Confirmed with Link: Coyotes trade Strome and Perlini for Nick Schmaltz - Part Deux

Discussion in 'Arizona Coyotes' started by TheLegend, Dec 19, 2018.

  1. ParisSaintGermain

    ParisSaintGermain Registered User

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    I agree and disagree at the same time. I think statistically it will be a wash but on the impact on the franchise it won't be.

    Domi has been the absolute catalyst to Montreal renaissance, he totally carried that team the first two months when Price and Drouin were terrible and Weber injured. Montreal was getting ready for a Bergevin slaughtering in the off season, it was 99% sure to happen.

    But Kotkaniemi to an extent and Domi changed all that. Domi is not a point per game guy, but I suspect he will get some key goals going forward and for a very long time. I hope Schmaltz will be the same, but it feels more of an unknown at this point - aside from the statistical ouput (which is nothing to moan about, he has been great).
     
  2. RemoAZ

    RemoAZ We suck AGAIN!

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  3. OriginalJetsCoyotes

    OriginalJetsCoyotes Registered User

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  4. ducky

    ducky Registered User

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    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  5. Lawson of Anarchy

    Lawson of Anarchy Registered User

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    I see what you did there...
     
  6. RemoAZ

    RemoAZ We suck AGAIN!

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    No it's not Strome. First it was Kane bouncing pucks off of him for points. Now he's playing with perennial all stars Kahun and DeBrincat. He just shows up and gets points. The Wendy's GM is a genius. Strome is garbage.
     
  7. BUX7PHX

    BUX7PHX Registered User

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    However, there are multiple instances of a player like McDavid, Marner, Eichel, and Matthews where very early on in their rookie seasons, they were asked to be on the lower lines. This could have been to make sure not to overwhelm them and make sure they understood pace of the game and stayed within their lanes (i.e. didn't resort to getting out of position defensively and played smart, effective hockey as opposed to being told - "Do it all - you're a top pick!!!"). Funny how staying within their lanes early on actually showed their readiness to move up into certain lines. If there was inconsistency or anything else like that, it would actually work against those individuals and they would probably have spent additional time on the lower lines until proving their value to move up.

    That last sentence appears to be exactly the case with Strome. Maybe we could have added some PP time or something to see if it opened his game up. However, the results were middling and the front office probably saw it as being he didn't want to adjust to certain measures within our play, and that wound up giving some the idea that his attitude was out of line with his abilities.
     
  8. BUX7PHX

    BUX7PHX Registered User

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    Interesting - he actually shot the puck more with us, but didn't have quite the results. A little surprising. I also wonder how much of it has to do with the types of goals scored. All 3 that he was involved in were essentially 2-on-1s off of either poor Detroit turnovers or misplays on their defensemen by allowing players to get around them.

    But, he is getting his points. Good for him.
     
  9. Jakey53

    Jakey53 Registered User

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    You still don't get it. Name me one, just ONE Coyote prospect that has had the success Strome has had at every level that wasn't given a chance to play with the better Coyote players. You keep on talking about effort, attitude etc. was the reason Strome was not put into a position to succeed. Hindsight and assumption is all you are going on. Hell, you are two thousand miles away and you are talking like you attended every practice.
     
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  10. Jakey53

    Jakey53 Registered User

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    Look, I think Schmaltz is a fine player, and quite frankly I was surprised that Chicago made that trade considering how poor Perlini had looked and with Strome struggles, but I guess Chicago had a feeling, knew, or lucked out with the way Strome has turned out. I'm not mad of the trade, rather the way RT handled Strome.
     
  11. Jakey53

    Jakey53 Registered User

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    2 on 1's. Detroit turnovers. I guess that line was doing something right to get those. Man, IF Kane was out there when this happened it would be ALL because of Kane. Strome, DeBrincat and Kahun have been given the opportunity and are running with it. You are right about one thing, "good for him".
     
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  12. SniperHF

    SniperHF Administrator In The Coat

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    One random note, I think there's an instinct to not blame Chayka or whomever for Schmaltz getting hurt. It's certainly true that the injury on the ice wasn't foreseeable.
    But the facts on the ground dictate that we're out a near PPG Cish/W for at least 42 games.

    That kind of thing works fine if you're talking about a fantasy league trade or some high minded idea of trade value in the abstract for arguing with people on the trade board. When talking about the team actually succeeding it's a big problem.

    We're out a huge portion of the value in the trade (we were supposedly trading hope performance for now performance and mitigating the potential Strome busts + the style fit of Schmaltz). Getting a productive player on a bargain dollar figure for 5 months was part of the package. That's poof, gone. About late first value in those 5 months alone if you look at what rentals go for.

    Sometimes the conservative play bites you in the ass. It may not be fair since it's an injury but it's going to count when the season is done.
    I'm not typically a fan of "value" type metrics like point shares, WAR, or GAR or whatnot. But that's one way of considering it and right now we're getting our asses handed to us on that score. The value in a trade is only worth it if you see it on the ice at some point. Next year after we have to pay Schmaltz the value proposition diminishes extensively.
     
  13. RemoAZ

    RemoAZ We suck AGAIN!

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    I think Schmaltz has a lot of talent but he's a soft, perimeter winger. While no one would classify Strome as tough, he's a big Center that will get bigger and he goes to the net consistently. Talk about speed all you want. We need centers and we need guys that go to the net a hell of a lot more than another soft, perimeter player. There are just so many reasons a team in our situation shouldn't have made this deal especially at this point of Strome's development. I'd have loved Schmaltz as a player targeted to play with Strome. Keller, Strome, Schmaltz? Yes please but we know that would have never happened. God forbid Strome was given an opportunity on a scoring line here.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  14. Sinurgy

    Sinurgy 1) Rebuild 2) Repeat

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    When I get down to it I think what really irks me is that after all the rebuilding and what not, the Coyotes still don't have a bona fide star player much less more than one. They don't even have one in the system. That's supposed to be the one thing you get in exchange for several seasons of being a bottom feeder, high end talent, the kind of player that other fans want to watch. The Coyotes don't have that player, they don't have that player in the system and they likely won't have that player after this draft either. When it comes to a star player in a Coyotes uniform, there's essentially no hope in sight and that's not supposed to happen after a rebuild.
     
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  15. hbk

    hbk Registered User Sponsor

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    Blame the lottery.
     
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  16. BUX7PHX

    BUX7PHX Registered User

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    And assumption is all that you are going on when stating that it is the coach that didn't put him in positions to succeed. First Tippett, then Tocchet. If we use the same argument with Duclair, but then dont use the same argument with Strome, then we are setting a double standard.

    I was bringing up the 2-on-1 scenarios because every one of those were clear odd-man rushes, which is a situation that clearly favors the offense, and they were able to capitalize. Do it in 5-on-5 cycle game and it means far more to me when evaluating a player. Brutal turnovers that lead to odd man rushes shouldn't be the norm. Another question that I have, since you bring up top line talent so much - is Kahun considered top line talent? DeBrincat? I think that DeBrincat is closer to top line talent than most, but how is Kahun any different from the players that we played Strome with? Kahun was undrafted and played in the German League. He could have been the equivalent of Mattias Plachta, yet somehow, Kahun has success with Strome when the question is asked of why Strome didnt play with top line talent

    What does it say when he produces without top line talent? That he may not have put the effort in here? I would say that is a real possibility. That he struggled in Tocchet's system? Also a real possibility. Did we try to make him earn it? Yes. Look at his defensive play on the Red Wings 2nd goal. It was awful. I think his chemistry and friendship with DeBrincat goes a long way, but also that he was not happy in AZ and it showed in some of his efforts.

    Now, the system can be questioned, but I wouldn't be in favor of having multiple systems in place to suit the players. The reason why is that the game is dynamic - injuries and streaks push players up and down the lineup. While it would be nice to have the top line play this one system, line 2 plays a different system, and our bottom lines play something different, what happens if we have a poor game and we decide to move people around to try something new? The 3rd liner who is used to doing something in one way now has to do it differently on a second line, etc. It's the same reason why a 4-3 and 3-4 defense in the NFL require different players to fit the scheme. Teams don't have the luxury of picking players and then choosing schemes based on various line combos - that's way too much to fill a player's head with. So you make the scheme, and get the players to fit that scheme. Strome didnt fit the scheme. Not of Tippett, not of Tocchet. But we can't change things around to satisfy one player when 19 others are capable of getting it.
     
  17. MIG

    MIG Undocumented User

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    Part of it, but also blame those responsible for the picks.

    Not every NHL star was drafted top 3.
     
  18. hbk

    hbk Registered User Sponsor

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    Fair.

    But we arguably should have been drafting at 2 in 2015. 4th in 2016. 4th in 2017. And 3rd last year.

    Add Eichel and/or Tkachuk into our roster. Feel better?
     
  19. cobra427

    cobra427 Registered User

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    Debrinct has 53 points in 56 games, that is top line talent, Kane 81 points. PP minutes and 90% of Stromes production is with those 2 players.
     
  20. The Feckless Puck

    The Feckless Puck Registered Loser

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    Figures that the one time we get the good brother, we trade him away because our coaches don't want to help him develop his game. :laugh:
     
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  21. Jagged Ice

    Jagged Ice Durban Poison

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    I picked up Strome on my fantasy team as soon as we traded him to the Blackhawks. I also have Keller on my team. With all the games today, I had to bench a player. Keller it is.
     
  22. BUX7PHX

    BUX7PHX Registered User

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    My question was more based toward a player like Kahun. A player like Kahun is exactly the type of player that we paired Strome with consistently on lines here. DeBrincat being a driving force on that line is helpful - sorry that we don't have a DeBrincat behind a player like Keller. Sorry that we didn't put Keller and Strome together with Galchenyuk at the risk of throwing so many eggs into our top line but leaving our 3rd line as a handicapped line without any threats on there. Strome should be viewed as a player that the other team has to worry about, not one that went invisible, regardless of what line that he played on.
     
  23. ducky

    ducky Registered User

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    Not arguing that Strome played less well in Phoenix. He is absolutely partly to blame. He recently commented after a game that hockey is fun to play again. That can speak to a culture/system but also to not having success early in his NHL career.

    I am mad that the Domi - Strome combo that looked great to end the season last year never even got a chance.

    I am mad that Chayka said all the right things for 2 years - talked about patience, physical maturity, developing the player the right way...then traded him (and added another top pick on top of it).

    I am mad that the organization just cant seem to get out of its own way. Repeatedly our top prospects have bombed / demanded out / gone on to succeed elsewhere.

    I am mad that we suffered through all the HF talk of what a horrible draft pick Strome was only to have it replaced by what a horrible trade Chayka made and what a terrible development team the Coyotes are.
     
  24. Grimes

    Grimes Registered User

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    Good post ducky. Pretty much sums up my thoughts. It's just been burn after burn this year (hell just about every year being a Coyotoes fan). Some lotto luck would feel good, but clearly we cant do much with top prospects anyways.
     
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  25. Dirty Old Man

    Dirty Old Man Wassup b*****s! Sponsor

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    I did a quick calculation recently on how unlucky we've been, and, to be frank - it wasn't that bad. All the lotteries we've been in the last 15 years, the chances of missing all of them were something like 30%. So, yeah, it was more likely to have hit one than not, but not some sort of catastrophic powerball-level chance of never winning one.

    I once lost 10 coin flips in a row to decide who was to pay for lunches. 0.1%. 1 in 1000. *that* was catastrophic.
     

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