Crosby releases statement regarding George Floyd's death

[Jacob]

Seems peculiar that the mob would announce the date/time that they plan on tearing down the Emancipation statue unless they're a fed or just looking for a confrontation (but not to actually tear down the statue).

 

[heysmilinstrange]

This is listed on their website as one of their beliefs:


Not sure what that has to do with black lives mattering.

If you quote the entire sentence, as well as the sentences that precede and follow it, it's pretty easy to see how the excerpt fits into BLM's stated mission and beliefs.

 

[Jacob]

A statue of a fictional person and a famous abolitionist. Help me understand.

Protesters pull down Forward statue, Col. Hans Christian Heg statue outside State Capitol

 

[Jaded-Fan]

A statue of a fictional person and a famous abolitionist. Help me understand.

Protesters pull down Forward statue, Col. Hans Christian Heg statue outside State Capitol

Watch this. Sound familiar?



Once you start burning books it quickly gets out of hand. Huckleberry Finn, James Joyce Ulysses, To Kill a Mockingbird, famous Union Poet Walt Whitman, Catcher in the Rye, Grapes of Wrath, Catch-22, and on and on. All banned in the US.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

I did, what am I missing?

I draw the line on slavery, genocide, etc. Cheating on a spouse is a personal issue that has no bearing on our lives, so why did you use that example?

"A personal issue that has no bearing on our lives"? I think what you meant to say was "I don't feel we should have statutes of people with a checkered past".

Personally I don't equate slavery to genocide. Because owning slaves was common back then and no one looked at you funny. And just like in any human there were good slave owners and there were horrible ones.

As we sit in 2020, history may not be kind to all of us and it could be said most people were supporting the slave institution by buying consumer goods: most electronics, tennis shoes, clothes, all made by people in slave like conditions in 3rd world countries. Do you want people to say "NeedleintheHay" was a proponent of slavery because you typed this from your phone/computer that has significant components manufactured in horrid conditions? There's appropriate nuance to be analyzed before we vilify people quickly.

Historical context is extremely important. Like it's the single most important factor in all of this.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

And before someone comes in offended with my equating Nazi book burning with protests for racial justice, as one who lost fairly close relatives in the holocaust I know the differences between Nazis and Civil Rights.

The point is that when you ban books, destroy statues, destroy history, walk all over freedom of speech, even speech that offends me, ESPECIALLY speech that offends me, you start down the path that leads to genocide.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. History must be protected. Freedom of Speech and debating even evil terrible ideas must be protected. It is the cornerstone of what made this country what it is.

 

[SouthGeorge]

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

And before someone comes in offended with my equating Nazi book burning with protests for racial justice, as one who lost fairly close relatives in the holocaust I know the differences between Nazis and Civil Rights.

The point is that when you ban books, destroy statues, destroy history, walk all over freedom of speech, even speech that offends me, ESPECIALLY speech that offends me, you start down the path that leads to genocide.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. History must be protected. Freedom of Speech and debating even evil terrible ideas must be protected. It is the cornerstone of what made this country what it is.

I have yet to meet a Jewish person that would be ok with erecting a statue of Adolf Hitler. I doubt arguing about history and how Hitler actually did good things (Super highway, animal rights, Volkswagen, proactive labor laws, Nazi regime had one of the most comprehensive cancer prevention programs of the century) would be convincing enough.

Try telling indigenous Americans why it’s ok to keep up a Christopher Columbus statue... because history?

It’s slap in their face and it’s explained away with BS reasoning like this garbage from the NAIF:

we believe that to vandalize and remove the Columbus statues is culturally insensitive and divisive. These statues were paid for through the donations from Italian immigrants in the 19th and 20th centuries. Although these new Americans had little in the way of monetary resources and were part of a marginalized community, discriminated against and exploited for their labor, they wanted to give what they could to have a statue of Columbus, representing their hope that one day they could be part of American life, achieve at higher levels and contribute to society.”

Pure stupidity.

 

[ColePens]

I love Lupe and his music. He goes against the grain, that is for sure. The only thing i'd caution him is that sure there is a bigger problem, but also there is a problem with what he is sort of saying isn't the biggest issue. I know that sounds confusing but I think allllll parts needs to be discussed.

However the thing that has been said over and over - we need to have these conversations and we need to LISTEN. That needs to happen from each side. So Lupe's take might be unique but that side needs listened to as well. He grew up in Chicago. That needs to be part of the discussion, too.

 

[SouthGeorge]

I love Lupe and his music. He goes against the grain, that is for sure. The only thing i'd caution him is that sure there is a bigger problem, but also there is a problem with what he is sort of saying isn't the biggest issue. I know that sounds confusing but I think allllll parts needs to be discussed.

However the thing that has been said over and over - we need to have these conversations and we need to LISTEN. That needs to happen from each side. So Lupe's take might be unique but that side needs listened to as well. He grew up in Chicago. That needs to be part of the discussion, too.

Trust me, I think Lupe gets it. He grew up African American in Chicago. He's more educated on the subject then 99% of these entertainers. He's blackballed from the music industry because he raps about real stuff. If anybody needs a history lesson listen to Drogas Wave. What am I suppose to listen to mumble rappers or dumb jocks because they regurgitate what the beehive on social media is saying? Mind you these are the same people that rap about killing and drugs. The big issue at hand Lupe is talking about. Also, most fans make fun of those mumble rappers for being stupid or making simple music but if they repeat what they hear on social media they get props. That's who people are going to get information from? I more inclined to listen to Lupe than 99% of these entertainers. Lupe was rapping about things years ago, people are finally just learning about.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

So the noose found in Bubba Wallace's garage ends up being a pull handle there since 2019?

And Kimmel's statement is the most weird word twisting I've heard as an apology. Apologies as weakness? What a red herring

Basically "I didn't make a statement because I hoped it would be swept under the rug and forgotten"

*****
Late-night host Jimmy Kimmel issued an apology Tuesday for his "embarrassing" portrayals of Black celebrities.
In his statement, obtained by CNN, Kimmel wrote "I have long been reluctant to address this, as I knew doing so would be celebrated as a victory by those who equate apologies with weakness and cheer for leaders who use prejudice to divide us."

 

[SouthGeorge]

So the noose found in Bubba Wallace's garage ends up being a pull handle there since 2019?

And Kimmel's statement is the most weird word twisting I've heard as an apology. Apologies as weakness? What a red herring

Basically "I didn't make a statement because I hoped it would be swept under the rug and forgotten"

*****
Late-night host Jimmy Kimmel issued an apology Tuesday for his "embarrassing" portrayals of Black celebrities.
In his statement, obtained by CNN, Kimmel wrote "I have long been reluctant to address this, as I knew doing so would be celebrated as a victory by those who equate apologies with weakness and cheer for leaders who use prejudice to divide us."

The Nascar situation is perfect example of why people don't want to run and make public statements without facts because the social media beehive told them to.

The best thing Kimmel ever did was spend the last few years going at you know who. They won't cancel him. It was legit trending yesterday and there was a lot of deflecting to other people and one of the top tweets was along the lines of "Don't focus on cancelling Kimmel, we got bigger issues to focus on" But when a NBA superstar says the same thing about the NBA season he gets slandered by his peers and social media.

 

[Shockmaster]

So the noose found in Bubba Wallace's garage ends up being a pull handle there since 2019?

Really strange that no one in NASCAR didn't realize this until after the FBI finished its investigation. If it wasn't a hoax, then there are some REALLY stupid people there.

And Kimmel's statement is the most weird word twisting I've heard as an apology. Apologies as weakness? What a red herring

Basically "I didn't make a statement because I hoped it would be swept under the rug and forgotten"

*****
Late-night host Jimmy Kimmel issued an apology Tuesday for his "embarrassing" portrayals of Black celebrities.
In his statement, obtained by CNN, Kimmel wrote "I have long been reluctant to address this, as I knew doing so would be celebrated as a victory by those who equate apologies with weakness and cheer for leaders who use prejudice to divide us."

Wonder if he sense it coming and that's why he decided to take the summer off in hopes it all blows over.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I have yet to meet a Jewish person that would be ok with erecting a statue of Adolf Hitler. I doubt arguing about history and how Hitler actually did good things (Super highway, animal rights, Volkswagen, proactive labor laws, Nazi regime had one of the most comprehensive cancer prevention programs of the century) would be convincing enough.

Try telling indigenous Americans why it’s ok to keep up a Christopher Columbus statue... because history?

It’s slap in their face and it’s explained away with BS reasoning like this garbage from the NAIF:



Pure stupidity.

There is much worse than a statue to Hitler standing. Auschwitz is still there, as well as some of the other camps and ovens, and I am happy that it is as a warning to future generations. There are STILL people out there who deny that the Holocaust ever happened. I plan on visiting Auschwitz in the next two years, as well as Hungary where my family came from to honor and remember those who were taken so young.

As for this so-called debate, it is not currently a debate.

It is bullying.

It is Anarchy, violent destructive action without debate.

It is mobs with fire and violence.

It is without any thought, reason or compromise, it is simply mob rage. It is people, not all by any stretch but far too big of a sizable minority in that mob, who think that they are so right that they are justified in any wrong that they do. In those things it has a lot in common with the Nazis and ISIS and terrifies me.

There are legal means to remove statues, but that would take actual debate and thought. I for one am NOT for removing all statues. Some should remain for people to remember, to teach. With displays explaining the 1860's, 1910's and 1960's to give context. Do they all need to remain? No. But do they all need to go? Also no. That would be a tragedy.

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

- George Santayana

Will some morons wearing Nazi garb come by to honor them? Of course, but they will be few and outweighed by the important lessons that makes the past sufferings at least have some redemption today.

 

[Mr. T]

The Nascar situation is perfect example of why people don't want to run and make public statements without facts because the social media beehive told them to.

Yep. Look at the all the cops that pretend to be abused by fast food employees that turn out to be liars.

 

[Shockmaster]

There is much worse than a statue to Hitler standing. Auschwitz is still there, as well as some of the other camps and ovens, and I am happy that it is as a warning to future generations. There are STILL people out there who deny that the Holocaust ever happened. I plan on visiting Auschwitz in the next two years, as well as Hungary where my family came from to honor and remember those who were taken so young.

As for this so-called debate, it is not currently a debate.

It is bullying.

It is Anarchy.

It is mobs with fire and violence.

It is without any thought, reason or compromise, it is simply mob rage. It is people, not all by any stretch but far too big of a sizable minority in that mob, who think that they are so right that they are justified in any wrong that they do. In those things it has a lot in common with the Nazis and ISIS and terrifies me.

There are legal means to remove statues, but that would take actual debate and thought. I for one am NOT for removing all statues. Some should remain for people to remember, to teach. With displays explaining the 1860's, 1910's and 1960's to give context. Do they all need to remain? No. But do they all need to go? Also no. That would be a tragedy.



Will some morons wearing Nazi garb come by to honor them? Of course, but they will be few and outweighed by the important lessons that makes the past sufferings at least have some redemption today.

Not to mention if you dig deep enough, you can find a flaw in just about every historical figure when comparing them to the standards and morals of today. When does it end?

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Not to mention if you dig deep enough, you can find a flaw in just about every historical figure when comparing them to the standards and morals of today. When does it end?

Exactly why you handle this with reasoned debate and not mob violence and mentality.

 

[Peat]

Just because there are riots doesn't mean there isn't also a debate. It mightn't be as loud, but it's happening, and it'll be continuing to happen once the riots have stopped.

And if part of what's happening, name changes and statues not getting put up, is being done partially out of fear, then it's not the only side using fear in this. Doesn't mean it should be condoned, but it certainly should be the part of it that attracts the most attention.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

There is much worse than a statue to Hitler standing. Auschwitz is still there, as well as some of the other camps and ovens, and I am happy that it is as a warning to future generations. There are STILL people out there who deny that the Holocaust ever happened. I plan on visiting Auschwitz in the next two years, as well as Hungary where my family came from to honor and remember those who were taken so young.

As for this so-called debate, it is not currently a debate.

It is bullying.

It is Anarchy, violent destructive action without debate.

It is mobs with fire and violence.

It is without any thought, reason or compromise, it is simply mob rage. It is people, not all by any stretch but far too big of a sizable minority in that mob, who think that they are so right that they are justified in any wrong that they do. In those things it has a lot in common with the Nazis and ISIS and terrifies me.

There are legal means to remove statues, but that would take actual debate and thought. I for one am NOT for removing all statues. Some should remain for people to remember, to teach. With displays explaining the 1860's, 1910's and 1960's to give context. Do they all need to remain? No. But do they all need to go? Also no. That would be a tragedy.



Will some morons wearing Nazi garb come by to honor them? Of course, but they will be few and outweighed by the important lessons that makes the past sufferings at least have some redemption today.

Auschwitz was left as a warning to future generations of the atrocities committed there, not to honor the Nazis.

A statue is meant to honor someone, like a statue of Hitler would be made to honor him like the one erected for Columbus.

Massive difference there.

Is it your opinion the German protesters should not have left up the Berlin Wall because ... history?

How about Saddam? Should protesters in Baghdad have left his statue standing because of history as well?

The CC statue and confederate statues have been protested for decades and these voices were ignored.

It’s ok for these ethnic groups to be bullied for centuries though...

Makes no sense to me Jaded.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Maybe someday we can value people as much as we value statues and flags but I sorta doubt it based on much of what I read.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Auschwitz was left as a warning to future generations of the atrocities committed there, not to honor the Nazis.

A statue is meant to honor someone, like a statue of Hitler would be made to honor him like the one erected for Columbus.

Massive difference there.

Is it your opinion the German protesters should not have left up the Berlin Wall because ... history?

How about Saddam? Should protesters in Baghdad have left his statue standing because of history as well?

The CC statue and confederate statues have been protested for decades and these voices were ignored.

It’s ok for these ethnic groups to be bullied for centuries though...

Makes no sense to me Jaded.

We will agree to disagree.

But we seem to be on the same side, merely disagreeing on what the right procedure should be and about some details around the edges.

Which is pretty much a microcosm of what is wrong with the country and the world today. And what is wrong in this current crises in particular. Most seem to agree about a lot. But find ways to end up in a hateful battle anyways. '"Us" against "Them". They are evil and stupid. When you start with that mindset even the littlest things become chasms which can not be overcome.

It reminds me of this quote by the great Historian Shelby Foote in Ken Burns' The Civil War series.



It is amazing how much that quote matches today. Sad really.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Funny you mention Ken Burns. He has this to say re: monuments:

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

Wonder if he sense it coming and that's why he decided to take the summer off in hopes it all blows over.

Oh he for sure knew it was coming.

What's interesting is that Kevin Hart was ousted over what he said, but Kimmel is still going to host the Oscars?
How Kevin Hart tweeted himself out of a job hosting the Oscars

Oh and more stuff re-surfacing of Kimmel's woke self.
If you don't want to listen to it, he says the N word a lot...yikes

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

Exactly why you handle this with reasoned debate and not mob violence and mentality.

Uh this is the internet. Faster is ALWAYS better than being right

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Once again, there has been decades-worth of efforts to talk this whole thing out.

This seems to be a bit of a common sticking point for some... assuming that the usual channels haven't already been taken and failed.

Does this strike anyone as the era of debate and measured reason? lol

That isn't to say I condone wanton destruction, violence and senseless mob rule and anarchy. Only that the above be acknowledged.