crosby or ovechkin?

[Chimaera]

Long term, all indications point to Crosby being the better player.

He is better at his age than Ovechkin was, by a sizeable amount.

As for goals, he will porbably score just as many, if not more than AO too...

He has also demonstrated his toughness and his willingness to be a team player.

Wow are you a complete clown or what?

Crosby's significantly better at his age than Ovechkin?

While Crosby's been playing with boys most of his life Ovechkin's been in the RSL.

Long term indications? What type of 'indications' are those? The seagulls flying the right direction? The tea leaves read right? I mean, if you want to gauge the indications, how about size and strength?

What type of clown are you? Both players are exceptional for the age they're at, and it'd hard to say either player is considerably better than the other. I don't think Crosby's clearly better than Ovechkin, nor do I think Ovechkin's clearly better than Crosby.

And toughness? When has Crosby ever shown that? that's clearly not part of his game. He might take a little pushing around, but when he does it's from boys his age. Ovechkin plays against men.

And you can spew all kinds of garbage about Ovechkin sitting out in that game, but he still didn't play at full speed (or much at all) when he returned from the tourney. There's such a thing as being precautious, and injured. Especially when the main objective of Canada at that tourney was to play extremely physical against the Russians. It obviously worked. That doesn't give a knock on someone's toughness or anything. If most of Canda's defensemen are taking runs at you the whole night, it's bound to affect your play.

Crosby is extremely talented. But he's not the Great One. He's not Mario. He is the best player in the past draft class. And should be an extremely good NHL'er. But many others have failed with expectations like his. Some of you need to stop drinking the koolaid and come back to reality. Just because he's from Canada doesn't make him infinitely superior to Ovechkin.

 

[pei fan]

If they play a similar amt of icetime Crosby will score more points imo.However
I don't buy into it being because of Lemieux.We really don't know what level
he will be at. Remember the last year he played he got 1 goal in 10 games.
We can't say for sure how the year off affected him.It may have helped him heal
his injuries but it also may have slowed him down that much more.

 

[CSKA]

I think it will be Crosby .......its not only about Lemeux ....there is Palfy who is a candidate for 100 Points IMO and probably the best ofence D Gonchar !
Who has Ovechkin ? oh boy .................

But in the long term i take Ovechkin hands down

 

[KariyaIsGod*]

Wow are you a complete clown or what?

Crosby's significantly better at his age than Ovechkin?

While Crosby's been playing with boys most of his life Ovechkin's been in the RSL.

Yes. I suppose we can't forget the almighty RSL though because the Canadian junior system produces nothing but crap right since they are playing against children?

This "playing against men" crap is overrated.

Long term indications? What type of 'indications' are those? The seagulls flying the right direction? The tea leaves read right? I mean, if you want to gauge the indications, how about size and strength?

The biggest indication is Crosby's unparalleled vision. If you want to talk size and strength though, let's. Size has never been a deterrent for anyone as long as the player posessed the skills to succeed which Crosby does. Add to the fact that the premium on size in the NHL will most likely disappear with the new rules and possibly newer rules down the road. As for strength, Crosby's lower body strength is undeniably great.

What type of clown are you? Both players are exceptional for the age they're at, and it'd hard to say either player is considerably better than the other. I don't think Crosby's clearly better than Ovechkin, nor do I think Ovechkin's clearly better than Crosby.

OK... That's super. I think Crosby is significantly better than AO was at 17...

And toughness? When has Crosby ever shown that? that's clearly not part of his game. He might take a little pushing around, but when he does it's from boys his age. Ovechkin plays against men.

Have you ever watched Crosby play? He takes far more punishment nightly than Ovechkin did in the Canada game. I mean really, those Canadians were just boys a few years older than Sid, yet Ovechkin still couldn't handle a little pushing?

And you can spew all kinds of garbage about Ovechkin sitting out in that game, but he still didn't play at full speed (or much at all) when he returned from the tourney. There's such a thing as being precautious, and injured. Especially when the main objective of Canada at that tourney was to play extremely physical against the Russians. It obviously worked. That doesn't give a knock on someone's toughness or anything. If most of Canda's defensemen are taking runs at you the whole night, it's bound to affect your play.

It is a knock on his toughness. He didn't get runned at all. When he touched the puck, he always took a small check. Hell, the biggest ones he took might have been from Crosby. There is a time to be precautious and it's not when you're playing an important game for your country.

Crosby is extremely talented. But he's not the Great One. He's not Mario. He is the best player in the past draft class. And should be an extremely good NHL'er. But many others have failed with expectations like his. Some of you need to stop drinking the koolaid and come back to reality. Just because he's from Canada doesn't make him infinitely superior to Ovechkin.

Right, and Ovechkin isn't even close to the Great One or Mario either, what's your point? I only claimed Crosby was better at his age than Ovechkin was when he was 17.

You're right though, others have failed. What's stopping Ovechkin from failing though, instead of Crosby?

We don't care that he's from Canada either. Plenty of Canadians bash Crosby. Interestingly enough, I have never seen a Russian on these boards bash Ovechkin... Just because Crosby is from Canada, doesn't mean he's going to fail...

 

[CSKA]

Right, and Ovechkin isn't even close to the Great One or Mario either, what's your point? I only claimed Crosby was better at his age than Ovechkin was when he was 17

That is simply wrong ! Ovechkin absolutly dominated from 16-17 .....broke some international records and already played in the RSL

We don't care that he's from Canada either. Plenty of Canadians bash Crosby. Interestingly enough, I have never seen a Russian on these boards bash Ovechkin... Just because Crosby is from Canada, doesn't mean he's going to fail...

What art of bashing do you mean ? Because one or two canadien members saying he is not the next Gretzky or Lemeux ? Oh please

 

[KariyaIsGod*]

That is simply wrong ! Ovechkin absolutly dominated from 16-17 .....broke some international records and already played in the RSL




What art of bashing do you mean ? Because one or two canadien members saying he is not the next Gretzky or Lemeux ? Oh please

Actually, that has nothing to do with it. I'm talking about people saying he will be a failure etc...

Hell, if you read my post I never claimed he was the next Gretz or Mario anyway...

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

That is simply wrong ! Ovechkin absolutly dominated from 16-17 .....broke some international records and already played in the RSL

Crosby was better than ovechkin at 16-17. Ovechkin was bigger and more physically mature at the same age, but was not as good as Crosby. Crosby is the best 16-17 year old since Lemieux, maybe even better than lemieux at the same age. Nobody has dominated hockey at such a young age. Ovy played RSL at 17 and scored like 4 points in 21 games, i guarantee you Crosby could have put up that many last year in the RSL with his eyes closed. Just cause its men doesnt mean the skill level is That much higher. Sure its a more challenging league by a good margin, but to score 168 pts in 62 games in the Q (52 points ahead of the next player, who is by some strange coincidence your line mate) as a 17 year old is unbelievable.

Edit* Oh and Crosby was the youngest player ever to score for a canadian junior team (and Canada is good at hockey)

 

[pens66]

Bold prediction for Crosby getting 95 points his rookie season even with Super Mario.

Yet AO gets 72 points basically single-handedly for the Capitals.

But you did give AO more goals therefor it is not entirely Crosby-sided.

Playing in every game for Crosby is also a stretch by my estimation, and why -2 for AO?

Percentage of teams goals and points should also be a factor in the ‘better’ category along with unassisted goals and short handed goals.

It would appear that many think AO is capable of a better individual(unassisted) effort and Crosby needs a supporting cast.

In the long run:

Points = Crosby
Player= AO
Goals= AO

In my book assists are nice but goals are supreme.

Q: if the Caps lucked out with the #1 pick, again would both of their statistics(as quoted) increase assuming that they were both on the same line?

If you think goals are supreme would you take Pavel Bure over Peter Forsberg? Personally, and i think most believe, Forsberg is far superior to Bure in terms of his complete game. I prefer players who make their teammates better rather than scorers who cherry-pick waiting for a breakaway pass.

 

[pens66]

I think it will be Crosby .......its not only about Lemeux ....there is Palfy who is a candidate for 100 Points IMO and probably the best ofence D Gonchar !
Who has Ovechkin ? oh boy .................

But in the long term i take Ovechkin hands down

I just love the sincere objectivity in these threads. I will reserve my judgment on both players after they play 20 games in the NHL. Nobody knows for sure what to expect from either player, and there is always the possibility that either ovechkin or crosby may become busts, you just never know. (ie: Daigle, said to be the next lemieux.)

 

[SubNova]

Oh yeah and Crosby is the next ONE, and by the next one I mean Alexandre Daigle, QMJHL stats very close.

 

[mach 1]

when they play against each other crosby well land a nice hit on AO.then alex the great will watch his team get beat.crosby=big heart
ovechkin=big head

 

[Maken*]

when they play against each other crosby well land a nice hit on AO.then alex the great will watch his team get beat.crosby=big heart ovechkin=big head

 

[me2]

Crosby should win this easily and I'd be disappointed if he didn't. AO has got no supporting offensive cast, a poor team in general, and very likely a quite medicore PP. AO is going to see the best checkers game in game out. He's going to see the best shutdown D pairings game in game out. He's going to be physically targeted game in game out. Why? Because teams can focus on him. Teams can't afford to just try to lock down Crosby only, because then Mario, Palffy, etc will score.

The Pengs PP has the potential to be dynamite. If Mario, Ziggy, Crosby, Gonchar click, then Crosby could pick up enough PP assists to he beats AO in scoring comfortably.

That's not a knock AO, if they switched teams I'd back AO to win the scoring race for the same reasons.

 

[EroCaps]

 

[Maken*]

WJC, Gold Medal Game. Not in a million years would Crosby have let his team down had he been depended on as much as the Ruskies were depending on AO. Heart, determination, and skill. Crosby 3/3. AO 1/3.

 

[EroCaps]

WJC, Gold Medal Game. Not in a million years would Crosby have let his team down had he been depended on as much as the Ruskies were depending on AO. Heart, determination, and skill. Crosby 3/3. AO 1/3.

So I take it Crosby won the Memorial Cup? Oh right. Or best forward at WJC? No. He must have led his Men's National Team in goals, points, and GWG? Oops, that was Ovechkin. Ovechkin was injured in the Gold Medal game and missed several weeks.

 

[Maken*]

So I take it Crosby won the Memorial Cup? Oh right.

London had the best CHL team in decades. Great teams beat great players every day. At least Sid gave it a valiant effort (unlike AO).

Or best forward at WJC? No.

Canada plays a team game(unlike some countries), hard to say who the best player is when the forwards buy into the Team Canada philosophy.

He must have led his Men's National Team in goals, points, and GWG? Oops, that was Ovechkin.

Crosby wasn't on the team...

Ovechkin was injured in the Gold Medal game and missed several weeks.

Yes. Yes he was injured... and oh how ironic it was.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Crosby should win this easily and I'd be disappointed if he didn't. AO has got no supporting offensive cast, a poor team in general, and very likely a quite medicore PP. AO is going to see the best checkers game in game out. He's going to see the best shutdown D pairings game in game out. He's going to be physically targeted game in game out. Why? Because teams can focus on him. Teams can't afford to just try to lock down Crosby only, because then Mario, Palffy, etc will score.

The Pengs PP has the potential to be dynamite. If Mario, Ziggy, Crosby, Gonchar click, then Crosby could pick up enough PP assists to he beats AO in scoring comfortably.

That's not a knock AO, if they switched teams I'd back AO to win the scoring race for the same reasons.

I almost agree totally with this. Pretty hard to judge players when the teams (offensively at the very least) are so world's apart. Then again, Mario won scoring titles on some very very bad teams and made players like Warren Young look like world beaters when playing on his wing. So though I am 99% sure that the above must be true the 'Mario' experience holds me back from 100%.

 

[espo*]

I almost agree totally with this. Pretty hard to judge players when the teams (offensively at the very least) are so world's apart. Then again, Mario won scoring titles on some very very bad teams and made players like Warren Young look like world beaters when playing on his wing. So though I am 99% sure that the above must be true the 'Mario' experience holds me back from 100%.

I think you're pretty safe though..............Ovechkin is no Lemieux.

 

[Chimaera]

London had the best CHL team in decades. Great teams beat great players every day. At least Sid gave it a valiant effort (unlike AO).

So, a good team beat a great player in Ovechkin at Juniors. It's hypocritical to have it one way and not have it the other way.

Canada plays a team game(unlike some countries), hard to say who the best player is when the forwards buy into the Team Canada philosophy.

It's not really hard to say who's the teams 'best forward'. you watch the games.



The irony I'm getting from all of this is some of you jokers who think Crosby's clearly better than Ovechkin. He's not. Ovechkin's been compared with Mario and other top players and heck, has been called one of the best prospects to come out of Russia. Ever. That's a pretty tall scale. So, for Crosby to be 'significantly' better, in scouts opinions, he'd have to be the greatest single hockey prospect ever to lace them up. Period. That means no questions about any part of his game. No question on whether he'll hold up to a full season of pounding. Whether he'll be strong enough. Whether he'll be a defensive liability. Whether he can play on the wing. Etc. Etc. Etc.

The numbers aren't that vastly different. And I hate to say it, but anyone arguing that the Q is a superior league to the RSL is a fool. Playing against solid NHL'ers week in and week out is definitely a lot harder. Heck, practicing against NHL'ers is probably tougher then playing in the Q.


And you can say 'vision', 'hockey sense' or whatever you'd like. But those aren't significantly better. I'd say speed wise, Ovechkin's clearly better. Defensively Ovechkin's clearly better. Physically Ovechkin's clearly better. Durability over a long season, I'd gamble Ovechkin's clearly better. Size wise, Ovechkin's clearly better.


That's not to say that Ovechkin is the superior prospect. I don't think he is. Crosby still plays Center. But I don't think it's a large gap like some boneheads on here think it is.

If you want to argue how much size doesn't matter, how can you explain the Comments in this week's SI issue where the Flyer's GM feels that if anything hockey might bog down into a zone based game where much of the time is spent in zones, instead of transitions. Not only that, he added a lot of size instead of going with the more mobile defensemen he already had. I'm not saying Crosby's going to be extremely affected, but in a perfect world, most GM's would like to see another 2-3 inches and another 20 pounds.

Playing against men 'overrated' you say? So a player's not going to prove himself better against men? Not going to learn the game from men better than boys? Not going to challenge himself against the highest competition? No, it's not the end all. But it certainly is a positive in Ovechkin's column.

It's all a moot point because 3/4ths of Canada's youth has a hard on for Crosby. The irony of it is they had the same hard on for Daigle a few years back, and will have the same kinda feeling when the next flame of the week comes through.

 

[nuck]

Not a prayer Ovechkin will outscore Crosby. Washington is an awful team. He has nobody to play with there. No skilled players to get him the puck and nobody he can pass to to score. He will have to do everything by himself. Besides Ovechkin is a winger and Crosby is a center. If talent is equal the center always makes more points because he handles the puck more and gets more assists.
This thread would make more sense if you asked which of the two players was more talented because at least both sides are arguable. Nobody short of a young Wayne Gretzky could have a big year with the team AO is is stuck with this year while Crosby plays with Lemieux. Palffy and Recchi. One is being set up to fail and the other to succeed. In three years when Pittsburgh's veteran stars are gone or at least washed up you can make a fair comparison of the two of them. AO is more mature than Crosby and is capable of having a better year but not based on the total points he will get.

 

[KariyaIsGod*]

So, a good team beat a great player in Ovechkin at Juniors. It's hypocritical to have it one way and not have it the other way.

The difference is that Crosby played through the dirty hacks and abuse while Ovechkin, who HAS BEEN PLAYING WITH MEN FOR YEARS , couldn't even handle a few clean checks from a bunch of kids...

The irony I'm getting from all of this is some of you jokers who think Crosby's clearly better than Ovechkin. He's not. Ovechkin's been compared with Mario and other top players and heck, has been called one of the best prospects to come out of Russia. Ever. That's a pretty tall scale. So, for Crosby to be 'significantly' better, in scouts opinions, he'd have to be the greatest single hockey prospect ever to lace them up. Period. That means no questions about any part of his game. No question on whether he'll hold up to a full season of pounding. Whether he'll be strong enough. Whether he'll be a defensive liability. Whether he can play on the wing. Etc. Etc. Etc.

Ovechkin doesn't have the intangibles to ever be a Lemieux or Gretzky... As for questions? There are questions about heart, being a team player... Character issues. How can he hold up to NHL pounding when he can't even hold up to a one game pounding delivered by a bunch of kids...? More importantly, there shouldn't be questions about Crosby's size or strength because he's demonstrated a willingness to play bigger than he is. He's shown time and time again just how powerful he can be and he played the wing at the WJC and did fine...

The numbers aren't that vastly different. And I hate to say it, but anyone arguing that the Q is a superior league to the RSL is a fool. Playing against solid NHL'ers week in and week out is definitely a lot harder. Heck, practicing against NHL'ers is probably tougher then playing in the Q.

Nobody is arguing the Q is better than the RSL but Crosby's numbers were mind boggling. Mario is a Q product and he turned out fine... On the other hand we could name countless products from both leagues that turned out as poor NHL even though the RSL boys have been palying with men...

And you can say 'vision', 'hockey sense' or whatever you'd like. But those aren't significantly better. I'd say speed wise, Ovechkin's clearly better. Defensively Ovechkin's clearly better. Physically Ovechkin's clearly better. Durability over a long season, I'd gamble Ovechkin's clearly better. Size wise, Ovechkin's clearly better.

Actually, they are significantly better. As for speed, Crosby's accerleration is unparralleled... Ask some scouts... Defensively, who cares? Physically? Ovechkin sure proved he's better in the gold medal game didn't he? Durability? Again, how can he withstand NHL checks when a 17 year old Crosby knocks him out of games? Size wise? Ian Laperriere is far better size wise than Marty St. Louis too but who's better?

That's not to say that Ovechkin is the superior prospect. I don't think he is. Crosby still plays Center. But I don't think it's a large gap like some boneheads on here think it is.

If you want to argue how much size doesn't matter, how can you explain the Comments in this week's SI issue where te Flyer's GM feels that if anything hockey might bog down into a zone based game where much of the time is spent in zones, instead of transitions. Not only that, he added a lot of size instead of going with the more mobile defensemen he already had. I'm not saying Crosby's going to be extremely affected, but in a perfect world, most GM's would like to see another 2-3 inches and another 20 pounds.

Right, and when Derian Hatcher continually gets burnt trying to lug his oafish frame up and down the rink, how will Clark look then? Really it doesn't matter. Crosby is a top line ceneter and Clarke is talking about defensemen. Plus, if the game doesn't open up this year, the rules will again be changed and it won't take long before smaller fast guys dominate.

Playing against men 'overrated' you say? So a player's not going to prove himself better against men? Not going to learn the game from men better than boys? Not going to challenge himself against the highest competition? No, it's not the end all. But it certainly is a positive in Ovechkin's column.

4 points in 21 games vs. men sucks compared to 160+ points against players who are almost men... The difference between the RSL and the Q is not that big... No doubt it could be considered a positive in Oveckin's column but in no way does it elevate him over Crosby...

It's all a moot point because 3/4ths of Canada's youth has a hard on for Crosby. The irony of it is they had the same hard on for Daigle a few years back, and will have the same kinda feeling when the next flame of the week comes through.

Right, we all know nothing about hockey and are in love with Crosby? The same could be said for ewveryone in Russia and Ovechkin so really it's a wash...

 

[Jacob]

I think their immediate impacts will be similar but long-term, Crosby will be the better player.

Ovechkin's supporting cast is **** but he's way more developed than Crosby is and the transition from the RSL to the NHL is probably not as great as the Q to the NHL.

 

[EroCaps]

The difference is that Crosby played through the dirty hacks and abuse while Ovechkin, who HAS BEEN PLAYING WITH MEN FOR YEARS , couldn't even handle a few clean checks from a bunch of kids...

You lost me at this genius statement.

Ovechkin has played how many games against NHL calibre players without suffering injury? He gets hurt in one game and you isolate it as the penultimate example of his toughness. Why? It's probably one of three games you've seen him play- and I'm being generous.

He's done more to show he can physically handle NHL talent than any NHL prospect in years, including Crosby. If you can't see that, you're not trying IMO.

As for who will score more- Kovalchuck and Nash haven't seemed to suffer statistically from lack of quality linemates. There's nothing Ovechkin can do to trump playing w/Lemieux and Palffy, but it's not like he's dependent on being second fiddle. He'll get his share.

 

[Canuck21t]

We don't care that he's from Canada either. Plenty of Canadians bash Crosby. Interestingly enough, I have never seen a Russian on these boards bash Ovechkin... Just because Crosby is from Canada, doesn't mean he's going to fail...

That is so true. Most Canadians prefer Crosby but many also prefer Ovechkin. On the other hand, have you ever heard a Russian prefering Crosby? NEVER.