crosby or ovechkin?

[wilka91*]

It takes heart and determination, combined with skill. It is something we have not seen from a Russian thus far.

Yeah right. A guy like Fedorov really sucked in the playoffs, huh? His teammate, Steve Yzerman showed so much more determination in the playoffs!!!

But that theory never explained why Fedorov outscored Yzerman in the playoffs in his 13 years in Detroit by about 30 points though, and it doesn't explain Yzerman minus-something +/-, and Fedorov's +20 something.

On a similar note, Bure didn't singlehandedly carry the Canucks to the finals in '94, right?

The whole Russian five thing never happened, Zubov and Kovalev didn't help the Rags capture their first Cup in 50 years and so on.

 

[PrimeMinister]

how much games do they play in the RSL? how much minutes does AO play every night? is it possible that crosby could be a bit more fatigued? no way can i or anyone else tell who will be better. Thankfully they can both start off on the same foot this year in the NHL and all questions will be answered.

 

[Chaos]

Ovechkin will be the better player this season, but Crosby will outscore him because he's got guys like Mario, Palffy, Recchi, and Gonchar, while Ovechkin, as someone put it, will be playing with a broom and a dust pan.

 

[djtino224]

Crosby for sure. He'll be playing with Lemieux and Palffy while Ovechkin will be playing with a broom and a dust pan.

Basically. Yeah...I'm picking Crosby, too.

 

[EroCaps]

That's the problem. You rave on and on about Ovechkin withstanding games with real men in the RSL and talk about Crosby's lack of competition because he never played against anybody but kids right? Well isn't it ironic that the one time Ovechkin can't handle it... The one time he gets taken out because it's too much for him, is against kids the same age as the one Crosby has been playing against?

I don't rave on, I point out. It's more of a reality beacon amidst the Crosby myopic-hype fest that goes on on HF. And Ovechkin was injured. It happens. Why does it matter who injured him? He's been playing in the toughest defensive league in the world since he was 17 without serious injury. I consider that more of a litmus. His RSL team won the league Championship and he (ad nauseum) led a National Team in goals, points, and GWG. If you're suggesting he choked, you're wrong. He's succeeded at levels that Crosby hasn't touched.

 

[thomasincanada]

He's been playing in the toughest defensive league in the world since he was 17 without serious injury.

Isn't the NHL the toughest defensive league in the world?

Tom

 

[EroCaps]

Isn't the NHL the toughest defensive league in the world?

Tom

Stingy is probably a better word. The NHL has better d-men, that's for sure.

 

[KariyaIsGod*]

I don't rave on, I point out. It's more of a reality beacon amidst the Crosby myopic-hype fest that goes on on HF. And Ovechkin was injured. It happens. Why does it matter who injured him? He's been playing in the toughest defensive league in the world since he was 17 without serious injury. I consider that more of a litmus. His RSL team won the league Championship and he (ad nauseum) led a National Team in goals, points, and GWG. If you're suggesting he choked, you're wrong. He's succeeded at levels that Crosby hasn't touched.

Any why hasn't Crosby reached those levels? Because he's only 17. Ovechkin is older. All we can do is compare them at the same age and at 17 Ovechkin was not as good as Crosby...

 

[EroCaps]

Any why hasn't Crosby reached those levels? Because he's only 17. Ovechkin is older. All we can do is compare them at the same age and at 17 Ovechkin was not as good as Crosby...

And yet, the Croz has more ?s. If he was CLEARLY more talented, he would have outplayed Ovechkin on the same stage- which he did not. Did you see Gretzky getting outplayed bc of a 1 year, 10 month age gap? Both of these guys are at a similar skill level. It's a toss up.

 

[nuck]

I don't rave on, I point out. It's more of a reality beacon amidst the Crosby myopic-hype fest that goes on on HF. And Ovechkin was injured. It happens. Why does it matter who injured him? He's been playing in the toughest defensive league in the world since he was 17 without serious injury. I consider that more of a litmus. His RSL team won the league Championship and he (ad nauseum) led a National Team in goals, points, and GWG. If you're suggesting he choked, you're wrong. He's succeeded at levels that Crosby hasn't touched.

Not trying to start a flame war here but AO's 19 year old season in the Russian league looks like 13 goals, 13 assists in 37 games. Frolov's 19 year old season in what I thought was the same league was 18 goals, 12 assists in 43 games. Did I miss something or are the two seasons pretty comparable? Now I like Frolov and I think he is going to improve quite a bit but if he didn't take the NHL by storm coming off that kind of a 19 year old season why would Ovechkin be any different? Assuming he was playing against the same level of competition of course. And don't both these seasons pale before Bure's 35 goal 19 year old season? Pavel went on to a very respectable 60 points in 65 games his rookie season in the NHL. Is there any basis to assume AO is as good as Pavel at the same age? Or better? Or did I miscalculate when comparing the ages
I think what Ovechkin and Frolov did in the Russian league marked them as players that were definitely going to do well in the NHL but I don't think you can read into that they will be automatic superstars.

 

[EroCaps]

Not trying to start a flame war here but AO's 19 year old season in the Russian league looks like 13 goals, 13 assists in 37 games. Frolov's 19 year old season in what I thought was the same league was 18 goals, 12 assists in 43 games. Did I miss something or are the two seasons pretty comparable? Now I like Frolov and I think he is going to improve quite a bit but if he didn't take the NHL by storm coming off that kind of a 19 year old season why would Ovechkin be any different? Assuming he was playing against the same level of competition of course. And don't both these seasons pale before Bure's 35 goal 19 year old season? Pavel went on to a very respectable 60 points in 65 games his rookie season in the NHL. Is there any basis to assume AO is as good as Pavel at the same age? Or better? Or did I miscalculate when comparing the ages
I think what Ovechkin and Frolov did in the Russian league marked them as players that were definitely going to do well in the NHL but I don't think you can read into that they will be automatic superstars.

And Pavel Rosa had a better year than Frolov. While I don't think RSL stats translate well, it's still a Men's league. It doesn't mean they'll be superstars.

Ovechkin played w/Kovalchuck, Datsyuk, Kovalev, Yashin, and Malkin at the WCs and outscored them all. Hypothetically, Crosby could do it @19 but even then it doesn't give him any clear advantage, IMO.

 

[espo*]

And yet, the Croz has more ?s. If he was CLEARLY more talented, he would have outplayed Ovechkin on the same stage- which he did not. Did you see Gretzky getting outplayed bc of a 1 year, 10 month age gap? Both of these guys are at a similar skill level. It's a toss up.

I believe this is true.It is a toss up at this point.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

though it is impossible to know he will be the better player this year and for years to come, it is for sure that Crosby was better at 16-17 than ovechkin. Crosby was better than lemieux at that age. at 17 AO played 21 games and had 4 points in RSL, and i have said this before, but im sure crosby could have easily done that. I bet he would have had 10 points in that many games last season in the RSL, even on fourth line minutes.

 

[espo*]

I like both players talents myself as i'm sure others do.

I really like Ovechkin's blend of great skating/size/blistering shot/ability to take the bisquit with authority and go with it along with very capable passing skills.I think he's going to be a force in the nhl and he's far from fully matured as a hockey player yet.If i were a g.m i'd be salivating while thinking just what he could become for my team in the years ahead.

My saliva glands would be no less dormant considering Crosby's potential though.Now he isn't huge like A.O but imo possesses better overall hockey sense and vision by a good margin and that pays off in spades.He is a great skater who shoots the puck well and can make plays from just about anywhere,he has a lot of "special player" intangibles about him and he's just a freaking teenager.............he's gonna be a star.If some people don't get to see him and want to write him off vis a vis any other prospect due to this i feel sorry for them because they are making a call while blindfolded.These two guys(along with a few others) are going to be the cream of the coming n.h.l in my opinion. I don't know who is going to come out on top.........maybe none of them!! They may all be pretty much pick your poison from game to game and season to season.

 

[Canuck21t]

yeah on a HF Board with about 90% canadien members

Not just in HF Boards. In every hockey forum for the past 8 years, I have yet to see a single Russian liking a Canadian player. I've seen Swedes and Finns liking Canadian players but never a Russian fan... NEVER. Not even Russians leaving in Canada.

 

[AgentNaslund*]

Crosby. Remember last year? ovehckin taking on team canada? whats so special? he got hurt remember playing against a north american style team. While Crosby is use to the tough North American style. Crosby. Ovechkin is gonna get destroyed.

 

[Canuck21t]

You know, they can't take the cat in the bag over Ovechkin, I guess not many Russians on these boards watch QMJHL or Memorial Cup or maybe even WJC (it is not televised on public channels in Russia).

Yes, I understand that but if that's the case, why are Russians so sure that Ovechkin and Malkin are so much better? Sure we're all biased but it seems that Russians just disregard anybody who isn't Russian or at least who isn't European.

At this point, I have no idea who'll be better. None have played a single game in the NHL. All I can see is that one has an advantage due to his supporting cast.

 

[Canuck21t]

Crosby. Remember last year? ovehckin taking on team canada? whats so special? he got hurt remember playing against a north american style team. While Crosby is use to the tough North American style. Crosby. Ovechkin is gonna get destroyed.

On the other hand, Crosby is smaller and will probably stay small as he is now. Ovechkin will have a hard time at the beginning but I'm sure he'll get used to the North American style pretty quick.

 

[Canuck21t]

Nice point. Personally I don´t understand this hysteria and comparing. Let them play the NHL at least 1 season...

Yes let them play at least one season, then we'll compare. At the same time, I can't really blame people for going too fast. We were without the NHL for a whole year; people are excited and can't wait.

 

[wilka91*]

Not just in HF Boards. In every hockey forum for the past 8 years, I have yet to see a single Russian liking a Canadian player. I've seen Swedes and Finns liking Canadian players but never a Russian fan... NEVER. Not even Russians leaving in Canada.

On the other hand the Russians aren't all about Ovechkin like the Canadians are about Crosby.

This past year I was sick and tired of reading all kinds of stuff about Crosby everywhere as if he were the best ever hockey player already. The Russians don't talk about Ovechkin as much. He's just like any other player. The media don't pay much attention to him. He's got to prove what he's worth, and he already proved something at the Worlds.

What did Crosby accomplish? Nothing. Everyone is talking about him though.

 

[pei fan]

On the other hand the Russians aren't all about Ovechkin like the Canadians are about Crosby.
QUOTE]
As your avatar and subtitle clearly understate.

 

[pucks1]

On the other hand the Russians aren't all about Ovechkin like the Canadians are about Crosby.
QUOTE]
As your avatar and subtitle clearly understate.

lol

 

[wilka91*]

On the other hand the Russians aren't all about Ovechkin like the Canadians are about Crosby.

As your avatar and subtitle clearly understate.

I didn't know I was Russian until now. And even if I were, I don't represent anyone else. Go to a Russian board (in Russian language I mean), you'll see how many people have an Ovechkin avatar. It's close to zero actually.

Go check some Russian sports sites, go watch their TV ... you won't find anything on Ovechkin. And I'm not talking about something similar to TSN's section on Crosby!

But there's also another reason for that : hockey is not the number 1 sport in Russia. Still, there's no fan mania around prospects there. Never.

 

[pucks1]

I didn't know I was Russian until now. And even if I were, I don't represent anyone else. Go to a Russian board (in Russian language I mean), you'll see how many people have an Ovechkin avatar. It's close to zero.

If your not Russian, why are you telling us how russian people feel about their players? Do you speak russian? why are u on russian boards that are in a Russian Language? And i do think that Ovechkin had just as much hype in his draft year (at least on hf)but this Crosbys draft year.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

I'm seeing a trend develop here.

Crosby will get the "leech on Lemieux/Palffy/Gonchar" tag.

Ovechkin will get the "selfish and heartless quiter/cherry picker" tag.

I can already see the weekly threads that are going to be created after one or the other has a good game. Hear the pro-crosby people rant how Crosby is so much better because he's outscoring Ovechkin and how Ovechkin is a puckhog, has no heart, isn't a good passer (a la Kovalchuk/Nash because he has no one to pass the puck to), etc. While the pro-Ovechkin russian possee and Don Cherry lovers-Brule affectionado-Crosby haters jump to his defense and say that he would outscore Crosby if positions were reversed and how Crosby leeches off Lemieux, Palffy, Gonchar, etc. It's going to be awesome.

We're talking about players who are 2 years apart, have completely different backgrounds, play different positions, have completely different styles, will be in completely different settings, have different skills and personality yet someone feel compelled to play the #1 russian prospect VS #1 canadian prospect card again.

Both are great prospects. Both guys haven't been locks for the #1 overall spot 1-2 years before their draft because they had weaknesses in their games (minus the occasional weirdo who thought Brule or Malkin had a chance).

But I'll say this, I have watched about 5-6 games of Ovechkin and over 50 of Crosby and from what I've seen Crosby's just as strong as Ovechkin and is just as developped. And that's even though he's 5'11/18 years old while Ovechkin is 6'2/20 years old.

Crosby has been training like a pro and with NHL pros for years. He'll probably take a pound here and there, but there's a limit to how much he can add muscles, I doubt there is an ounce of baby fat on him. He's physically and mentally the most NHL ready 18 years old I've ever seen. Wether you guys who've never watched him play or who haven't yet realized how much media pressure is on him want to believe it or not he has just as much a NHL body as Ovechkin. If Crosby doesn't have a good season, it won't be because he has yet to add meat to his body, improve his defensive awareness or improve his maturity and off-ice habits. The kid is as ready as they come.