Confirmed with Link: Coyotes trade Strome and Perlini for Nick Schmaltz - Part Deux

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RABBIT

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“Ted’s dead baby. TEDs Dead”
Tocchet is in the running for Jack Adams.

Chayka, way more good than bad, imo. The two big moves need time to show their value (look at Galchenyuk's play as of late).

I don't really get the Barroway disdain. He gets huge credit imo for forcing out the old guard. Last summer's changeover was incredible. Yeah he's not a high roller owner but is that his fault or the league's?

It's hard because i agree with you, but I'm so pissed at the same time
 

Sinurgy

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I'm not convinced Chayka actually knows hockey very well and his analytics are mostly useless without that. I'll keep saying it, EVERYONE uses analytics, Chayka is not some guru with a tool no one else possess. That's why guys like him are usually lower on the totem pole, they crunch numbers and give the data to GM's who do know hockey and can take that data into consideration along with several other factors before making smart hockey decisions.

I'm not on the fire Chayka bus yet because as Muppet pointed out they'd likely just start the cycle again with another inexperienced GM (or arguably worse a very experienced GM who hasn't had success in 15 years) and they'd come in, clean house and the franchise would be right back at the f***ing start. So unless the Coyotes finally land a whale for an owner, stick with Chayka and hope his vision can take shape in the next couple of years and more importantly hope that vision actually leads to a perennially successful hockey team.

Oh and last but not least, hopefully he learns a less in humility. I think the dude has read too much of his own press and is starting to believe he's some sort of wunderkind. It sort of reminds me of the tech bubble at the turn of the century when every 20 something who could work a computer was treated like a f***ing genius (source: I was a 20 something that knew computers). Chayka was fortunate to ride the first few waves of the burgeoning analytics trend but jig is up now man, everyone is riding those waves, you're going to have to bring more to the table then that if you're going to be a GM at the NHL level.

End rant.
 

Matias Maccete

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I give Chayka another year. I'd like to see things play out further before we start over again.
Agreed. I think one more year for Chayka and Tocchet is reasonable. Next year there are no more excuses. all of their guys should in place and healthy.
 

Jakey53

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Strome with 36 points in the middle of his 36th game with the Hawks. Just unreal. If we don't make the playoffs next year, Chakya is definitely in the hot seat, if he isn't already. Him getting fired would not surprise me. I feel like someone needs to be punished for this. Domi and now Strome.
The only saving grace for Chayka is that we got two damn good hockey players in those trades.
 

Jakey53

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I’m less depressed at how well he’s done as a Blackhawk per se but rather that he has 48pts in his first 82 NHL games. If we would have just let the kid play, and given him legit opportunities we might have a different story to tell.

With Domi and Strome both being around 0.90ppg on their new teams, John Chayka deserves to be fired. He took his shot and he missed. Big time. Twice. He doesn’t deserve to be an NHL GM right now. He’s absolutely done enough to justify being fired immediately.
I disagree. He got us two really good hockey players in return. I still take Chucky over Domi, and if Schmaltz was playing that trade wouldn't look as bad, in fact Schmaltz was out scoring Strome before he got hurt. Centers are much more valuable than wingers and I have said it before, trading Strome will come back and haunt us for years. IF, next year mid season we are still out of play off contention, then Chayka will be on the hot seat. This could all change if we get a new owner.
 

Jakey53

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Yup. This is a results oriented league. Chayka got taken to the cleaners by Chicago. Maybe by Montreal as well.
I still think that Strome had outlived his welcome, but the return was not equal to what we gave up.
I don't think so. Schmaltz was out scoring Strome before his injury and I still take Chucky over Domi. Where I don't like the Strome trade is the position the two players play and the way they used Strome by putting him in a position to fail. Deep down we all knew Strome was going to be traded because of RT's comments and where he played Strome. I put the blame square on RT's shoulders
 
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Jakey53

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Chicago, with Strome's help, has held Ottawa to ONLY 7 goals tonight. 2 teams fighting for GAA leadership award this year:)
All that matters is who has the W. :) You Strome haters keep on digging your grave deeper and deeper.
 
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rt

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I disagree. He got us two really good hockey players in return. I still take Chucky over Domi, and if Schmaltz was playing that trade wouldn't look as bad, in fact Schmaltz was out scoring Strome before he got hurt. Centers are much more valuable than wingers and...
1.
You do mention this regularly. Can you explain why you like Galchenyuk better? Domi seems to be separating himself pretty clearly offensively this season. His points per game is 21% higher. And you just said yourself centers are more valuable. Domi is playing center while Galchenyuk is not. So if Domi is more productive and playing the more valuable position, where does Galchenyuk close the gap? What is he bringing to the table that mitigates those factors and makes him surpass Domi?

2.
As far as Schmaltz outproducing Strome before the injury, do you think Schmaltz would have upped his production from 0.82 to 0.98? Unlike Chicago’s total team offense trend since the trade, I don’t see indications from the rest of the the Coyotes squad that this would be likely. I think it’s pretty safe to say that given Strome’s offensive explosion, he’d have surpassed Schmaltz by now, regardless of the LTIR situation. What makes you think Schmaltz would have become 16% more productive over this span?
 

Jakey53

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1.
You do mention this regularly. Can you explain why you like Galchenyuk better? Domi seems to be separating himself pretty clearly offensively this season. His points per game is 21% higher. And you just said yourself centers are more valuable. Domi is playing center while Galchenyuk is not. So if Domi is more productive and playing the more valuable position, where does Galchenyuk close the gap? What is he bringing to the table that mitigates those factors and makes him surpass Domi?

2.
As far as Schmaltz outproducing Strome before the injury, do you think Schmaltz would have upped his production from 0.82 to 0.98? Unlike Chicago’s total team offense trend since the trade, I don’t see indications from the rest of the the Coyotes squad that this would be likely. I think it’s pretty safe to say that given Strome’s offensive explosion, he’d have surpassed Schmaltz by now, regardless of the LTIR situation. What makes you think Schmaltz would have become 16% more productive over this span?
Domi is playing on a team superior to the Coyotes this year. Montreal in general is playing way over their head. Chucky is our best forward, something Domi never was. We all saw Domi play C, enough said there.
I didn't like the Strome trade, but we got a very good player in return, so I can't see how that trade is grounds for a firing.
 

rt

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Domi is playing on a team superior to the Coyotes this year. Montreal in general is playing way over their head. Chucky is our best forward, something Domi never was. We all saw Domi play C, enough said there.
I didn't like the Strome trade, but we got a very good player in return, so I can't see how that trade is grounds for a firing.
It’s not enough said. He’s playing C on a team better than ours. He’s their best forward. He’s better than any forward we have. Including Galchenyuk. You’re not presenting a case here at all.
 

The don godfather

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I think chayka is on the hot seat with fenten for the 2 biggest debacle trades we have seen in years. Very hard for them to distant themselves from this mess. The only question remains which disaster is worse?
 

The Feckless Puck

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I don't really get the Barroway disdain. He gets huge credit imo for forcing out the old guard. Last summer's changeover was incredible. Yeah he's not a high roller owner but is that his fault or the league's?

Getting rid of Anthony LeBlanc and the Caravan of Pretenders automatically earns Andy Barroway my gratitude, no matter what else ends up happening.
 

Jamieh

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Getting rid of Anthony LeBlanc and the Caravan of Pretenders automatically earns Andy Barroway my gratitude, no matter what else ends up happening.
It seems we are developing a pattern of cheering for the new guy(s) because of the old guy(s) yet we never to get to just celebrating the present owners??
 

The Feckless Puck

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It seems we are developing a pattern of cheering for the new guy(s) because of the old guy(s) yet we never to get to just celebrating the present owners??

In some ways that's a pretty normal cycle for sports fandom, because sports fandom is fundamentally a "what have you done for me lately?" enterprise these days.

But in Barroway's case, there's enough about his assumption of Coyotes' ownership that is sketchy for me to be skeptical about him and his motivations. I'll be honest (and somewhat tinfoil-hatty) - I think Barroway was, and is, the Board of Governors' shadow puppet, and I think that he was brought in because the NHL was keeping tabs on IceArizona and not liking at all what they were seeing. Not in a million years do I think Barroway had - or has - enough liquidity to be an NHL team owner long-term.

That said, having seen the receipts of the IceArizona group, I'd rather have Andy Placeholder running things right now than Tony the Mouth and his crew of High Plains Grifters. People have told me that, whatever their issues with noncompliance and bloviation and so forth were, IA should be celebrated for keeping the Coyotes in Arizona. I disagree. They weaseled their way into ownership by taking advantage of a city that was over the NHL's barrel in the eleventh hour and then sat back expecting their dodge to pay off with the citizenry none the wiser. But like many of their type, they put too much faith in their own con job and not enough thought into the consequences of their brazenness. If you ask me, Barroway was Bettman's sleeper agent once LeBlanc et al. went off script.

I'd love to have an owner to celebrate; I just haven't had one who has been in the game for hockey and for the market, rather than some sort of intrigue. Moyes was the Accidental Owner who came on board with Ellman to help grease the skids for Westgate, and then Ellman left him holding the bag; Jerry never wanted to own a hockey team but he kept at it so long as he could use the team for writeoffs. Then it was the NHL, then IceArizona, now Barroway. What is there to cheer for in that succession of Ulterior Motivations with Shallow Pockets?

Man, am I ever envious of Las Vegas. If there was a blueprint for how a nontraditional hockey market would succeed from Day One, the Golden Knights were the ones who created it. Comparing our market's story to theirs is a recipe for bitterness and remorse.
 

Jamieh

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In some ways that's a pretty normal cycle for sports fandom, because sports fandom is fundamentally a "what have you done for me lately?" enterprise these days.

But in Barroway's case, there's enough about his assumption of Coyotes' ownership that is sketchy for me to be skeptical about him and his motivations. I'll be honest (and somewhat tinfoil-hatty) - I think Barroway was, and is, the Board of Governors' shadow puppet, and I think that he was brought in because the NHL was keeping tabs on IceArizona and not liking at all what they were seeing. Not in a million years do I think Barroway had - or has - enough liquidity to be an NHL team owner long-term.

That said, having seen the receipts of the IceArizona group, I'd rather have Andy Placeholder running things right now than Tony the Mouth and his crew of High Plains Grifters. People have told me that, whatever their issues with noncompliance and bloviation and so forth were, IA should be celebrated for keeping the Coyotes in Arizona. I disagree. They weaseled their way into ownership by taking advantage of a city that was over the NHL's barrel in the eleventh hour and then sat back expecting their dodge to pay off with the citizenry none the wiser. But like many of their type, they put too much faith in their own con job and not enough thought into the consequences of their brazenness. If you ask me, Barroway was Bettman's sleeper agent once LeBlanc et al. went off script.

I'd love to have an owner to celebrate; I just haven't had one who has been in the game for hockey and for the market, rather than some sort of intrigue. Moyes was the Accidental Owner who came on board with Ellman to help grease the skids for Westgate, and then Ellman left him holding the bag; Jerry never wanted to own a hockey team but he kept at it so long as he could use the team for writeoffs. Then it was the NHL, then IceArizona, now Barroway. What is there to cheer for in that succession of Ulterior Motivations with Shallow Pockets?

Man, am I ever envious of Las Vegas. If there was a blueprint for how a nontraditional hockey market would succeed from Day One, the Golden Knights were the ones who created it. Comparing our market's story to theirs is a recipe for bitterness and remorse.
It has been a long road hey. Reading this it set it that I bought season tickets in 09 and here we are pretty much 10 seasons later in the same place with little progress.
 
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The Feckless Puck

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It has been a long road hey. Reading this it set it that I bought season tickets in 09 and here we are pretty much 10 seasons later in the same place with little progress.

I don't know how many people in the hockey world know (or care) exactly how long our franchise has been mired in this cycle of hopelessness. Whenever I mention it outside of HF, I inevitably get back responses like, "Come on, man, you want a bad time, look at Bill Wirtz in Chicago or Harold Ballard in Toronto" and so forth. It's like people think that context, like hockey, doesn't belong in the desert. :sarcasm:

I'll tell you something, though. I respect our hardiest hard-core Coyotes fans more than any fans in any other sport. What we've been through with this team and the past decade-plus has been absolute capital-letters Hell, and anyone who has stuck with it for this long deserves my respect, no matter how we might disagree on particulars.
 

Jamieh

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I don't know how many people in the hockey world know (or care) exactly how long our franchise has been mired in this cycle of hopelessness. Whenever I mention it outside of HF, I inevitably get back responses like, "Come on, man, you want a bad time, look at Bill Wirtz in Chicago or Harold Ballard in Toronto" and so forth. It's like people think that context, like hockey, doesn't belong in the desert. :sarcasm:

I'll tell you something, though. I respect our hardiest hard-core Coyotes fans more than any fans in any other sport. What we've been through with this team and the past decade-plus has been absolute capital-letters Hell, and anyone who has stuck with it for this long deserves my respect, no matter how we might disagree on particulars.
Yeah as a life long Leaf's fan I have watched 40 years of a team tripping up in money getting nowhere and now I'm 10 years into a team trying to sew a line up together just to stay in existance. I must like pain!!
 

The Feckless Puck

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Yeah as a life long Leaf's fan I have watched 40 years of a team tripping up in money getting nowhere and now I'm 10 years into a team trying to sew a line up together just to stay in existance. I must like pain!!

If you declare for the Senators or Oilers next, then you've achieved the Masochism Trifecta! :D
 

Jamieh

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If you declare for the Senators or Oilers next, then you've achieved the Masochism Trifecta! :D
You know what? I have zero to complain about as you just made me realize plenty of my AZ golfing Buddies are Oiler fans who have adopted the Coyote's. Jesus how can Mcdavid be wasted like that?? Not even making playoffs??
 

mpir3

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I'm personally ok with the trades if the team honestly feels the players here now are better fit towards the direction the team is going or if there was an underlying issue behind the scenes... However there's really nothing done to reassure the fan base this, etc. Just the same ole player leaves and excels elsewhere over and over again. Could you imagine if these trades were made in a major market? The lack of media pressure here in my opinion enables those in power to abuse it without having to answer to anyone. That's were my frustration lies...not in the players we received in exchange or how the past players are doing elsewhere.
 

ParisSaintGermain

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Jan 19, 2004
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I am so conflicted about all this, and I need to lie down.

Because Strome is one of ours and Schmaltz is not yet. Funny old thing, emotional attachment. It will take many points and plays for Schmaltz to replace the HOPE and promise that offered Strome whilst witnessing him growing up.

Because this almost feels a bit of a repeat of Domi and Gally. Twice in a row, oh boy. Is there enough salt for this ever growing wound?

Because bold pick Barrett Hayton is around and even if I am a Zadina sort of guys, and do believe Zadina will eventually get it done, I do think Barrett will do wonders for us. That was bold but as much as I honestly often enjoy Chayka talk, some of his words are too decisive at times and things he said at the draft or during the trades, I could have done without - so alienating on hindsight.

Because Chayka.... well I sort of still like him. Sorry. How conflicting it is to feel that I want to be patient rather than hopeful with this gentleman! But hey, just guts talk. He signed RT for 4 years, this is year 2. I have hated that they gave up on Strome before a full NHL season, and lesson here is that project needs not aborting too early; so I hope we will see year 3 of the RT Chayka combo.

But man, even RT is so hard to follow. It is unbelievable that this team is still in playoffs range despite all those injuries. Yet this lad is composing what seems like ridiculous lines and playing times. Is there some RT's brilliance in this or is it just a coincidence with this mad Western conference season?

I am so conflicted about all this. Though I believe it won't take long to get final clarity in all this. Another trade, another injury, another contract, another random line combo..... Let's roll year 3 and see.

Ps. Of course I am also expecting the team to be bought, Chayka to be fired and we will never see year 3. Then next season I will probably write about how conflicting I am about not seeing year 3. Life of a Coyote fan, Yes, Again and forever. Not a bad fan life really.

BRING BACK THE KACHINA FULL TIME
 
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