Um, I saw when the Jays clinched the pennant every time. What in God's name are you talking about? Here is a hint for you: when a team clinches the pennant, they do not play the national anthem.
Um, I saw when the Jays clinched the pennant every time. What in God's name are you talking about? Here is a hint for you: when a team clinches the pennant, they do not play the national anthem.
Hey kdb, here is a dirty little secret for you, but you have to promise not to tell anyone else here on the boards, okay?
Here it is: with the price of playing hockey having been what it is for many many years, most of my fellow Canadian hockey fans have not actually played much hockey, either. I have, although I was fortunate to grow up in an earlier, less expensive time, with access to ponds. It might surprise some to know that there are not exactly a huge amount of ponds in the centre of the hoceky universe here in southern Ontario. Hockey is pretty much restricted such that, unless you are middle class or upper middle class or higher, you are pretty well out of luck.
Bear of Bad News
Your Third or Fourth Favorite HFBoards Admin
- Sep 27, 2005
- 13,491
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I tell someone that they're being a jerk, and you basically say that it's okay because Yankee fans are jerks?
Right, because we're all Yankees fans down here.
I tell someone that they're being a jerk, and you basically say that it's okay because Yankee fans are jerks?
Right, because we're all Yankees fans down here.
YANKEES SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I mostly agree with you except that with hockey it's such an extreme. Most people in the US have touched a football at some point in their life - played a game of touch football at a picnic or in gym class, etc. I'm not talking organized playing. Just having some basic familiarity with how to play and some basis to relate to those playing. And that's my point, the vast majority of fans in the US haven't played and maybe that's why hockey is much more popular in Canada (to some degree obvious and true).
My question still stands, are there any other major pro teams in other sports in places where virtually NOONE locally played the game growing up? The NHL has showed this isn't a complete obstacle, but I think it's something that matters and maybe the league should think twice before approving a team in a small/medium low-lattitude market when there are too many teams already. Putting teams in LA, Dallas, Philadelphia - makes sense to me.
Is it important to the NHL to be part of the mainstream US sports discussion? Is TV money important? I'm just not convinced the current NHL model is viable or at the least not good enough to keep the league near the top tier of US sports. Maybe this is all okay, so be it. Hockey was my favorite sport in the late 90s. Last year I lived across the street from an arena and didn't make one game. Lately I've only tuned in for the late games in the Stanley Cup and major international competitions. I'm just trying to get a sense of where everyone thinks the NHL should be headed?
Or else a lot of Canadians didn't want to play organized hockey growing up, because they didn't want all the early morning games and weekend tournaments.
I did play streethockey with friends a lot, and even in the Arizona and anywhere you can have a good game of hockey in the driveway with your friends if you want to.
As long as young hockey fans can find the sticks, puck or ball for the game, and nets ( though you can figure out something for that if you can't find a net ) the game can get a young following
HansH
Unwelcome Spectre
I can't quite blame him -- as soon as I saw the link posted and the thread title, I knew that it was only a matter of time before the Winnipegers came to demand "their" team back, whether the article was accurate or not, and ignoring the fact that their arena could only fit 400 more fans per game. Given the irrationality of most of the posts in that vein, I can't quite bring myself to say that I wouldn't have struck pre-emptively in his place.
Phoenix got its franchise from Winnipeg since it was sooooooo needed in Phoenix. If they are losing money tough luck. You got your dream team enjoy it. Don't cry to the world about losing money. The NHL doesn't want to hear bad news and neither do fans anywhere. Since Phoenix is such a wonderful place as a hockey market compared to anywhere in Canada you folks should have no problem recovering those losses in the future. The NHL needs Phoenix don't you know, it is all part of the Bettman Sunbelt Strategy. No Non traditional hockey market left behind.
Rise from the Ashes
Price defies corsi
KeyserSoze81
Registered User
The costs of organized ice hockey are damn prohibitive. I remember looking enviously at goalie equipment... but who is able to drop >$600 dollars just to get the necessary equipment?! Road hockey, however, is huge. In hockey popular areas, you can really see this popping up. For example, Buffalo has a ton of kids playing on driveways since the Sabres resurgence. Just a thought, as thats how I was able to get my hockey fix as a kid.
Bear of Bad News
Your Third or Fourth Favorite HFBoards Admin
- Sep 27, 2005
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Sotnos
Registered User
People claiming to be Tampa fans that want the team contracted/moved? Uh, ok.
You honestly have no idea what you're talking about if you think the majority of the fanbase in Florida is retired Canadians (not Canadiens).
I never said I wanted it contracted. Just that if the NHL had grown in a more natural pattern that it probably wouldn't have come to Tampa (say in the pattern of football clubs in Europe with participation at the base). I was just making the point that there was something of a fanbase of people more familar with the game in Florida than say Nashville, not that the majority of fans are Canadians. You and noone else have tried to answer my previous questions.
I can say as a Tampa fan that there have been articles in the paper recently about losses >$5 million being intolerable to our Detroit-based owner and speculation from the local media that the team might be for sale. It's hard to find owners that will lose money forever. If Tampa really is losing money, that's troubling considering how "good" the attendance ranks. Noone has convined me that the current NHL financial model is sustainable. So why should I start watching again?
Sotnos
Registered User
I don't think it matters much if you watch or not, but if you're basing your sports viewing preferences on financial stability, you're better off as an NFL fan.
No kidding putting a team in Tampa wasn't natural progression. Read Espo's book. It was about saying "yeah we got it" when the League wanted the $50 million expansion fees. That's irrelevant at this point. The League needs to be doing what it can to support the teams that are already here.
I put some good links in the attendance thread about Tampa's financial situation, and in one of those links Ron Campbell (assuming you know who that is) said the team is not for sale, so I'm not sure where you're getting that from.
No kidding putting a team in Tampa wasn't natural progression. Read Espo's book. It was about saying "yeah we got it" when the League wanted the $50 million expansion fees. That's irrelevant at this point. The League needs to be doing what it can to support the teams that are already here.
I put some good links in the attendance thread about Tampa's financial situation, and in one of those links Ron Campbell (assuming you know who that is) said the team is not for sale, so I'm not sure where you're getting that from.
The team denied it but something motivated the Tampa Tribune to run a story (outside the sports section)
http://www.boston.com/sports/hockey/bruins/articles/2007/02/11/joining_the_seller_dwellers/?page=3
The report was Davidson (non-local) was willing to lose $5 million a year forever. But they are losing more and consultants were supposedly hired to "maximize the value" of the team. Not the most reassuring situation though I'm not too troubled yet. I've been away from Tampa for a while (was there for the Stanley Cup) but am now returning. Right now there are 3 things keeping me away from being a close follower of the team - the NHL has too many teams for me, I'm not sure what the financial model going forward really is, and the league has done a horrible job of marketing star players to the US national audience.
I'm in no position to know all the details to say what the NHL should or shouldn't do, but for now I'm following the NHL from a distance and am disappointed with the NHL not being part of the mainstream US sports culture.
You know that I was talking about. I was referring to the first time the Jays won the pennant in 1985. It made national news at the time, as Yankee fans booed the Canadian national anthem. Perhaps you have forgotten?
Right, because we're all Yankees fans down here.
Just like we're all redneck xenophobes uphere.
pot, meet kettle....
johnny canuckistan
Registered User
- Nov 14, 2006
- 2,139
- 0
I'm surprised the 'Yotes are only losing $30 million. Maybe there's hope for the franchise after all.
Sotnos
Registered User
That's not from the Trib, that's the Boston Globe paraphrasing and drawing conclusions based on an article from the St. Pete Times. I don't see what the team was denying, there are quotes in the original from the team president. I linked it in the attendance thread. To go from what was actually published to "they're going to look at moving to KC" is a huge leap of logic IMO. Scaremongering at its finest. Unfortunately, people around here will pick that up and run with it as fact.
It's certainly your choice, but I can't think you're too much of a fan if those sorts of things influence your decision to follow a team or not. I think NFL owners are pretty scummy (and have a license to print money, off the backs of local taxpayers for the most part), I still watch because I enjoy the product. Guess I just have weak ethics!
That's not from the Trib, that's the Boston Globe paraphrasing and drawing conclusions based on an article from the St. Pete Times. I don't see what the team was denying, there are quotes in the original from the team president. I linked it in the attendance thread. To go from what was actually published to "they're going to look at moving to KC" is a huge leap of logic IMO. Scaremongering at its finest. Unfortunately, people around here will pick that up and run with it as fact.
It's certainly your choice, but I can't think you're too much of a fan if those sorts of things influence your decision to follow a team or not. I think NFL owners are pretty scummy (and have a license to print money, off the backs of local taxpayers for the most part), I still watch because I enjoy the product. Guess I just have weak ethics!
I personally read an article, maybe it was the St Pete Times (was visiting back home and picked up a paper). I never suggested KC was a possibility IIRC. Just that the owner is losing money and some think he might be positioning himself to sell. Others can make the leap. I don't know the terms of the arena lease to make any leap myself. And anyways attendance is good, the team is good/popular - so I personally don't see a market worth a move.
For me following a team is pretty all or none. 80 games a year is a significant commitment, and right now they're crowded out by other entertainment options. And it's more about not getting interested in the opponents than the Lightning. For me 30 teams waters things down. I'll keep watching Olympics/World Cup and probably the Stanley Cup. But that may be it.
howlincoyote2k1
Registered User
Do you have an argument saying otherwise? I mean, other than call us a bunch of whiny elitists?
I have seen very little in a decade that would prove to me that Phoenix can support hockey. I though Gretzky might help but...
Yeah, shame on Phoenix for not supporting a joke of a team that continuously finishes last in their division who trades away all their (few) big name players near the end of the season as they go into tanking mode.
Obviously they should sellout every night just because of who one of the men on the bench is! Who cares if most of the people in the stands can't even see him! It's the thought being in the same building as him!
[/lack of common sense]
Bear of Bad News
Your Third or Fourth Favorite HFBoards Admin
- Sep 27, 2005
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I called bleed_oil a xenophobe.
How you managed to extend that to me calling all Canadians xenophobes is beyond me.
Perhaps you can explain how you managed to confuse one poster with an entire country.
Ted Hoffman
The other Rick Zombo
- Dec 15, 2002
- 29,132
- 8,536
I'd love to see how many people aren't following a pro sports team for reasons like this. I'll be vastly impressed if anyone can find 5.
I certainly hope you don't follow MLB (162 games) or the NBA (82 games); I wonder how many games in a season suddenly becomes a "significant commitment" - 50? 40? 35? 30? 16?
Not that I think you're making your reasons up for not following the sport/team, but I have never heard another person cite those reasons for not following a sport/team. Never. If those are really your reasons, ...
do you think you could quit staring at the couple fallen trees and still enjoy the rest of the forest?
MAROONSRoad
f/k/a Ghost
Hey gscarpenter2002!
That's maybe true of the urban areas of southern Ontario where the weather is not really that cooperative for outdoor rinks, but not so much the case in northern Ontario, much of Quebec and western Canada outside the coastal BC area. It certainly wasn't the case where I grew up in Winnipeg: every boy in my elementary school had hockey equipment by grade 4. We'd play for fun on outdoor rinks (sans full equipment) after school almost every day in the winter. Not everyone played in formal leagues, but those of us that did would play games/hold practices in the indoor rinks at least a few hours each week at no huge cost. It's the same today when I visit the city. The amount of community and private outdoor rinks on the praries as well as indoor/covered rinks is mind boggling and makes playing/practicing relatively cheap whether you are a recreational or register players. So, maybe true for T.O. and environs, but to say that "most Canadian hockey fans" have not actually played much hockey is a gross exaggeration! It was actually a compulsory part of my PhysEd class at school for heaven sakes!
Regarding the numbers of those playing organized/competitive hockey, there are some interesting international comparative statistics available. Here are the IIHF 2004-2005 registration numbers, covered rinks and country population for the top 10 hockey producing countries:
1. Canada 543,390 Registered players, 3000 covered rinks, 32.8 Million pop.
2. USA, 435,737 Registered players, 2500 covered rinks, 295.7 Million pop.
3. Czech Rep. 83,589 Registered players, 136 rinks, 10.2 Million pop.
4. Russia 77, 202 Registered players, 142 rinks, 143.4 Million pop.
5. Sweden 67,747 Registered players, 301 rinks, 9.0 Million pop.
6. Finland 62,886 Registered players, 222 rinks, 5.2 Million pop.
7. Germany 30,334 Registered players, 153 rinks, 82.4 Million pop.
8. Switzerland, 25,106 Registered players, 70 rinks, 7.4 million pop.
9. Japan 20,540 Registered players, 117 rinks, 127.4 Million pop.
10. France 15,261 Registered players, 128 rinks, 60.6 Million pop.
Source:
http://www.iihf.com/iihf/member/Survey of players.pdf
Registered player per population, eg., 1 registered player per X persons:
1. Canada 60.4
2. Finland 82.7
3. Czech Republic 122.0
4. Sweden 132.8
5. Switzerland 294.8
6. USA 678.6
7. Russia 1857.5
8. Germany 2716.4
9. France 3970.9
10. Japan 6202.5
The comparison between the USA as a whole and Canada is not really fair as hockey is still a regional sport. For USA figures by state, see this site.
http://www.usahockey.com/membership/main_site/main/membership/0405_final_member/
BTW, here's the "Players Per Indoor Rink" ranking:
1. France - 119
2. USA - 174
3. Japan - 176
4. Canada - 181
5. Germany - 198
6. Sweden - 225
7. Finland - 283
8. Switzerland - 359
9. Russia - 544
10. Czech Rep. – 614
I guess all aspiring hockey players that hate the freezing cold should head for France!!
GHOST
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