TSN: Coyotes targeting Duchene, potential capital infusion with new ownership?

_Del_

Registered User
Jul 4, 2003
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Dvotak is a two-way C who put up 37 points (4th among forwards, 6th total) on a garbage squad before last year and is .44 ppg for his 176 game career including 20 games returning from injury late last season and a rookie season in which he put up 15-18-33.

.44 is better than or equal to Panik, Richardson, Grabner, Garland, Crouse, Fischer, et al and just below Stepan last season.

Is he a 2C? Not yet. At least not a good one, but he's definitely an NHL player at 23 yrs old, like he was at 21. I don't get the "trade Dvorak" talk, although I don't like the contract Chayka handed him.
 

rt

The Kinder, Gentler Version
May 13, 2004
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Stepan isn't going to be a 3C until Dvo or Hayton step up. Even if that happens, Dvo and Hayton are underpaid. Nothing changes in the two years we have of Stepan's contract.




Galchenyuk, Stepan, Goligoski, Demers, Hammer, Richardson, Grabner, to say nothing of Hossa and Ribiero all come off the books in "a couple years" or sooner. So I imagine we'll see a lot moves in the next "couple years" and our roster looks quite a bit different in the summer of 2021, wouldn't you?
Yes. This. Obviously this. I can't believe this argument.
 

rt

The Kinder, Gentler Version
May 13, 2004
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Ok, I understand. Who would you have as our 3C?
Dvorak. Clearly.

Keller-Duchene-Schmaltz
Galchenyuk-Stepan/Dvo-Hinostroza
Crouse-Dvorak/Stepan-Grabner
Cousins-Richardson-Fischer/Garland/Archibald

Dvorak can overtake Stepan when he actually proves that he can. All of Keller, Schmaltz, Galchenyuk, and Hinostroza are interchangeable as your top six wingers.

This is nine hundred and eighty seven thousand light years away from actually being a problem. There is nothing to figure out.
 
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rt

The Kinder, Gentler Version
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If Hayton can prove he deserves a spot over Cousins, Richardson, Fischer, Garland and/or Archibald, that AGAIN is not a very difficult situation to deal with. Richardson can move to wing and take the draws. Cousins, Fischer, and Garland have trade value. Archibald can be buried in Tucson.

How to arrange our 4th line has absolutely no bearing on adding a top line center. This is asinine.
 

rt

The Kinder, Gentler Version
May 13, 2004
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You ok with paying a player 4.5 mill. on your third line?
22 million for your entire center group is perfectly acceptable when you've got a dirt cheap winger group. Galchenyuk and Keller are about to get expensive. It's perfect timing as we can wait a year to decide what to do with Dvorak and Stepan. Most likely, Dvorak continues to progress and Stepan continues to slide. So trade Stepan for a third round pick in 12 months. Problem solved.
 

Jamieh

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Apr 25, 2012
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If Hayton can prove he deserves a spot over Cousins, Richardson, Fischer, Garland and/or Archibald, that AGAIN is not a very difficult situation to deal with. Richardson can move to wing and take the draws. Cousins, Fischer, and Garland have trade value. Archibald can be buried in Tucson.

How to arrange our 4th line has absolutely no bearing on adding a top line center. This is asinine.
It's the other way around, the adding of a 1st line center will have bearing on how you construct your 4th line. Reality is almost every team in the League has a 4th line making not much above minimum wage. But that really isn't an issue here, we have plenty of entry level guys and an established center making $1.25 million. That's the line.
 
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AZviaNJ

Setbacks, no Defeats
Mar 31, 2011
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Coyotes take a run Pavelski?

Instead of giving up assets to acquire Kessel and his remaining 3 year $6.8M/AAV, why not give Pavs 3 years/$7m. Pavs is a couple years older, but durable, and his ability to score from greasy areas would really help the PP and 5on5.
 

rt

The Kinder, Gentler Version
May 13, 2004
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It's the other way around, the adding of a 1st line center will have bearing on how you construct your 4th line. Reality is almost every team in the League has a 4th line making not much above minimum wage. But that really isn't an issue here, we have plenty of entry level guys and an established center making $1.25 million. That's the line.
You do not give a moment of thought to your stupid fourth line when you're adding a top line center. Who cares about the stupid fourth line? You don't buy a new Ferrari and then dive to six different gas stations trying to save two cents per gallon.
 

Jamieh

Registered User
Apr 25, 2012
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You do not give a moment of thought to your stupid fourth line when you're adding a top line center. Who cares about the stupid fourth line? You don't buy a new Ferrari and then dive to six different gas stations trying to save two cents per gallon.
If you don't give a thought to every line you should not be a GM. It was the 4th lines that were instrumental to playoff success this season. It's making sure you are ok there that ensures you have the money needed to better the 1st and 2nd lines.
 

rt

The Kinder, Gentler Version
May 13, 2004
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If you don't give a thought to every line you should not be a GM. It was the 4th lines that were instrumental to playoff success this season. It's making sure you are ok there that ensures you have the money needed to better the 1st and 2nd lines.
If Duchene wants to sign here, and we get a green light from the owner to make it happen, it does not present us with any challenges. It's very easy and very simple. No hard choices arise as a result.
 

BUX7PHX

Registered User
Jul 7, 2011
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Dvorak's contract is fine. If he is a 0.5 ppg player, then we have an average contract on our hands. Anything more and the contract is a steal.

For C depth, assuming we sign Duchene, we have Duchene for a long time and Hayton under his wing. I would much rather have the problem of finding 3rd or 4th line centers than trying to figure out a 2nd line wing or center situation.

In that vein, that is why we can think outside the box with Dvorak. Minnesota thought that Zucker was a comparable to bring up for a trade. No other player on our roster, save for OEL, Keller, Galchenyuk, or Schmaltz can bring that return alone. If we can use Dvorak to deal for a wing whom we can sign long term and get Galchenyuk extended, the top 6 is set for a significant amount of time:

Galchenyuk-Duchene-Keller
XXXX-Hayton-Schmaltz

That is a good top 6 to have in place, and then we continually supplement by keeping players like Crouse, Garland, Hinostroza, Fischer, and hit on one draft pick from the 3rd round on every single year.

I don't care to trade Dvorak for the sake of trading him. However, if it comes down to adding a wing in a reasonable deal and we need to give back a decent-sized contract to do so, Dvorak makes a lot of sense to include in a deal.
 

Jamieh

Registered User
Apr 25, 2012
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If Duchene wants to sign here, and we get a green light from the owner to make it happen, it does not present us with any challenges. It's very easy and very simple. No hard choices arise as a result.
And no one suggested it does? But we are having a conversation of things that will need to be addressed as we move forward. One of them was Stepan can't be your 3rd line center at his salary. Another is we probably can't afford to ice a 3rd D pairing that costs around $5 million. It doesn't mean we have to give up on a Duchene type but we do need to address Cap space while improving roster . A roster and Cap are fluid, getting ahead of issues is always the best policy.
 

rt

The Kinder, Gentler Version
May 13, 2004
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And no one suggested it does? But we are having a conversation of things that will need to be addressed as we move forward. One of them was Stepan can't be your 3rd line center at his salary. Another is we probably can't afford to ice a 3rd D pairing that costs around $5 million. It doesn't mean we have to give up on a Duchene type but we do need to address Cap space while improving roster . A roster and Cap are fluid, getting ahead of issues is always the best policy.
Yes he can.
 
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Mosby

<3 Uncle Gary
Feb 16, 2012
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Everything fits if you assume: a cap greater than 81M, Duchene for 10M, Crouse for about 2M, Archibald for less than 1M, and not re-signing Cousins. Done.

Keller Duchene Schmaltz
Gally Stepan Hinostroza
Crouse Dvorak Garland
Grabner Richie Fischer
Archibald

OEL Demers
Chychrun Hammer
Goose Oesterle
Capo Bush

Raanta
Kuemper

Looks pretty good.
 

Jamieh

Registered User
Apr 25, 2012
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If Dvorak continues to grow and Stepan continues to decline, it's definitely his last year here. No doubt about that.
And if he plays like last year it will be a hard to move contract.
 

rt

The Kinder, Gentler Version
May 13, 2004
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And if he plays like last year it will be a hard to move contract.
No it won't. He'll have a year left and we can buy him out if necessary, but more likely we'd retain some salary, and do some kind of swap of unwanteds. I think it's fairly representative of your SOP that you think the Marleau situation won't cost the Leafs much but Stepan is just insurmountable. If you believe the Leafs will be able to wash their hands of Marleau for a future draft pick that doesn't hurt much, can't you believe the same is true of Stepan for the Coyotes next year? Especially given Stepan actually plays center, rather than winger, and will be TEN years younger next off season than Marleau is this off season?
 
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Jamieh

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Apr 25, 2012
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No it won't. He'll have a year left and we can buy him out if necessary, but more likely we'd retain some salary, and do some kind of swap of unwanteds. I think it's fairly representative of your SOP that you think the Marleau situation won't cost the Leafs much but Stepan is just insurmountable. If you believe the Leafs will be able to wash their hands of Marleau for a future draft pick that doesn't hurt much, can't you believe the same is true of Stepan for the Coyotes next year? Especially given Stepan actually plays center, rather than winger, and will be ELEVEN years younger next off season than Marleau is this off season?
Why the lies and why the Leaf's??? I thought Marleau might be able to be traded with Kapanen or Johnsson attached. Not sure if you noticed but Marleau bettered Stepan's point total with 3 minutes less per night on the 3rd line.
 

rt

The Kinder, Gentler Version
May 13, 2004
96,873
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Why the lies and why the Leaf's??? I thought Marleau might be able to be traded with Kapanen or Johnsson attached. Not sure if you noticed but Marleau bettered Stepan's point total with 3 minutes less per night on the 3rd line.
Have you seen the goal totals for the respective teams? IIRC, that Kapanen or Johnsson attachment insisted on a roughly equivalent asset coming back. I might be confusing you with some of the other Leafs fans that I have chatted with on the subject.

Why the Leafs? Really?
 

Jamieh

Registered User
Apr 25, 2012
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Have you seen the goal totals for the respective teams? IIRC, that Kapanen or Johnsson attachment insisted on a roughly equivalent asset coming back. I might be confusing you with some of the other Leafs fans that I have chatted with on the subject.

Why the Leafs? Really?
Wasn't me. I think the Leaf's are going to lose assets. I would like to see the Coyotes be the beneficiaries of that loss. Yes, why the Leaf's? I have not brought them into this conversation.
 

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