CuJo or Mike Richter?

Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by Puckgenius*, May 22, 2011.

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  1. Puckgenius*

    Puckgenius* Guest

    Who was the better goalie in their prime? Both small frame goalies but were allstars in their primes.
     
  2. TheDevilMadeMe

    TheDevilMadeMe Registered User

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    When Richter was on (1994 and 1997 playoffs, 1996 World Cup), he was better than Cujo at his best, I think. But Cujo was much more consistent during his prime and also had a much longer prime.
     
  3. McRpro

    McRpro Call the rulebook!

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    Hmmm is that the year the Rangers lost in the ECF to the Flyers? I'm not sure how good Richter played that year but Cujo absolutely stole the first round series VS the Stars that year. One of the best goaltending performances I have ever seen.
     
  4. DrVanntastic

    DrVanntastic Registered User

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    Voted Richter. I actually think that they were pretty even, but Richter's magnificent play in the 94 Finals and 96 World Cup, plus his Cup and Medal from his play give him the edge IMO.

    Good poll! :handclap:
     
  5. Stephen

    Stephen Registered User

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    I'm going to say Cujo. Outside of 1994, and 1996, which were better peaks for Richter with his cup win and World Cup, Cujo had a way longer prime where he was a more useful number one workhorse, which lasted from the early 90s till the mid '00s. Richter's last 7 years in New York sans playoffs were disappointing years, while Cujo was quite the impact player for the Oilers and Leafs. Richter played in 600 odd games, Cujo almost 1000.
     
  6. overpass

    overpass Registered User

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    What is this, the 1998 free agency thread?
     
  7. Poignant Discussion*

    Poignant Discussion* I tell it like it is

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    Great poll, I voted even. Both were great goaltenders during their primes. Richter had a better prime but Cujo had a longer prime (on average teams)
     
  8. blue425

    blue425 Registered User

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    This. And I love Mike Richter.
     
  9. Big Phil

    Big Phil Registered User

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    I know for sure that I never saw Joseph play as great as Richter did at the 1996 World Cup or the 1994 playoffs. However, Richter was so darn inconsistent while I think in his prime Cujo was a little more reliable although he certainly has his warts for not elevating his play as the playoffs carried on.

    Overall Cujo had the better career, Richter had the better individual effort and Cujo had the longer prime
     
  10. 007

    007 You 'Orns!

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    I voted for Richter, on the logic that he reached higher heights of play. I didn't really think to take into account that CuJo was at his best for a far longer period of time, but it's a valid point and certainly complicates things. I'm a fan of both -- great goalies with unmistakable, unique styles.

    I do have to say this: the last several years of Richter's career, his reputation was tarnished by some horrible, horrible Rangers teams. I've always thought that he gets more criticism for his play in that period than he deserves -- his numbers weren't good, but as a Ranger fan, I got to watch him single-handedly keep his team in so many games. I feel he was playing as well as you could ask of any goalie.

    The way I see it, I had the benefit of watching him almost every game, and thus could see that he was trying to achieve the impossible on a nightly basis -- which you couldn't really see when you watch a few Rangers games here and there and check out the stats. Others might argue that I'm biased, as a Rangers fan and a Richter fan. I can't honestly tell you which is the truth.
     
  11. Stephen

    Stephen Registered User

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    I don't know, the Rangers return to respectability has also coincided with Henrik Lundqvist's arrival, which has given them all-star workhorse goaltending year in and year out the way Cujo did for the Blues, Oilers and Leafs. The Rangers are drafting better these days but their tendency to purchase high price UFA talent is the same as when Richter was a Ranger. Seems like the big difference is a goalie who can be the glue to hold things together.
     
  12. n1cON

    n1cON bleeds blue ! ! !

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    Exactly. Voted for Mike too!
     
  13. Mack Attack

    Mack Attack Bears and Sens fan

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    Cujo has a gold medal, Richter has a silver. Cujo AINEC :sarcasm:
     
  14. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    This.
     
  15. jkrx

    jkrx Registered User

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    I dont think Richter had a higher prime. He was godly in World Cup but during an NHL season and playoffs I think CuJo was better. I voted CuJo by the slimmest of margins.
     
  16. tony d

    tony d Registered User Sponsor

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    Close but Curtis Joseph
     
  17. TheMoreYouKnow

    TheMoreYouKnow Registered User

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    Cujo by a bit for me. If you don't just cherrypick games, Cujo was pretty consistently elite whereas outside his highlights Richter was a very good but not elite goaltender.
     
  18. MS

    MS 1%er

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    My take on the 1997-2003 Richter is the exact opposite.

    I think he was in a similar situation to the post-1991 Bill Ranford - a guy whose skills had substantially eroded but was excused for mediocre play by the fact that the team around him was perceived to be poor.

    When Richter was injured in 2002, a journeyman starter in Mike Dunham came in and posted numbers that absolute blew away anything Richter had posted in years. So it was possible to stop pucks on those teams.

    To me, Richter was a guy who had 2 elite seasons (1993-94 culminating in the Cup win, and 1996-97 starting with the World Cup) that were huge outliers in a career that outside of those years was that of a very average starting goalie.

    Joseph didn't have the couple major highs that Richter did, but was consistently a much more reliable goalie.
     
  19. pld459666

    pld459666 Registered User

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    .

    The results with Richter in nets Post lockout may not have been exactly the same as they have been because I believe Lundqvist to be a better goalie than Richter, but I do believe that the team would have made the PO's the same amount of times that we have since the lockout.

    There has been a big difference in overall focus from the Org. with a team defence first mentality post lockout regardless of Jagr's gaudy numbers. The Rangers pre-lockout were never good defensively and had alot of offensive passengers which made Mike work harder than he should have and thus skewered his numbers. Had the team made any effort to play some defence and help Richter out at all, he wouldn't have looked so ordinary.
     
  20. pld459666

    pld459666 Registered User

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    Happens quite often when goalies specifically get moved from one team to make room for the new kid on the block (in this case Vokoun pushing Dunham out of the Music City)

    The following year, Mike Dunham had what any other goalie would have had on that Rangers team and that was a losing record, with very very ugly numbers.

    No doubt Cujo had a longer career with better numbers, but his highs were never as high as Richters and his lows were just as low as Richters.
     
  21. MS

    MS 1%er

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    What I saw was a guy who simply wasn't very good anymore. Made hard saves look difficult, was flailing out of position a lot relative to the newer generation of larger butterfly goalies.

    Didn't really put up numbers better than a very bad set of backups (especially a completely washed-up Kirk McLean). And again, the fact that an average goalie Dunham walked onto the *exact same team* and put up a .920 save % and 2.30 GAA when Richter had been floating around .905 and 2.90 for several years is very telling.

    If that team was as crap defensively as it was made out to be, Mike Dunham wouldn't have looked like a star behind it. I know he fell off the next season, but the point holds.

    Almost every time I saw Richter play during that period, I was left with a negative impression and was baffled by Ranger fans saying he was still excellent. IMO what he had done previously clouded the objectivity of Ranger fans when looking at his performances. Which I think happens relatively often - would say the same thing about Olaf Kolzig his last 4 years, and Ranford as mentioned previously.
     
  22. Breakfast of Champs

    Breakfast of Champs Registered User

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    I voted cujo because as a kid in the early 2000s cujo was considered one of the best goalies in the league and richter was just an average goalie at this point.
     
  23. jkrx

    jkrx Registered User

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    Apart from when he played for the "Oilers" and a short tournament, Richter doesnt have any real highs. In fact after world cup he posted a pretty mediocre season and an just about average performance in the playoffs.

    In fact when he had his best season I would say that "Beezer" were better.
     
  24. TheMoreYouKnow

    TheMoreYouKnow Registered User

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    Well I'd take the Beezer over Richter, too.
     
  25. blogofmike

    blogofmike Registered User

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    Richter looked great against New Jersey (4 goals in 5 games), but was downright awful against the more high-powered Philly offense.

    Richter was a good goalie on some very good teams, but would often underperform, and tailed off later in his career (2002 Olympics excepted).

    CuJo was the giant killer, who seemed to take middling teams one round further than they otherwise would have gone, (vs the 93 Hawks, 97 Stars, 98 Avs,) or was on a good team that just didn't score against whoever eliminated them (2002 Leafs, 2004 Wings).

    I vote CuJo.
     

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