Crosby Vs. Ovechkin Round 1

[EroCaps]

I would have to disagree completely with this. Crosby's character is no where near as flaky as Ovechikin's and he would not have deserted his team no matter how tough the going got. Everything including his past record indicates that Ovechkin is a classic bully a la Mike Tyson who thinks that he can get anything he wants. When he gets what he wants, he's as cocky as !@#$ but once he can't get his way, he bails and become erratic and unpredictable.

While, Crosby has shown nothing but maturity even at a younger age.

I think this tournament showed that Ovechkin is probably further along than Crosby is at this point. However, Crosby is almost two years younger so that is hardly a surprise.

The true surprise is for those who were expecting either of these two to be a young Wayne Gretzky. Wayne at age 16 led the tournament in scoring with 17pts playing on a very, very bad team. Now, I hope that Wayne Gretzky comparisons would finally stop.

Ovechkin has a serious shoulder injury that probably requires surgery.

 

[Marshall]

While, Crosby has shown nothing but maturity even at a younger age.

Don Cherry disagrees with you.

 

[David]

Ovechkin has a serious shoulder injury that probably requires surgery.

I'll believe that when it happens...but it still doesn't change the fact that while many champions like Kevin Lowe, Captain Kirk Muller, Saku Koivu, Dave Ellet, Brian Bellows, Stevie Yzerman, etc, etc, etc, have had much more severe injuries, they fought hard and valiently while this man/child deserted his teammates.

Nothing changes.

 

[octopi]

I don't think theres really a comparison to be made. Both had overall very good tournaments. Crosby was obviously on the more skilled team. You cannot compare based on that one game, because among other things,Ovechkin was being targeted a lot more than Crosby. Not to mention, its ONE game.

 

[EroCaps]

I'll believe that when it happens...but it still doesn't change the fact that while many champions like Kevin Lowe, Captain Kirk Muller, Saku Koivu, Dave Ellet, Brian Bellows, Stevie Yzerman, etc, etc, etc, have had much more severe injuries, they fought hard and valiently while this man/child deserted his teammates.

Nothing changes.

You're a hater, pure and simple.

They were adults playing for SC championships, not junior players w/a career on mind.

I'm sure Ovechkin would much rather compete at a high level in the NHL and win the Cup, rather than risk his career by playing w/a serious injury at the age of 19.

The WJC is a feather in the cap.

 

[David]

You're a hater, pure and simple.

They were adults playing for SC championships, not junior players w/a career on mind.

I'm sure Ovechkin would much rather compete at a high level in the NHL and win the Cup, rather than risk his career by playing w/a serious injury at the age of 19.

The WJC is a feather in the cap.

Actually, I've been told that I'm a lover and a pretty good one at that! ...but we digress...

Actually #2, they were adults but guess what? So is Ovechkin...in age at least! ...and they were not all playing for Stanley Cup championships. Just one example: Davy Ellet played on a broken foot during a regular seaon game.

Get a grip. Recognize Ovechkin for what he is.

 

[EroCaps]

Actually, I've been told that I'm a lover and a pretty good one at that! ...but we digress...

Actually #2, they were adults but guess what? So is Ovechkin...in age at least! ...and they were not all playing for Stanley Cup championships. Just one example: Davy Ellet played on a broken foot during a regular seaon game.

Get a grip. Recognize Ovechkin for what he is.

Some injuries can compound themselves. Who cares about Dave Ellet? Care to list any of the dozens of Canadian players who you consider leaders/legends who have not played w/serious-to-mild injuries? Who you have likely not criticized and considered their decisions practical and for the greater good, i.e Stanley Cup.

 

[Sampe]

My modest observations:

- Ovechkin has more skill with the puck

- Crosby is smarter with and without the puck

- Ovechkin is the better player right now

- Crosby is a bit further along in development, but in terms of upside there's hardly any difference at all

- Neither of them are of the Orr/Gretzky/Lemieux caliber

But, eventually, there has to be a prospect who belongs to the same group as the three above. It took less than 13 years after Orr and less than 5 years after Gretzky. Now it's taken over two decades after Lemieux (with all due respect to Lindros). I'm waiting...

 

[Chimaera]

Yeah... comparing them both at 17, Crosby is way ahead of Ovechkin.



And apparantly I said at some point Ovechkin was terrible 2 years ago??? And you want to call me ignorant? Hey kettle... you're black. That whole statement you just made oozed ignorance.

A). The RSL is not the most physical league in the world either.

B). The Q sked is almost twice as long, with much worse travel conditions.

C). Just because Crosby apparantly doesn't have to deal with the defensive side of the game (talk about ignorance... yeesh), doesn't mean he doesn't deal with it... he does.



Get over what? Neither player will ever play for the team I cheer for... what do I have to get over?



Funny you should talk about ignorance...

Ignorance is the simple concept of being wrong because you don't know any better. Maybe you know better but are still wrong in this case. In that case, you'd be falling into a different category, which is just plain stupid. I suggested that you might be ignorant of the stats of the two players at the same age. Obviously you aren't, and might just be biased.

You said "Ovy is almost 2 full years older than Crosby as well, and Crosby at 17 is incredibly far ahead of Ovechkin at 17." You go onto restate that Crosby is 'way ahead'. Where's your backup for that? What stats? What opinions? What parts of his game are way beyond anything Ovechkin was able to do?

Incredibly far ahead of Ovechkin at 17, so, what's that to you? 2 assists? That's the point spread.

If 2 assists makes a player 'incredibly' better, then there certainly are a lot of 'incredible' players out there.

The argument could be made that if anything, the linemates Crosby was blessed with helped him earn those 2 extra assists.


I'm not even suggesting that Crosby wasn't better, he might have been, but to say that he's incredibly (here's a defintion for you, if you want to run from that one- So implausible as to elicit disbelief - Dictionary.com) better than Ovechkin at the same age is short sighted. I never said you said Ovechkin is horrible, but Crosby must be other wordly to be 'incredibly' better than Ovechkin. Crosby must be Jesus of hockey. Because at the age, Ovechkin put up some pretty solid numbers for a player of his age.

A. Yes, the RSL is not the most physical league in the world, but it is against men, and is 'arguably' more physical then the Q. Where Crosby plays against boys.

B. The Q's schedule does have more games, but the RSL's season is still significantly long, just filled with more practice and off days. And the debate about travel conditions is silly. Although the players in the Q might be going by Train, Bus, or car, and the RSL might use planes, the time zone changes and travel conditions make that a pretty baseless argument. While Crosby might be riding in a Greyhound, he won't even have to adjust his watch.

C. Crosby isn't a solid defensive forward. That's fact. The point was being made towards the comparison that in the Q, he doesn't have to worry about playing on the defensive side of the game. The Q is an offensive league. Where scoring is more important. It's isn't his fault that the RSL places more emphasis on the defensive side of the game.


And lastly, the 'get over it' isn't laced towards any suggestion that either player could be on a team you'd root for. It is more towards the continual suggestion that Crosby is so much better than anything that could come from Europe, the US, or anywhere else. It's this elitist idea that is ignorant and appaling. Some of the Crosby backers need to get over themselves and the sole idea that a Russian player couldn't be as good, or similarly talented as compared to their homegrown heroes.

 

[ZombieMatt]

Minor note, Crosby does travel one time zone ahead, so he does, insignificantly, have to adjust his watch.

 

[pei fan]

The true surprise is for those who were expecting either of these two to be a young Wayne Gretzky. Wayne at age 16 led the tournament in scoring with 17pts playing on a very, very bad team. Now, I hope that Wayne Gretzky comparisons would finally stop.

But Wayne was given the role to free wheel it offencively and was given tons of
icetime.Crosby was asked to play wing and to play a certain style which he did
very effectively.He was given 6 mins. of icetime per game last year and less than 13mins. per game this year.

There are two guys who think Sidney may be as good as Gretzky and Lemieux.
They are Wayne Gretzky and Mario Lemieux,but hell what do they know.

 

[Ric Flair]

I'd rather have Ovechkin.

 

[Chimaera]

Minor note, Crosby does travel one time zone ahead, so he does, insignificantly, have to adjust his watch.

Hmm, I guess what? New Foundland's ahead? Or the rest are EST?

Not being a Canuck I am not sure of the complete geographical time zones.

But I'm certain he crosses less than a Russian might traversing the country.

 

[Crosbyfan]

Hmm, I guess what? New Foundland's ahead? Or the rest are EST?

Not being a Canuck I am not sure of the complete geographical time zones.

But I'm certain he crosses less than a Russian might traversing the country.

When Newfoundland (NO team in the Q yet, but will be next year) brought in the new year it was 11:30 in Atlantic and 10:30 EST (Quebec).

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

There is so much crap on this thread, it is actually quite pathetic how people will stretch things to fit their version of reality.

Here's a dose of common sense for you:

1-No, Crosby is not further along than Ovechkin at the same age. Few players ever will be, as it is quite simply Ovechkin's calling card. He was the very definition of a proven early bloomer.

2-Crosby does have slightly more upside than Ovechkin, IMO. Lots of tools to work with and I am highly partial to hockey sense, which Crosby has in spades. He still isn't further along than Ovechkin, though.

3-Ovechkin didn't quit on his team. He faced magnificient, mature, very physical, focused and well-coached opposition. I've seen Bergeron hit NHLers quite well. Phaneuf already hits better than most NHLers ever will. There were lots of other big players. It's a testament to how highly they thought of him that he often had two defending players in front of him and a third one just behind. They cut him down to pieces hit after hit, play after play. He's certainly not the first player to quit a game. Grown NHLers with a lot of guts have done so too. Only we're on HF and there's always a mouth breather who needs to provide his not-worth-**** "opinion" and overly criticize.

4-The person who said he would select Malkin over Ovechkin on this thread needs a reality check. Lots of tools but very raw. Ovechkin has the body and poise of a man. Not only is he a more proven player right now, he does have more tools to work with than Malkin, is more explosive physically, offensively and speed-wise. His play with the puck, his skating, his athleticism and strength are at the level, control and power of a NHL star in his prime. Unfortunately, the mind is not there yet. Still, Malkin doesn't have more upside than that and carries more risk.

5-Dawgbone and David are spewing Pejorative Slured crap on this thread.

6-Next year, the same waste of jockstraps who posts here, or the next generation of said wastes, will be criticizing Crosby more and more, and pimping other young 17, 16 and maybe 14 years old to embarass themselves yet again. Each and every year, it's the same old song. People started bashing Kovalchuk at those WJCs, saying he wouldn't last a week in the NHL. He's been taunting guys, embarassing the Oilers, scoring goals like crazy and rising on the offense charts faster than a Boys Band record. And at that time we heard all the rage on how there was this new young phenom named Ovechkin, who was much, much, much better than Kovalchuk and way, way, way more mature and classy. Don't you people ever learn, or do you actually like being stupid and jumping up and down bandwagons?

There. Those are the facts, for all to see. That's what the deal is. The sad thing about HF is that everything about the legend of Dustin Rose is a complete fabrication but somehow, highly representative of the imbecility that is constantly shown here, year after year. Now you may resume and continue pulling stupid stats and use all sorts of weak arguments to pimp whichever of the two you prefer.

 

[Epsilon]

The sad thing about HF is that everything about the legend of Dustin Rose is a complete fabrication but somehow, highly representative of the imbecility that is constantly shown here, year after year.

pwned

 

[markov`]

There is so much crap on this thread, it is actually quite pathetic how people will stretch things to fit their version of reality.

Here's a dose of common sense for you:

1-No, Crosby is not further along than Ovechkin at the same age. Few players ever will be, as it is quite simply Ovechkin's calling card. He was the very definition of a proven early bloomer.

2-Crosby does have slightly more upside than Ovechkin, IMO. Lots of tools to work with and I am highly partial to hockey sense, which Crosby has in spades. He still isn't further along than Ovechkin, though.

3-Ovechkin didn't quit on his team. He faced magnificient, mature, very physical, focused and well-coached opposition. I've seen Bergeron hit NHLers quite well. Phaneuf already hits better than most NHLers ever will. There were lots of other big players. It's a testament to how highly they thought of him that he often had two defending players in front of him and a third one just behind. They cut him down to pieces hit after hit, play after play. He's certainly not the first player to quit a game. Grown NHLers with a lot of guts have done so too. Only we're on HF and there's always a mouth breather who needs to provide his not-worth-**** "opinion" and overly criticize.

4-The person who said he would select Malkin over Ovechkin on this thread needs a reality check. Lots of tools but very raw. Ovechkin has the body and poise of a man. Not only is he a more proven player right now, he does have more tools to work with than Malkin, is more explosive physically, offensively and speed-wise. His play with the puck, his skating, his athleticism and strength are at the level, control and power of a NHL star in his prime. Unfortunately, the mind is not there yet. Still, Malkin doesn't have more upside than that and carries more risk.

5-Dawgbone and David are spewing Pejorative Slured crap on this thread.

6-Next year, the same waste of jockstraps who posts here, or the next generation of said wastes, will be criticizing Crosby more and more, and pimping other young 17, 16 and maybe 14 years old to embarass themselves yet again. Each and every year, it's the same old song. People started bashing Kovalchuk at those WJCs, saying he wouldn't last a week in the NHL. He's been taunting guys, embarassing the Oilers, scoring goals like crazy and rising on the offense charts faster than a Boys Band record. And at that time we heard all the rage on how there was this new young phenom named Ovechkin, who was much, much, much better than Kovalchuk and way, way, way more mature and classy. Don't you people ever learn, or do you actually like being stupid and jumping up and down bandwagons?

There. Those are the facts, for all to see. That's what the deal is. The sad thing about HF is that everything about the legend of Dustin Rose is a complete fabrication but somehow, highly representative of the imbecility that is constantly shown here, year after year. Now you may resume and continue pulling stupid stats and use all sorts of weak arguments to pimp whichever of the two you prefer.

Agree on all the points.

 

[HabLover]

Ovechkin has a serious shoulder injury that probably requires surgery.

There is no serious shoulder injury and there is no surgery required!

The fact is, Ovechkin folded in the gold medal game when the going got tough! BOTTOM LINE!

Things did not go his way and there was no where in the game when he hurt his shoulder as bad as he played it out. Team Canada showed the other night what you need to do to stop Ovechkin and I think we all know what that is now! For all this talk of Ovechkin playing in the RSL against men and how superior it is to our junior leagues, I think we all know now that is a bit of bs!

The fact is you can compare Ovechkin to Crosbly all you want and Crosby probably was better at the same stage, but maybe we should be comparing 19 yr olds and Carter and Bergeron were both better than Ovechkin in this tourney and maybe those guys are closing the gap?

 

[Epsilon]

There is no serious shoulder injury and there is no surgery required!

The fact is, Ovechkin folded in the gold medal game when the going got tough! BOTTOM LINE!

Things did not go his way and there was no where in the game when he hurt his shoulder as bad as he played it out. Team Canada showed the other night what you need to do to stop Ovechkin and I think we all know what that is now! For all this talk of Ovechkin playing in the RSL against men and how superior it is to our junior leagues, I think we all know now that is a bit of bs!

Okay, let's see a CHL team go up against Ak Bars Kazan. I don't think you would be happy with the result.

 

[octopi]

There is no serious shoulder injury and there is no surgery required!

The fact is, Ovechkin folded in the gold medal game when the going got tough! BOTTOM LINE!

Ummm, usually you need to have some strength in both your arms to play hockey. Has it occured to you he wouldn't have been of any use after the injury because he could not shoot the puck with any amount of force?

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

For all this talk of Ovechkin playing in the RSL against men and how superior it is to our junior leagues, I think we all know now that is a bit of bs!

If you mean superior as in "superior". Well, yes, the RSL is a higher level of hockey than juniors, most definitly. It doesn't mean it is the be-all, end-all as far as player development, though.

No league is superior to another when it comes to developing future NHLers. They all have advantages and drawbacks.

 

[HabLover]

Okay, let's see a CHL team go up against Ak Bars Kazan. I don't think you would be happy with the result.

That's not what I'm saying moron! I'm sure anyteam in that league would have it's way with all of the junior teams in Canada. Ovechkin was pumped up on these boards cuz he was playing in the Russian Super League and scoring a bit, knocking out NHL players with big hits, etc. Well, he was the one knocked out of this tourney with a phantom hit, while he did score some, he folded on his team!! The entire Canadian team could play in the RSL and do well for themselves individually. So does that make them any better than guys playing US College or junior back in Canada? Ummm......noooooooooooooooooo!

 

[Epsilon]

That's not what I'm saying moron! I'm sure anyteam in that league would have it's way with all of the junior teams in Canada. Ovechkin was pumped up on these boards cuz he was playing in the Russian Super League and scoring a bit, knocking out NHL players with big hits, etc. Well, he was the one knocked out of this tourney with a phantom hit, while he did score some, he folded on his team!! The entire Canadian team could play in the RSL and do well for themselves individually. So does that make them any better than guys playing US College or junior back in Canada? Ummm......noooooooooooooooooo!

I HIGHLY doubt that. The top guys could probably make it, but players like Colin Fraser and Jeff Glass would never crack an RSL roster.

 

[THE NEXT ONE #87]

There are two guys who think Sidney may be as good as Gretzky and Lemieux.
They are Wayne Gretzky and Mario Lemieux,but hell what do they know.

Is it true? If it is. I´ll believe it coz wayne and mario have a special eye in such things.

 

[THE NEXT ONE #87]

That's not what I'm saying moron! I'm sure anyteam in that league would have it's way with all of the junior teams in Canada. Ovechkin was pumped up on these boards cuz he was playing in the Russian Super League and scoring a bit, knocking out NHL players with big hits, etc. Well, he was the one knocked out of this tourney with a phantom hit, while he did score some, he folded on his team!! The entire Canadian team could play in the RSL and do well for themselves individually. So does that make them any better than guys playing US College or junior back in Canada? Ummm......noooooooooooooooooo!