Rumor: Crosby, Malkin only Penguins "untouchable" trade pieces

[T1K]

I think Guentzel, Murray, and McCann are all definitely safe along with Sid/Geno.

Otherwise, trading Kessel, Maatta, and Johnson should serve as a decent retooling opportunity.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Pacioretty, Karlsson and Stone brought back better returns than just the 14th overall pick. I don't know why you're mentioning them, those trades help my case for why Kessel has more value than that.

I'm honestly not sure what you're trying to argue. Pacioretty was traded for Tatar, Suzuki and a 2nd. Suzuki was the #13 pick a year prior. Stone was traded for Brannstrom, Lindberg and a 2nd as a rental. Brannstrom was the #15 pick 2 years prior, but he was also eclipsing on superstar potential. That helps my case for Kessel having more value than just the 14th overall pick, unless the #14th overall pick this year somehow has more value than a guy drafted 14th overall the year before. Those guys support my case that pick #14 alone isn't close enough for Kessel, when he's more likely to bring back something like say Panik, the #14 pick and a 2nd round pick.

I don't really get those comparisons to be honest.

Pacioretty didn't have any trade protection (Kessel does) and Montreal had to take Tatar back, who at the time was viewed as a cap dump after being benched most of his time in Vegas. Its easy to look at Tatar as a big piece now, but he just had what was easily the best season of his career at 27/28, which is far from the norm.

Karlsson didn't have any trade protection and is a defenceman, not a winger, and was/is viewed as one of the best players in the NHL.

Stone didn't have any trade protection and was not a rental. The trade only happened because Vegas got to speak with Stone first and were confident they would be able to sign him after they acquired him. Stone is also a much more valuable piece right now than Kessel. He's younger, a selke caliber winger and has much larger overall positive impact on the game.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Based on what exactly? Hornqvist is the type of player that all coaches and teammates love. And with 4 seasons left at 5.3m, that's far from some "way overpaid, way too long" contract.

As for Jack Johnson, there's a reason why there were multiple teams interested in him last summer. Personally I would have been fine with him going elsewhere, but at 3.25m for 4 more seasons, he too is far from overpaid or having "negative value".

Players don't just have negative value because a Washington fan decides they don't like them. I know you wish it were otherwise, but welcome to reality.

Yeah, I agree about Johnson. He's not a great player but is serviceable and at that salary you can hide him on the 3rd pairing and it will be okay.

 

[Jacob]

I think Kessel's limited movement isn't that big of an obstacle. I think he'd easily waive it to go to any team that wouldn't put a huge spotlight or a ton of pressure on him. Including any sunbelt team and any team in the upper midwest. I don't think he's unhappy in Pittsburgh but he does seem fairly indifferent about being a Penguin.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

Kessel to the Yotes confirmed. Tocchet welcomes his sweet prince home.

Tocchet is Ann Sullivan to Kessel’s Helen Keller

 

[Misery74]

Based on what exactly? Hornqvist is the type of player that all coaches and teammates love. And with 4 seasons left at 5.3m, that's far from some "way overpaid, way too long" contract.

As for Jack Johnson, there's a reason why there were multiple teams interested in him last summer. Personally I would have been fine with him going elsewhere, but at 3.25m for 4 more seasons, he too is far from overpaid or having "negative value".

Players don't just have negative value because a Washington fan decides they don't like them. I know you wish it were otherwise, but welcome to reality.

You think Jack Johnson has positive value, and question me being in touch with reality?

JJ was a healthy scratch, for good reason, he is terrible. Don’t take a Washington fans word for it, try asking Penguin fans.

As for Horny, he is the kind of player that ages quickly. He plays such a physical game, injuries are bound to tear him down. He is more a PP specialist rather than a 5 vs. 5 threat. Maybe he can be moved, but you are taking a contract back.

 

[T1K]

I think he wants to go to AZ and I feel that the Penguins will probably look to do him right by trading him there — barring the trade packages that are on the table from other teams.

Gogo + 1st for Kessel is a trade I’d do for sure. Obviously there’s a contingency on getting rid of Maatta or JJ if we acquire a LHD, but we can package one of those two aforementioned players with a pick or prospect as necessary.

 

[Leafs87]

I feel any Kessel trade would have to happen after Panarin signs. Whoever wants Kessel would probably prefer Panarin for no assets and just cap.

 

[T1K]

I feel any Kessel trade would have to happen after Panarin signs. Whoever wants Kessel would probably prefer Panarin for no assets and just cap.

Sure, that’s fair, but some teams may value the probable ~3 mil in cap savings over the difference in their age/abilities.

Not saying that Kessel has higher “value” per say, but in terms of which player teams target, I can see that being a mixed bag.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don't really get those comparisons to be honest.

Pacioretty didn't have any trade protection (Kessel does) and Montreal had to take Tatar back, who at the time was viewed as a cap dump after being benched most of his time in Vegas. Its easy to look at Tatar as a big piece now, but he just had what was easily the best season of his career at 27/28, which is far from the norm.

Stone didn't have any trade protection and was not a rental. The trade only happened because Vegas got to speak with Stone first and were confident they would be able to sign him after they acquired him. Stone is also a much more valuable piece right now than Kessel. He's younger, a selke caliber winger and has much larger overall positive impact on the game.

You're ignoring that Kessel had a vastly better season than Pacioretty had before he got traded. His NTC isn't the only thing to consider here. In Stone's case, he was traded for a vastly more valuable prospect than the #14 pick. Brannstrom's value in terms of draft picks is probably near a top-3 pick.

The Pacioretty trade is the only trade that should be cited, though. It was a cap dump middle-6 forward, a former mid 1st rounder and a 2nd for Pacioretty with an extension, that's the bear minimum return for Kessel. More realistically, change that cap dump middle-6 forward to a decently priced middle-6 forward and that's the return you're probably looking at. Using Arizona, Panik, a 1st and a 2nd is pretty much spot on when it comes to Kessel's value. Or using Nashville, Smith, Tolvanen and a 2nd is pretty much spot on when it comes to Kessel's value.

 

[Riptide]

You think Jack Johnson has positive value, and question me being in touch with reality?

JJ was a healthy scratch, for good reason, he is terrible. Don’t take a Washington fans word for it, try asking Penguin fans.

As for Horny, he is the kind of player that ages quickly. He plays such a physical game, injuries are bound to tear him down. He is more a PP specialist rather than a 5 vs. 5 threat. Maybe he can be moved, but you are taking a contract back.

I'll wait while you go find a post where I've said that. What I actually said is that he has no value. However that's not the same thing as having negative value. Rutherford could trade him if he wanted to. I mean just look at Gudbranson. He was statistically the absolute worst blueliner in the NHL over the past few seasons - and even he was traded for something useful. And JJ costs less, and unlike Gudbranson at the time of his trade has actually been decent since roughly December onwards.

So no while I don't think Pittsburgh would get shit for him, neither do I think they'd have to pay someone to take him.

As for Hornqvist, please provide some examples. The best in terms of how he plays the game and his skillset is Holmstrom, and he still had very productive seasons into his mid/late 30s.

 

[Beerfish]

More non startling news.

Teams area always saying 'EVERYONE Is AVAILABLE' (except for all of our really good players.) And like most teams you are not going to make a big change in your team unless a big piece is moved. Nothing to see here.

 

[Meeqs]

Its so funny seeing people who on here who don't understand the aging curve still wanting Kessel. Giving them any thing decent in return is doing them a massive favor.

Pens will likely look to shuffle deck chairs to give their core one last shot before their window closes. It was an absolutely incredible run but I think we are starting to look at the near start of a rebuilding era in Pit.

 

[bernmeister]

Might have interest in Letang on NYR but not optimistic we agree on price either in value or currency.

Schultz is a more reasonable target, POSSIBLY.

yea? nay?

 

[Beauner]

Might have interest in Letang on NYR but not optimistic we agree on price either in value or currency.

Schultz is a more reasonable target, POSSIBLY.

yea? nay?

Schultz just isn't a guy who is worth it to move. He's our 3rd best defenmenan and the 2nd pairing anchor. Also sees time on PP1 when Letang is off his game. I think he's more valuable to us than in a trade

 

[molon labe]

Only Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin are considered "untouchable" when it comes to a potential Penguins trade, a team source told The Athletic's Rob Rossi.

Report: Only Crosby, Malkin 'untouchable' for Pens on trade market

In theory, this is likely almost true by both the "inside source" and logic. However, with the way McCann & Bjugs played coming over from FLA I find it highly unlikely either of them are dealt...they lock up the 3C spot for us. Also, as the article suggests, prying away Murray or Guentzel would be unlikely from either side of that potential deal. Murray being more likely than Guentzel imo. Then the likelyhood we part ways with Letang or Dumo seems slim to none.....However, this leaves:

NOTE: The bolded are players most of us believe to be readily available.

Phil Kessel
Patric Hornqvist
Bryan Rust
Jared McCann
Nick Bjugstad
Dominik Simon
Teddy Blueger
Zach Aston-Reese

Kris Letang
Brian Dumoulin
Olli Maatta
Erik Gudbranson
Jack Johnson
Marcus Pettersson

Matt Murray
Casey DeSmith
Tristan Jarry


Potential deals? Seems like a can of worms but there's already about 6 Pens' trade threads.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

already have a thread for this.

 

[SnizzNasty88]

Remember when Penguins fans said that Olli Maatta was going to be better than Morgan Rielly? Good times man

 

[SnizzNasty88]

Remember when Penguins fans said that Olli Maatta was going to be better than Morgan Rielly? Good times man

 

[domaug]

Remember when Penguins fans said that Olli Maatta was going to be better than Morgan Rielly? Good times man

i seem to remember more Leafs fans saying Kessel was washed up and garbage. then he won two Cups.

ah, good times indeed.

 

[domaug]

I think he wants to go to AZ and I feel that the Penguins will probably look to do him right by trading him there — barring the trade packages that are on the table from other teams.

Gogo + 1st for Kessel is a trade I’d do for sure. Obviously there’s a contingency on getting rid of Maatta or JJ if we acquire a LHD, but we can package one of those two aforementioned players with a pick or prospect as necessary.

that seems like a silly return. i wouldn't do that. not sure why Arizona would either.

i don't think Arizona would want to give up anything more than scraps for Kessel.

 

[domaug]

Remember when Penguins fans said that Olli Maatta was going to be better than Morgan Rielly? Good times man

i seem to remember more Leafs fans saying Kessel was washed up and garbage. then he won two Cups.

ah, good times indeed.

*deja vu*

 

[SnizzNasty88]

i seem to remember more Leafs fans saying Kessel was washed up and garbage. then he won two Cups.

ah, good times indeed.

*deja vu*

Not me, I’m the biggest Phil Kessel fan in the city, I have 6 jerseys and my friends call me “Kess”, my hockey number is 81. So no, not me included in that. I always KNEW how good Kessel was putting up a PPG with Bozak as his centre, you guys THOUGHT Maatta was going to be better and y’all couldn’t have been more wrong, it’s hilarious that’s what you guys thought at one point You guys will probably trade Kessel anyway..

 

[domaug]

Not me, I’m the biggest Phil Kessel fan in the city, I have 6 jerseys and my friends call me “Kess”, my hockey number is 81. So no, not me included in that. I always KNEW how good Kessel was putting up a PPG with Bozak as his centre, you guys THOUGHT Maatta was going to be better and y’all couldn’t have been more wrong, it’s hilarious that’s what you guys thought at one point You guys will probably trade Kessel anyway..

while we're playing the "not me" game, i never claimed one way or another how good Maatta would be down the road.

don't put words in my mouth and worry about your own team for once (i know that's a foreign concept for Leafs fans like you)

 

[phlocky]

Didn't take long for this to turn into a pissing contest