Cup goes to court

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Boltsfan2029

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Jul 8, 2002
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dolfanar said:
Well, the Lightning, in theory, could miss the playoffs and not defend the cup the following year. Same differance.

But we would have had the 82 games to have the chance to defend the title which, if they give it to Joe's Diddly Bops, we technically would not.
 

Crosbyfan

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Nov 27, 2003
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dolfanar said:
I'm not so sure the level of play is quite that dramatic of a fall off. The Russian, Finland and Swedes might be able to "embarass" these teams, and possibly a well stocked AHL team, but I doubt it would be quite that one-sided, and I think you might see an upset or two.

For me, that would be the interest in this kind of tournament. You hear alot of talk about relative skill level between the leagues under the NHL... well this would be one of the only times you could put these guy's against each other in games that really "matter".

games I would be *very* curious to see

NCAA vs Canadian Junior
AHL vs ECHL
AHL vs Russia, Finland, Sweden, etc... (Where do the Calder Cup champions rank?)
Russia vs ther Euro leagues (Is Russia really #2 behind the NHL when the ante is as big as the stanley Cup?)

It wouldn't give a "difinitive" answer, but it would be great fodder for a hockey debate... what more can you ask for from a tournament?

I agree with you. The NHL is unwilling to play for the cup. Let the best COMPETITORS compete for the cup.
 

Hab-a-maniac

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It's real nice to say as a grand statement that the NHL doesn't own the Stanley Cup, the game of hockey does!!! But no, that's not quite true. Since 1927, they've had exclusive rights to it and have turned down requests to have rival leagues challenge for it so why should this be any different? It's like awarding the Super Bowl to the AFL champs or the World Series to AAA baseball if their seasons were wiped out. The cup has become too big to be duked out for by some team on dogsleds from Dawson City or even for minor leagues and the Swedish Elite League. You'd just be rewarding players that are on lockout right now if you included all European leagues in the mix. Yet if you make it exclusively for minor leagues and junior leagues in Canada, then it's a joke and it devalues their trophies (such as the Calder and Memorial Cup), let alone the NHL when some 30-year old 4th liner in the ECHL gets his name on it.
 

NYRangers

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Hab-a-maniac said:
It's real nice to say as a grand statement that the NHL doesn't own the Stanley Cup, the game of hockey does!!! But no, that's not quite true. Since 1927, they've had exclusive rights to it and have turned down requests to have rival leagues challenge for it so why should this be any different? It's like awarding the Super Bowl to the AFL champs or the World Series to AAA baseball if their seasons were wiped out. The cup has become too big to be duked out for by some team on dogsleds from Dawson City or even for minor leagues and the Swedish Elite League. You'd just be rewarding players that are on lockout right now if you included all European leagues in the mix. Yet if you make it exclusively for minor leagues and junior leagues in Canada, then it's a joke and it devalues their trophies (such as the Calder and Memorial Cup), let alone the NHL when some 30-year old 4th liner in the ECHL gets his name on it.

It seems that way, I agree. But legally, the NHl doesn't own it and they actually do have a ligitimate case.
 

Weary

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Jul 1, 2003
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Hab-a-maniac said:
It's real nice to say as a grand statement that the NHL doesn't own the Stanley Cup, the game of hockey does!!! But no, that's not quite true. Since 1927, they've had exclusive rights to it and have turned down requests to have rival leagues challenge for it so why should this be any different? It's like awarding the Super Bowl to the AFL champs or the World Series to AAA baseball if their seasons were wiped out. The cup has become too big to be duked out for by some team on dogsleds from Dawson City or even for minor leagues and the Swedish Elite League. You'd just be rewarding players that are on lockout right now if you included all European leagues in the mix. Yet if you make it exclusively for minor leagues and junior leagues in Canada, then it's a joke and it devalues their trophies (such as the Calder and Memorial Cup), let alone the NHL when some 30-year old 4th liner in the ECHL gets his name on it.
So what if the NHL is superceded by another league? Does the Cup then stay with the NHL or does it go to the superior league? You've got to decide whether it's exclusive to the NHL or exclusive to the best hockey. You've taken both sides of that argument.
 

kdb209

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Jan 26, 2005
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Weary said:
So what if the NHL is superceded by another league? Does the Cup then stay with the NHL or does it go to the superior league? You've got to decide whether it's exclusive to the NHL or exclusive to the best hockey. You've taken both sides of that argument.

The Cup trustees came to an exclusive agreement with the NHL, so unless that agreement is changed or the NHL assigns it's rights to a successor league the Stanley Cup stays with the NHL.
 

Injektilo

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Feb 3, 2005
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kdb209 said:
The Cup trustees came to an exclusive agreement with the NHL,


But the challenge is that that agreement wasn't legal, it was contrary to Lord Stanley's wishes, and therefore the arguement can be made that the agreement should be considered null and void.
 

kdb209

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Jan 26, 2005
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Injektilo said:
But the challenge is that that agreement wasn't legal, it was contrary to Lord Stanley's wishes, and therefore the arguement can be made that the agreement should be considered null and void.

But until a court rules otherwise, the Cup belongs to the NHL.

The Attorney-General of Ontario looked into this and his opinion was there were no grounds for overturning the trustee agreement, despite the briefs written by the Edmonton lawyers behind freestanley.com.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/sports/national/2005/02/18/Sports/stanley_cup050218.html

The Government of Ontario was thinking of trying to take the Stanley Cup away from the NHL and awarding it in a Canada-wide challenge tournament, but after examining the facts, concluded it couldn't be done.

Ontario Attorney General Michael Bryant admitted in an interview with the Toronto Star that he had lawyers explore the possibility repatriating "the Stanley Cup for all Canadians."

"This would have been one of those cases where justice would have been achieved and a lot of joy along with it," he said.

"Sadly there was no way to do it."

...

"We reviewed that and we considered the Edmonton legal opinion and saw if there was anything that Ontario had any jurisdiction on and whether or not there was any law anywhere in Canada because I'd be happy to assist on this," he said.

"But it turns out that that is one door we're going to have to close."

So, it's possible that some day a Canadian Court may rule on this, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
 

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AM

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Nov 22, 2004
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youre right

Hab-a-maniac said:
It's real nice to say as a grand statement that the NHL doesn't own the Stanley Cup, the game of hockey does!!! But no, that's not quite true. Since 1927, they've had exclusive rights to it and have turned down requests to have rival leagues challenge for it so why should this be any different? It's like awarding the Super Bowl to the AFL champs or the World Series to AAA baseball if their seasons were wiped out. The cup has become too big to be duked out for by some team on dogsleds from Dawson City or even for minor leagues and the Swedish Elite League. You'd just be rewarding players that are on lockout right now if you included all European leagues in the mix. Yet if you make it exclusively for minor leagues and junior leagues in Canada, then it's a joke and it devalues their trophies (such as the Calder and Memorial Cup), let alone the NHL when some 30-year old 4th liner in the ECHL gets his name on it.

But since 1927 there has been an NHL season... there wasnt one ths year.

And the cup predates the NHL.
 
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