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Speculation: Crawford

Pez68

Registered User
Mar 18, 2010
18,475
25,423
Chicago, IL
BK said:
I do but anything can happen. I have played lights out and stopped all the high quality chances only to have a shutout or game ruined by a shot that goes off my own player then in or I let in a weak due to technique mistakes or trying to do to much.

Goalies are weird, sometimes the games moves so slow and it comes easy and random times it is moving way to fast and you can’t stop a beachball. I had games in Jrs, AAA, and HS where I could stop everything and make it looks smooth only to play in a beer league/practice the next night/day where I could not stop a single shot.

I do wonder that the threshold his where weak chances out weigh high quality chances. Never have taken the time to dig into the data.
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You still play? :nod:
 
BK

BK

"Goalie Apologist"
Feb 8, 2011
33,636
16,483
Minneapolis, MN
Pez68 said:
You still play? :nod:
Click to expand...

Goalie? Not a chance. My back is trashed at this point. I skate during the winter and few times a summer. Goalie has no appeal to me.

I stay up to date on the position though just in case my daughter plays or if I feel like coaching.
 

Pez68

Registered User
Mar 18, 2010
18,475
25,423
Chicago, IL
BK said:
Goalie? Not a chance. My back is trashed at this point. I skate during the winter and few times a summer. Goalie has no appeal to me.

I stay up to date on the position though just in case my daughter plays or if I feel like coaching.
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Well that sucks. I was hoping to add you to my ever growing goalie sub list.

Get your back fixed. :nod:
 

Pez68

Registered User
Mar 18, 2010
18,475
25,423
Chicago, IL
Well you come in on the weekends for games. A little beer league hockey and a Hawks game sounds like a good weekend!
 
BK

BK

"Goalie Apologist"
Feb 8, 2011
33,636
16,483
Minneapolis, MN
Pez68 said:
Well you come in on the weekends for games. A little beer league hockey and a Hawks game sounds like a good weekend!
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Haha sounds like fun except for the beer league game.

I was actually looking at gear the other day and had the itch but then my back reminded me that it hates twisting and turning like that.
 

Robsker

Registered User
Nov 8, 2014
1,051
205
We need to recognize that even if Crow returns it is rather unlikely that he will return at the same level he was playing before. Now, it is, of course, possible that he does pick up where he left off, but...

He is 33 years old --- many goalies begin a rather sharp drop-off at that age --- and that is w/o mitigating circumstances and w/o missing a great deal of ice time. For Crow, he is not only older and at that natural drop-off age (that most, not all, but most drop off markedly) -- but he has some sort of injury (or something) that he is coming off of --- which lowers the probability of coming back at the same level even more so than for a guy that age w/o such mitigating circumstances. Further, he has not played in a long, long time. That does not help either. So...

Even if Crow does return (which is not by any means guaranteed) there is a pretty good chance that he will no longer be a top 6 or 8 goalie. He might... but it is more likely that he plays at a level beneath what has been his norm --- age, rust, and coming off injury will do that to a guy. So...

I hope he returns and hope he does so without drop-off --- but I am not convinced that it is reasonable to expect that if he does return that we get the same excellence that we are accustomed to. We might, and that would be great, but I would not expect so. Hope for... sure. Expect... no.
 
BK

BK

"Goalie Apologist"
Feb 8, 2011
33,636
16,483
Minneapolis, MN
Robsker said:
We need to recognize that even if Crow returns it is rather unlikely that he will return at the same level he was playing before. Now, it is, of course, possible that he does pick up where he left off, but...

He is 33 years old --- many goalies begin a rather sharp drop-off at that age --- and that is w/o mitigating circumstances and w/o missing a great deal of ice time. For Crow, he is not only older and at that natural drop-off age (that most, not all, but most drop off markedly) -- but he has some sort of injury (or something) that he is coming off of --- which lowers the probability of coming back at the same level even more so than for a guy that age w/o such mitigating circumstances. Further, he has not played in a long, long time. That does not help either. So...

Even if Crow does return (which is not by any means guaranteed) there is a pretty good chance that he will no longer be a top 6 or 8 goalie. He might... but it is more likely that he plays at a level beneath what has been his norm --- age, rust, and coming off injury will do that to a guy. So...

I hope he returns and hope he does so without drop-off --- but I am not convinced that it is reasonable to expect that if he does return that we get the same excellence that we are accustomed to. We might, and that would be great, but I would not expect so. Hope for... sure. Expect... no.
Click to expand...

Do you have proof of this or is this more of an assumption? Not saying you are wrong I am just looking for clarification plus I would love to dig into their data.
 
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Robsker

Registered User
Nov 8, 2014
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205
BK said:
Do you have proof of this or is this more of an assumption? Not saying you are wrong I am just looking for clarification plus I would love to dig into their data.
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I did not look up data --- no time for that. but the anecdotal evidence is there, look at most goalies who were fairly consistent in performance and see at what age the drop-off begins --- just drawing from memory --- and age 33 or 34 (and sometimes a year earlier as well) and the decline begins (sometimes a pretty steep decline). not too many goalies are still at their prime after age 33 (again, some, of course, are --- but more have begun their descent than not).
 
BobbyJet

BobbyJet

I am Canadian
Oct 27, 2010
29,824
9,874
Dundas, Ontario. Can
Robsker said:
We need to recognize that even if Crow returns it is rather unlikely that he will return at the same level he was playing before. Now, it is, of course, possible that he does pick up where he left off, but...

He is 33 years old --- many goalies begin a rather sharp drop-off at that age --- and that is w/o mitigating circumstances and w/o missing a great deal of ice time. For Crow, he is not only older and at that natural drop-off age (that most, not all, but most drop off markedly) -- but he has some sort of injury (or something) that he is coming off of --- which lowers the probability of coming back at the same level even more so than for a guy that age w/o such mitigating circumstances. Further, he has not played in a long, long time. That does not help either. So...

Even if Crow does return (which is not by any means guaranteed) there is a pretty good chance that he will no longer be a top 6 or 8 goalie. He might... but it is more likely that he plays at a level beneath what has been his norm --- age, rust, and coming off injury will do that to a guy. So...

I hope he returns and hope he does so without drop-off --- but I am not convinced that it is reasonable to expect that if he does return that we get the same excellence that we are accustomed to. We might, and that would be great, but I would not expect so. Hope for... sure. Expect... no.
Click to expand...
BK said:
Do you have proof of this or is this more of an assumption? Not saying you are wrong I am just looking for clarification plus I would love to dig into their data.
Click to expand...

Best of luck trying to evaluate goalies at any age. It seems to me they're all different but I do think that the modern style takes its toll on the lower body (much more than it did in previous generations). IMO, generally speaking, a 33 year-old goalie is getting long in the tooth these days.
 
b1e9a8r5s

b1e9a8r5s

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Feb 16, 2015
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I don't think age is a big concern at this point and age 33 doesn't strike me as some sort of cliff. Since we are just using anecdotal evidence, I'll point out that Fluery was 33 this year and Rinne won the Vezina at 35.
 
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BK

BK

"Goalie Apologist"
Feb 8, 2011
33,636
16,483
Minneapolis, MN
BobbyJet said:
Best of luck trying to evaluate goalies at any age. It seems to me they're all different but I do think that the modern style takes its toll on the lower body (much more than it did in previous generations). IMO, generally speaking, a 33 year-old goalie is getting long in the tooth these days.
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I agree about the toll it takes on the body in general. Goalies can just randomly fall apart mentally as well. The position in general is close to impossible to evaluate long term. I tend to favor athleticism and ability to read the play over technique at a young age as you cannot teach that.
 
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Pez68

Registered User
Mar 18, 2010
18,475
25,423
Chicago, IL
Age isn't the concern here. The concern is that Crawford hasn't played a game in 9 months(and from all accounts...has hardly even touched the ice)... He will not come back anywhere NEAR the level he was before his "injury". You can pretty much guarantee that. It will take him quite a while to get back to that level of play, if he ever does...

I personally expect to never see elite Crawford again.
 
LordKOTL

LordKOTL

Abuse of Officials
Aug 15, 2014
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Pacific NW
b1e9a8r5s said:
I don't think age is a big concern at this point and age 33 doesn't strike me as some sort of cliff. Since we are just using anecdotal evidence, I'll point out that Fluery was 33 this year and Rinne won the Vezina at 35.
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Not to mention Tim Thomas had one of, if not the best goaltending-year ever when he was 38.

Age in-and-of-itself is not a concern for Crawford. Whether or not whatever he's suffering from is something he can bounce back from is.
 
ColdSteel2

ColdSteel2

Registered User
Aug 27, 2010
34,759
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Yeah, there really isn’t a “cliff” for goalies, just depends on the guy. But generally, maintaining prime level play from 36 onward is rare.
 
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