Rumor: Coyotes exploring temporary arena options in the city of Phoenix

CC96

Serious Offender
Nov 6, 2012
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Mesa, Arizona
Use this thread for all purpose discussion regarding the Coyotes' arena options.


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Craig is claiming the Coyotes have met with officials at the at the Veteran's Memorial Coliseum about using the arena as a temporary home until something can better can be worked out.

If this is true, than IMO it's just a ruse to try and negotiate a better temporary lease at Talking Stick with the Suns/City of Phoenix.
 
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XX

Waiting for Ishbia
Dec 10, 2002
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I hope the league is bankrolling that, because VMC is a.) decrepit and not fit for NHL hockey and b.) a lawsuit waiting to happen.

This actually moves the needle more towards relocation for me. No one in their right mind would consider this. That is, unless somebody (Phoenix, the league) is paying for it or making it worthwhile.
 

Matias Maccete

Chopping up defenses
Sep 21, 2014
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If they fixed it up it could be kind of cool as a stop gap. It needs a lot of fixing though.
 

_Del_

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Jul 4, 2003
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I would be shocked if this happened... Honestly, though, I would be more surprised if the Coyotes hadn't met regarding this. I think when you're looking for an interim solution, you should explore pretty much everything. It certainly isn't an NHL quality rink, by any stretch.

Could the Coyotes survive 3 yrs at the Vet until a new arena is ready? It would depend on the terms and how much the Coyotes are willing to dump into a renovation for 3 yrs. But if the price was right, maybe it'd make sense for both parties. Maybe the Coyotes don't pay rent and keep most of the gate/parking during their stay, but dump capital into making the building respectable. Might be a win-win.

Again, I would be shocked if this turned out to be the best option, but nobody makes multimillion dollar decisions without at least looking at all the options.
 

XX

Waiting for Ishbia
Dec 10, 2002
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PHX
Could the Coyotes survive 3 yrs at the Vet until a new arena is ready? It would depend on the terms and how much the Coyotes are willing to dump into a renovation for 3 yrs. But if the price was right, maybe it'd make sense for both parties. Maybe the Coyotes don't pay rent and keep most of the gate/parking during their stay, but dump capital into making the building respectable. Might be a win-win.

The Coyotes pay the equivalent of $5 in rent right now. They're going to go from being paid $15 million to play in one of the nicest arenas in the league to being paid nothing to play in a 12.5k decrepit barn that needs significant renovations just to be passable? How?
 

The Feckless Puck

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Oct 26, 2006
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The Coliseum was decrepit when I went to my first ever hockey game back in 1993.

The Coliseum was decrepit when I was watching Walter Davis and Alvan Adams play basketball there.

That said, if there was some miracle-working, cash-flush sugar daddy who was interested in a giant renovation project to preserve the saddledome exterior while doing a facelift inside (think the Singer Porsches), I wouldn't mind if the Coyotes played there long-term. It IS, after all, the ancestral home of hockey in Arizona.
 

rt

The Kinder, Gentler Version
May 13, 2004
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A Rockwellian Pleasantville
The Coliseum was decrepit when I was watching Walter Davis and Alvan Adams play basketball there.

That said, if there was some miracle-working, cash-flush sugar daddy who was interested in a giant renovation project to preserve the saddledome exterior while doing a facelift inside (think the Singer Porsches), I wouldn't mind if the Coyotes played there long-term. It IS, after all, the ancestral home of hockey in Arizona.

Somebody call Bill and Melinda!
 

Muppet

7th Round Pick
Mar 13, 2011
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I should kick a rugby ball right into your stomach for even sarcastically suggesting that. Then dump a can of Speight's on your head.

:P
I hate Rugby and Speights, so that's even worse.

Seriously though, I think we're screwed. I can't imagine IA even have the money to assist in upgrading a 50+ year old arena, let alone actually having anything to do with a brand new one. I'm starting to really believe the end is nigh.

Hello Darkness my old friend..
 

ClassLessCoyote

Staying classy
Jun 10, 2009
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I can only hope there's money in the future from new investors to destroy that old arena and replace it with a new one and restore that area that's dangerous to be in currently.
 

0point1

Registered User
Sep 14, 2011
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Arizona
Veteran's Memorial Coliseum is not going to happen. Only 13,000 for hockey, no suites, concessions are crap, and the arena is very very far from NHL standards.

Would be better just to play for free in Glendale and negotiate to keep the arena naming revenue from Gila River, suite revenue, and concession revenue.

Suites/premium revenue are about $8.5 million a season according to the 2008/2009 leaked financials.

Veteran's Memorial Coliseum... subtract $8.5 million subtract $2.4 million arena naming rights revenue. Already $10+ million less revenue by playing at Veteran's Memorial Coliseum. Makes no sense.
 

_Del_

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Jul 4, 2003
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The Coyotes pay the equivalent of $5 in rent right now. They're going to go from being paid $15 million to play in one of the nicest arenas in the league to being paid nothing to play in a 12.5k decrepit barn that needs significant renovations just to be passable? How?

The team isn't being payed to play there. They are being paid to manage the arena. The deal is a loser for Glendale, but you're very much simplifying the issue. The team is sharing millions in revenue from all the events held there with the city of Glendale and is responsible for the operations and booking aspects of running the arena. Glendale gets all or most of the parking under the current arrangement, I believe. None of those conditions need necessarily exist at the Vet.

Again, I'd be shocked if this turned out to be the best option for the team. But if the commission looks and says, "You know we could use the catalyst to do the needed renovations, and we would have a guaranteed event for over 246 games to help offset the costs at the same time", they might decide they are open to a generous agreement.

You make big decisions by doing your homework. It costs almost nothing to say, "What would this take to make sense for you? Because this is what we would need for it to make sense for us. Are we close?"

If the overall cost was lower over a 3 yr period than Talking Stick, then maybe they figure it's worth a suboptimal building. After all, you've got all the limited view seating at Talking Stick, and the terms of the lease there weren't very favourable last go around.

It costs you nothing to ask a few questions. Why wouldn't they ask around? If nothing else you might be making some leverage for yourself elsewhere.
 

XX

Waiting for Ishbia
Dec 10, 2002
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The team isn't being payed to play there. They are being paid to manage the arena. The deal is a loser for Glendale, but you're very much simplifying the issue. The team is sharing millions in revenue from all the events held there with the city of Glendale and is responsible for the operations and booking aspects of running the arena. Glendale gets all or most of the parking under the current arrangement, I believe. None of those conditions need necessarily exist at the Vet.

The arrangement is and always has been a net subsidy to the Coyotes. They don't get that at VMC. Right off the bat, the Coyotes take a massive blow financially, not even factoring in other costs.

Again, I'd be shocked if this turned out to be the best option for the team. But if the commission looks and says, "You know we could use the catalyst to do the needed renovations, and we would have a guaranteed event for over 246 games to help offset the costs at the same time", they might decide they are open to a generous agreement.

Or they can just keep the VMC the air conditioned gun show shack it currently is and not spend extravagantly on unneeded renovations and a hockey team.

If the overall cost was lower over a 3 yr period than Talking Stick, then maybe they figure it's worth a suboptimal building. After all, you've got all the limited view seating at Talking Stick, and the terms of the lease there weren't very favourable last go around.

So it's going to be cheaper to renovate an ancient barn versus being abused by the Suns, albeit in a relatively modern, centrally located, light-railed, bigger arena? I don't think so.

It costs you nothing to ask a few questions. Why wouldn't they ask around? If nothing else you might be making some leverage for yourself elsewhere.

This is leverage the same way a local YMCA would be leverage for the Suns.
 

RemoAZ

Let it burn
Mar 30, 2010
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I think the point is getting out of Glendale immediately if they don't make a long term agreement with the team so they don't benefit from the Coyotes being there. Screw them. If they let the Yotes play there for free in order to get some small upgrades to the building, it would be worth it. Adding some suites and upgrading the arena a bit might be worth it to receive all the revenue including parking. Don't forget, it's easy to collect for parking there.
 

_Del_

Registered User
Jul 4, 2003
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This is easier to read now that about 90% of my emotional attachment has been beaten out of me.

Very.


The Feckless Puck said:
That said, if there was some miracle-working, cash-flush sugar daddy who was interested in a giant renovation project to preserve the saddledome exterior while doing a facelift inside (think the Singer Porsches), I wouldn't mind if the Coyotes played there long-term. It IS, after all, the ancestral home of hockey in Arizona.

Even more unlikely, but hey, if someone decides that a long-term tenant would justify the expense, then great. And again, it costs nothing to say, "What would it take to make sense for you?"
 

_Del_

Registered User
Jul 4, 2003
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The arrangement is and always has been a net subsidy to the Coyotes. They don't get that at VMC. Right off the bat, the Coyotes take a massive blow financially, not even factoring in other costs.

Why couldn't there be a deal to be made that didn't result in a net positive to the Coyotes bottom line? How could we possibly know that without asking them?
 

XX

Waiting for Ishbia
Dec 10, 2002
54,886
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PHX
Why couldn't there be a deal to be made that didn't result in a net positive to the Coyotes bottom line? How could we possibly know that without asking them?

You can always ask. I'm not arguing against the VMC as a last ditch effort. If the league wants to pay for it, they can. If the Gates foundation wants to donate to AZ hockey charity, they can.

You're asking a team that has very little financial wherewithal to do a whole lot. This would be different if the team was just a billionaire's plaything.
 

Snarky Coyote

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May 3, 2009
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I have some inside info on this, a mod can pm me if they want me to verify, but VMC will not work, it seats 11200 for hockey, and the ice plant was sold after the mustangs left, it would require a complete rebuild of the floor to work and the AC would have serious issues with respect to blowing on the ice, and turning it to slush with a full house. Also there is no possibility of adding suites due to the construction of the roof and walls. In addition you are talking about a 50 year old facility everything from the seats to the bathrooms is held together with ductape and bailing wire. concessions would be a mess, again same problem with Beer and Soda lines, would need all new equipment and new lines retrofitted. VMS is like the Islanders barn if it had never been updated.
 

Dirty Old Man

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It's a different prospect in 2016 vs 1992 as the NHL"minimum standard" for buildings is likely quite a bit higher, but it surely makes sense to at least make inquiries into VMC, as others have said. And it's not without precedent for the NHL, as the Tampa Bay Lightning spent their first year in a similar sized arena pretty far (at the time) outside of town, that was also on a state fairground.

(OT: which, now that I think about it, I'd been in once...in 1985 to see Power Station (half of Duran Duran plus the late Robert Palmer)... which makes twice in the last 48 hours I've mentioned 'Tampa' and 'Duran Duran' in the same post on HF )
 

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