Discussion in 'Polls - (hockey-related only)' started by Ageless, Oct 2, 2018.
Who do you rank higher all time?
Bourque is top 20. Crosby is top 10.
Missing the vote options, but this is Crosby by a pretty significant margin.
Crosby was the best player in the game for a decade.
Simon Bourque just got sent to the ECHL today. This is Crosby AINEC
Bourque has a pretty strong case for being the second best player of the 80s after Gretzky
Bourque is as high as the 2nd best D of all time, and he played 10 mins more a game than Crosby. And I don’t see Crosby still being near the top of his position at 40.
But the answer here is clearly Crosby. Outside of a couple arguable seasons, Bourque was never the best player in the game like Crosby was for a decade. Even if you control for Gretzky, it’s not like Ray was the clear #2 for a generation, either.
Bourque was a hell of a player, but Crosby is Crosby.
We also have the best all time players poll running here and there's a bunch players between them according to HF.
Crosby was the best player in 2007 and again in 2014, and not in between, or after - which is why he has only 2 MVPs.
I still voted for Crosby in the poll though.
I'd say he was the best from 2011-2014. Ovechkin was clearly better from 2007-2010 (at least during the RS). I'd say he was just better period, at least in '08 and '09.
The poll with the 4 after the big 4 all being modern guys needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Trust the polls on the HoH board more...
How could Ovechkin not have been better period in 2010? He matched Crosby's points in 9 fewer games with 1 less goal, was +45, and beat Crosby in Hart and Pearson voting. In the playoffs he had 10 points and was +5 in 7 games. Ovechkin was an absolute monster at that time. He actually achieved the productivity that people extrapolate for Crosby based on his half and quarter seasons. Unlike Crosby, Ovechkin did it in consecutive games and consecutive seasons without rest, including playoffs.
I also don't see why Crosby deserves full credit for half and quarter seasons. Regardless, no way was Crosby better than Malkin in 2012. Malkin's 2012 season is better than any season Crosby has ever had, by a clear margin. To just imagine that Crosby could have been even better is massively unfair to Malkin.
And Ovechkin won the Hart in '13 with more than twice as many goals as Crosby so I don't see why lumping in '13 is equitable either. If this were just an extension of sustained consistent dominance, then maybe, but at that point Crosby had not been the actual best player for 6 years. So you wouldn't be extending it, you'd have to be claiming Crosby's half and quarter seasons firmly established him as the best player - which is pretty absurd.
You just seem to be lumping in a bunch of seasons, but it isn't warranted. I just don't get the need for extrapolations and speculations for things that already happened. Recently someone on HF complained that the phrase "actual results" biased a poll against Crosby in Ovechkin's favor - as if this was unfair. /facepalm
Here, let's put it another way:
Who was better by season - according to Hart voting:
07 Crosby (MVP)
08 Ovechkin (MVP)
09 Ovechkin (MVP)
11 Ovechkin (Crosby played half season)
12 both not ranked (Crosby played a quarter season)
13 Ovechkin (MVP)
14 Crosby (MVP)
How anyone could come to the conclusion that Crosby was the best player during a 6 year stretch where Ovechkin won 3 Harts and Crosby won none is beyond me.
06-07 best player
07-08 top 3 player
08-09 top 3 player
09-10 top 3 player
10-11 best player (before injury)
12-13 best player
13-14 best player
14-15 top 5 player
15-16 top 2 player
16-17 top 2 player
Very obviously too.
Separate names with a comma.