginla's 2001/02 season?

Are you saying now that a season with a Cup/Smythe win(while still being dominant in the regular season)ISNT better than a season with a Art Ross/Lindsay/and Hart nominee?

I always thought the playoffs were much more valuable than the regular season. At least that’s the idea you always push, strange how suddenly, you change your stance, and now a guy who won the Rocket, Art Ross, Lindsay, and was a Hart Nominee....but couldn’t get his team
Into the post season is now a better season than a guy who won Rocket, Smythe, and Cup?

 

[Regal]

Iginla's best two seasons are better than Ovechkin's 17/18 easily. But Iginla was less consistent: went from 52 goals/96 points to 35 goals/67 points in '01-'03.

Iggy had a weak year by his standards in '06 too. But this is why it's hard to compare one season to a "prime". Last year Ovechkin had a similar year to Iginla's '02-03, but he was also a worse player than he was this year, so I don't know if that would constitute "current" Ovechkin or not.

 

[Regal]

There's Daver in to remind everyone Ovechkin is just okay. Right on cue.

Why do so many people on here take every comparison that doesn't favour their team's player as an insult? Iginla was objectively more productive in the '02 regular season than Ovechkin has been in any year since '10. That's really not debatable, and doesn't make Ovechkin "just okay"

 

[Plural]

Why do so many people on here take every comparison that doesn't favour their team's player as an insult? Iginla was objectively more productive in the '02 regular season than Ovechkin has been in any year since '10. That's really not debatable, and doesn't make Ovechkin "just okay"

It's got more to do with his reputation on this site than anything. People just like giving him hard time because of his mental gymnastics and double standards. Which he seems to be incapable of seeing himself.

 

[daver]

It's got more to do with his reputation on this site than anything. People just like giving him hard time because of his mental gymnastics and double standards. Which he seems to be incapable of seeing himself.

As always, love to hear some specific examples of these double standards and/or why Iggy 2002 vs. OV post 2010 is an example of one.

 

[GreatGonzo]

As always, love to hear some specific examples of these double standards and/or why Iggy 2002 vs. OV post 2010 is an example of one.

Your doing it right now....

Your consistent stance on a McDavid and Crosby is that Crosby is/was better because of playoff success......now your saying a player who made purely regular season success had a better season than a player who won the “important” trophies, all while being dominant in the regular season.nin fact, you ALWAYS favor playoff success, but suddenly you have a change of mind?

So which is it? Don’t act surprised we are calling you out on this, your the one who now suddenly has a soft spot for regular season success and is downplaying a Smythe/cup.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Why do so many people on here take every comparison that doesn't favour their team's player as an insult? Iginla was objectively more productive in the '02 regular season than Ovechkin has been in any year since '10. That's really not debatable, and doesn't make Ovechkin "just okay"

When a certain poster has a history of picking playoff success over regular season success, but then suddenly changes his stance....and the player he is flipping it on happens to be his favorite players rival, It becomes just annoying. It has nothing to do with favoritism, it’s rhe fact that the one player he didn’t want winning the cup/Smythe won both, the holy grail of Hockey....but now that isn’t an impressive season anymore.

 

[daver]

Your doing it right now....

Your consistent stance on a McDavid and Crosby is that Crosby is/was better because of playoff success......now your saying a player who made purely regular season success had a better season than a player who won the “important” trophies, all while being dominant in the regular season.nin fact, you ALWAYS favor playoff success, but suddenly you have a change of mind?

Great strawman as always.

Crosby's INDIVIDUAL playoff performance > McDavid's INDIVIDUAL playoff performance

Iggy had a great INDIVIDUAL playoff performance in 2004 that was very close to OV's.

Iggy had a clearly better regular season performance in 01/02 than OV did post 2010.

 

[Regal]

When a certain poster has a history of picking playoff success over regular season success, but then suddenly changes his stance....and the player he is flipping it on happens to be his favorite players rival, It becomes just annoying. It has nothing to do with favoritism, it’s rhe fact that the one player he didn’t want winning the cup/Smythe won both, the holy grail of Hockey....but now that isn’t an impressive season anymore.

But he mentioned the playoffs when he included Iginla's '04 run, and the '02 comment was just about regular seasons. Yes, they're different years, but Iginla still showed what he was capable of in the playoffs in his "prime". If we were just comparing a single year of regular season and playoffs combined, I think Daver and most people would lean toward Ovechkin. I know Daver's reputation as resident Crosby-poster, but I think he generally gives Ovechkin his due in those comparisons. Any bias seems to be more about propping up Sid more than he maybe deserves.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Great strawman as always.

Crosby's INDIVIDUAL playoff performance > McDavid's INDIVIDUAL playoff performance

Iggy had a great INDIVIDUAL playoff performance in 2004 that was very close to OV's.

Iggy had a clearly better regular season performance in 01/02 than OV did post 2010.

Yet your saying Iginlas INDIVIDUAL regular season success> Ovechkins INDIVIDUAL playoff success.....why?

Maybe close in number but one walked away with a Smythe and cup while the other didn’t. You can debate that it’s “close” but it’s pretty black and white.

We are talking about Ovechkin NOW, not 8 years ago. And by your standards, Ovechkin 2018 should be better than Iginla 2002. Once again, your going against your own logic....your just using the phrase “post 2010” to broaden your argument and steer away from what he has achieved this year.

But he mentioned the playoffs when he included Iginla's '04 run, and the '02 comment was just about regular seasons. Yes, they're different years, but Iginla still showed what he was capable of in the playoffs in his "prime". If we were just comparing a single year of regular season and playoffs combined, I think Daver and most people would lean toward Ovechkin. I know Daver's reputation as resident Crosby-poster, but I think he generally gives Ovechkin his due in those comparisons. Any bias seems to be more about propping up Sid more than he maybe deserves.

but Was Iginla in 04 better than Iginla in 02? I mean Ovechkins 2018 year is still better than Iginlas overall 2004 year, while Ovechkins 2018 should be more valuable than Iginlas 2002 based on the idea that playoffs>regular season.

 

[Regal]

but Was Iginla in 04 better than Iginla in 02? I mean Ovechkins 2018 year is still better than Iginlas overall 2004 year, while Ovechkins 2018 should be more valuable than Iginlas 2002 based on the idea that playoffs>regular season.

In terms of a strict comparison of individual seasons, I agree, but I don't know if that's necessarily what this thread is about. It seems to be more about the general ability of both in these time periods. The idea being that Iginla showed what he was capable of in the regular season in '02 and what he was capable of in the playoffs in '04, and being only 2 years apart, and him not showing a marked difference in skill within the two seasons, it seems reasonable that the two could have just as easily coincided within the same season. Realistically, playoffs and regular season should probably looked at somewhat separately simply because playoffs is a small sample, and it's chance more than anything that a team will make a long run after a player's best regular season. If we use both combined to start comparing player abilities we'd end up with some exaggerated conclusions, such as current Ovechkin being much closer to '10 Ovechkin than he really is. Though I do see the irony with Daver when he likes to combine playoffs and regular season in a 16-17 comparison between Crosby and McDavid, or comparisons between Crosby and Ovechkin during the '07-08 to 09-10 period.

 

[daver]

Yet your saying Iginlas INDIVIDUAL regular season success> Ovechkins INDIVIDUAL playoff success.....why?

Yet you are creating strawmen arguments out of the blue......why?

Gonzo being Gonzo...

 

[daver]

Though I do see the irony with Daver when he likes to combine playoffs and regular season in a 16-17 comparison between Crosby and McDavid, or comparisons between Crosby and Ovechkin during the '07-08 to 09-10 period.

There is no irony when the context of the comparisons are different. I think the OP is asking if current OV, as in the OV of the past 6 or 7 years, is as good as Iggy in his prime of six or seven years, not if OV's current season was as good as Iggy's best season in his prime.

I think the OV of the past 6 or 7 years is pretty close to a prime Iggy.

 

[Regal]

There is no irony when the context of the comparisons are different. I think the OP is asking if current OV, as in the OV of the past 6 or 7 years, is as good as Iggy in his prime of six or seven years, not if OV's current season was as good as Iggy's best season in his prime.

I think the OV of the past 6 or 7 years is pretty close to a prime Iggy.

When you do several year comparisons you tend to take the lump sum of playoff contributions as most do, with the idea that playoffs are a small sample size and that showing someone is capable in the playoffs overall is more important than necessarily specific runs. However, when you compare Ovechkin and Crosby season by season, you tend to use the longer runs by Crosby as an equalizer during Ovechkin's peak, in terms of adding them individually to his regular seasons, despite Ovechkin showing over this time period he can produce just fine in the playoffs. Theoretically, if Iginla in '04 shows that '02 Iginla was also likely capable in the playoffs, then Ovechkin's entire run of play during his peak (which was rather ridiculous production), should be more important in showing what he was capable of than picking through the seasons year by year.

 

[daver]

When you do several year comparisons you tend to take the lump sum of playoff contributions as most do, with the idea that playoffs are a small sample size and that showing someone is capable in the playoffs overall is more important than necessarily specific runs. However, when you compare Ovechkin and Crosby season by season, you tend to use the longer runs by Crosby as an equalizer during Ovechkin's peak, in terms of adding them individually to his regular seasons, despite Ovechkin showing over this time period he can produce just fine in the playoffs. Theoretically, if Iginla in '04 shows that '02 Iginla was also likely capable in the playoffs, then Ovechkin's entire run of play during his peak (which was rather ridiculous production), should be more important in showing what he was capable of than picking through the seasons year by year.

I think most in the HOH place a lot more value on specific runs, andon playoff performances being a strong compliment to, if not on the same level as, regular season performances.

The playoffs are a whole different animal and great playoff runs need to be recognized.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Yet you are creating strawmen arguments out of the blue......why?

Gonzo being Gonzo...

You can cry straw man all you want, doesn’t change the fact that your going backwards on your usual stances when it comes to regular season and post season.

If this was a Crosby thread though, you would be guns blazing all for post season success....but yes continue ignoring them everything I say, Daver being Daver.

There is no irony when the context of the comparisons are different. I think the OP is asking if current OV, as in the OV of the past 6 or 7 years, is as good as Iggy in his prime of six or seven years, not if OV's current season was as good as Iggy's best season in his prime.

I think the OV of the past 6 or 7 years is pretty close to a prime Iggy.

“current” Ovechkins isn’t Ovechkin from 2011 or so on though. Your being broad to avoid the argument YOU always make. Since when is current 5+ years ago?

Current Ovi is the best goal scorer in the league and now a Stanley cup and Conn Smythe Winner. Let’s stop rewinding to 6-7 years ago and focus on what has recently happened shall we?

 

[GreatGonzo]

I think most in the HOH place a lot more value on specific runs, andon playoff performances being a strong compliment to, if not on the same level as, regular season performances.

The playoffs are a whole different animal and great playoff runs need to be recognized.

That’s weird considering your ignoring what Ovechkin did these past playoffs.

 

[jw2]

This does say “current Ovechkin vs PRIME Iginla”, right?


Hf fail.

 

[CraigsList]

Prime Iggy for sure. If it was prime Ovi vs. prime Iggy it would be Ovi for sure.

 

[6 Karlsson 5]

How is it that everyone argues "pace" against Ovechkin when Ovechkin is the only god damn player who actually plays 82 games and scores his "pace" numbers.

because people use inductive/deductive (depends on how you frame it) reasoning to build arguments.