Crosby vs Kucherov: whos IQ is better?

[Mrb1p]

On season per season basis he is. He just did it more often than most. Peak wise, not all that special.

It's not like we are comparing him with some nobody here, Kucherov is a 2 time Art Ross winner in a league with McDavid in it and a top tier playoff producer in addition to that. To say there is nothing he does better or even close to as good as Crosby is delusional.

What does he do better than Sid?

 

[Gurglesons]

Crosby without a doubt.

Kucherov has had a better NHL career than Malkin though.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Well Datsyuk hasn't played in the last 8 years so I'd hope so

Alright, you want to quibble that it was 9 years ago and not 8 years ago that the hockey media was willing to pretend Crosby was better at defense than Datsyuk?

 

[Machinehead]

Crosby is the better skater, stickhandler, has the better shot, has more power, better puck protection ability, etc.

All of Crosby's tools are better than Kucherov's so if Kucherov's IQ is not better, how is he so good?

He is good. He's just not as good as Crosby.

We never saw prime Crosby play in a league where nine guys had 100 points. Not to mention the injuries.

When Crosby got hurt in 2011, he was on pace for 132 points mid-DPE. 77 points was top-10 in scoring that year. I think like 30 teams had a guy with 77 points this year.

McDavid will end up having a better career and at the end of the day, the injuries happened and are part of the resume, but I think Crosby peaked better. We never really got to see it.

 

[psycat]

What does he do better than Sid?

Well, in line with the thread, id argue he got better hockey iq for one.

 

[Mrb1p]

Well, in line with the thread, id argue he got better hockey iq for one.

Thats crazy lol. Crosby probably has a top 3 IQ of all time. You just argued his single best asset.
A few questions:
Why isn't Kucherov better defensively then ?
Why can't he outproduce Crosby while being in an easier scoring environment and while having more support ?
Why was Crosby able to outproduce better players than Kucherov in Ovi and Malkin ?

 

[psycat]

Thats crazy lol. Crosby probably has a top 3 IQ of all time. You just argued his single best asset.
A few questions:
Why isn't Kucherov better defensively then ?
Why can't he outproduce Crosby while being in an easier scoring environment and while having more support ?
Why was Crosby able to outproduce better players than Kucherov in Ovi and Malkin ?

I simply don't agree, no way he is anywhere near the absolute top in that department for me. In the end it's all semantics but don't see how you can argue him to be above any of the big 4 and then you have players like Bourque, Lidström etc who relied mostly on being in the right place at the right time.

To me Crosby is "generationally concistent" but his peak play is not all that special and there are like 2-3 players active at any given point in history that's able to match it(Ovi+Malkin from his own era somewhat proves this), contrast with McDavid who is a clear step above offensively atleast.

Why Kucherov is not "as good" defensively? If we take that as being true, I am not so sure I do, it could be due to the fact that Crosby is undoubtly more of a hustle type player that, atleast visibly, puts in more effort every shift and seems almost inhuman when it comes to keeping focus and put in the work.

Now Kucherov? He did infact outproduce McDavid not once but twice(and I would say it's more or less a fact that McDavid is on another level from Crosby in terms of producing points), he got the better raw totals in a season etc. If it's not due to hockey iq, then what is it? Of course era is part of it, in reality their peak seasons are somewhat close. Is he in your mind simply a more skilled player or what's the reason for him putting up, atleast, similiar caliber of numbers while having inferior hockey iq? Maybe Kucherov works harder? I would dispute that.

 

[authentic]

I simply don't agree, no way he is anywhere near the absolute top in that department for me. In the end it's all semantics but don't see how you can argue him to be above any of the big 4 and then you have players like Bourque, Lidström etc who relied mostly on being in the right place at the right time.

To me Crosby is "generationally concistent" but his peak play is not all that special and there are like 2-3 players active at any given point in history that's able to match it(Ovi+Malkin from his own era somewhat proves this), contrast with McDavid who is a clear step above offensively atleast.

Why Kucherov is not "as good" defensively? If we take that as being true, I am not so sure I do, it could be due to the fact that Crosby is undoubtly more of a hustle type player that, atleast visibly, puts in more effort every shift and seems almost inhuman when it comes to keeping focus and put in the work.

Now Kucherov? He did infact outproduce McDavid not once but twice(and I would say it's more or less a fact that McDavid is on another level from Crosby in terms of producing points), he got the better raw totals in a season etc. If it's not due to hockey iq, then what is it? Of course era is part of it, in reality their peak seasons are somewhat close. Is he in your mind simply a more skilled player or what's the reason for him putting up, atleast, similiar caliber of numbers while having inferior hockey iq? Maybe Kucherov works harder? I would dispute that.

Lol his peak play was pretty special it was just cut way too short by injuries. 160 points in 99 straight games in his age 23-25 seasons when 60 points was good for 20th in the league and no more than a few 90 points scorers a season.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

I simply don't agree, no way he is anywhere near the absolute top in that department for me. In the end it's all semantics but don't see how you can argue him to be above any of the big 4 and then you have players like Bourque, Lidström etc who relied mostly on being in the right place at the right time.

To me Crosby is "generationally concistent" but his peak play is not all that special and there are like 2-3 players active at any given point in history that's able to match it(Ovi+Malkin from his own era somewhat proves this), contrast with McDavid who is a clear step above offensively atleast.

Why Kucherov is not "as good" defensively? If we take that as being true, I am not so sure I do, it could be due to the fact that Crosby is undoubtly more of a hustle type player that, atleast visibly, puts in more effort every shift and seems almost inhuman when it comes to keeping focus and put in the work.

Now Kucherov? He did infact outproduce McDavid not once but twice(and I would say it's more or less a fact that McDavid is on another level from Crosby in terms of producing points), he got the better raw totals in a season etc. If it's not due to hockey iq, then what is it? Of course era is part of it, in reality their peak seasons are somewhat close. Is he in your mind simply a more skilled player or what's the reason for him putting up, atleast, similiar caliber of numbers while having inferior hockey iq? Maybe Kucherov works harder? I would dispute that.

Hockey IQ exists, whether you have the capability to recognize it or not. It's not semantics.

 

[Cup or Bust]

It's hard to say how good a prime Sidney Crosby might be in a 2022-2024 NHL environment. In 2011 when Crosby was on pace for 60 goals and 130 points, the best offensive team in the NHL scored 258 goals. That would be 16th in the league in 2024. It's so hard to compare players playing in different scoring environments.

 

[psycat]

Hockey IQ exists, whether you have the capability to recognize it or not. It's not semantics.

Lazy response to a long post, you can do better. Anyway as I already said they produce around the same in their best seasons and Crosby(atleast to me) visibly is more engaged and puts in more effort so that would, again to me, suggest that Kucherov is better at picking his moments. Call it what you wan't, maybe one could argue he is less smart but more skilled but I wouldn't agree with that.

 

[blundluntman]

Thats crazy lol. Crosby probably has a top 3 IQ of all time. You just argued his single best asset.
A few questions:
Why isn't Kucherov better defensively then ?
Why can't he outproduce Crosby while being in an easier scoring environment and while having more support ?
Why was Crosby able to outproduce better players than Kucherov in Ovi and Malkin ?

1. So does Crosby also have a higher hockey IQ than Gretzky because was better defensively? You can have very high hockey IQ and invest it more into the offensive side of play rather than a 200 ft game.

2. He has outproduced him (if you wanna go based of raw numbers)? Even adjusting for era, his peak seasons are definitely up there with Crosby's. His 128 pt art ross and his art ross this season are at the very least comparable to Crosby's 2014/13 seasons. Maybe the 2011 season would've peaked higher but he was injured halfway through so who knows where he finishes?

3. Were the years of Ovi/Malkin where he outproduced them equal to the years of McDavid/Mackinnon where Kucherov outproduced them? In Ovi's peak years, he was outscoring Crosby. Malkin beat Crosby in a scoring race in 2009. Kucherov's art ross seasons had better peak competition than Crosby's art ross seasons, and Crosby never beat out a peak Ovi/Malkin in a scoring race. The competition argument is a wash at best.

Kucherov very clearly has extremely high hockey IQ and you could probably argue they're at least comparable in that department (I may lean toward Crosby but it's not a no-brainer). I don't get why people have to act so offended and bewildered when someone tries to argue a player is comparable to Crosby in a certain facet of the game (this happened in the Crosby vs Thornton playmaking thread also).

Maybe we could try using the eye test and breaking down their skillsets on the ice? Every single Crosby discussion doesn't have to boil down to a battle of narratives where you just try to discount other players' accomplishments.

 

[Sypher04]

I do not like Kucherov, at all, but I find it weird how half the people in this thread are downplaying his individual skill level/tools. Thats ridiculous imo.

 

[abax44]

In fact Ovechkin has never been on the ice for that many goals against in a season in his entire career.

He's never been in the conversation for highest IQ, either.

 

[Old Gregg]

Who were Kucherov's linemates when he won the Art Ross vs Crosby?

 

[The Great Mighty Poo]

You could make about 300 highlight packages of the stuff Sid does on the ice at a game by game basis that doesnt result in goals.