Post-Game Talk: Coyotes def. Canucks - 4-2

[PG Canuck]

How have so many forgotten that preseason means nothing? The boys are saving it for the playoffs. GO CANUCKS GO!

You're bound to be right one of these years - your prediction percentage will be at 2% after all these years, but at least you'll get it right eventually.

 

[Motte and Bailey]

You're bound to be right one of these years - your prediction percentage will be at 2% after all these years, but at least you'll get it right eventually.

We are due for a good year injury wise with the lighter schedule. We’ve been in the playoff hunt for some time so it’s not like playoffs are a crazy prediction at all. Lots of experts see us making the playoffs too.

 

[PG Canuck]

We are due for a good year injury wise with the lighter schedule. We’ve been in the playoff hunt for some time so it’s not like playoffs are a crazy prediction at all. Lots of experts see us making the playoffs too.

Predicting a Stanley Cup is more likely than a healthy Canucks team.

 

[tantalum]

The preseason means nothing! Or really it can only mean good things! The bad stuff well that means nothing!

Now in actual fact there is no team correlation between preseason and regular season success. But it can shine a light on individual depth....and quite frankly the preseason only really illustrated they have warm bodies not depth. A bunch of interchangeable parts but none of them actually fit the way they are supposed to and, therefore, don’t make the team better (talking the bottom 6).

Also the Canucks have been out of the playoff hunt long before the powers that be and most fans realize in most years. It’s not injuries that kills them...it’s that even when healthy the opposition carries the play.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

Now that's a scary rollercoaster that Markstrom doesn't want to take a ride on.

The best ride is the one after a 2 hours line up

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Not really reading too much into pre season results...I remember several years ago, the Oilers went undefeated in the pre season, only to finish at the bottom of the table...The Canucks looked terrible last year in the pre season, but got off to a good start.

The Canucks were definitely not 'in sync' last night...The Coyotes quick crisp passing, and attention to structure..had the Canucks chasing the game.

Glad this pre season is over..the split squads can now be combined..and we can get on with some real hockey.

 

[Hoghandler]

A bunch of interchangeable parts but none of them actually fit the way they are supposed to and, therefore, don’t make the team better (talking the bottom 6).

Adam Gaudette was arguably the best player in camp and is fighting for a 3rd line centre job. He could absolutely 'fit', as well as make the team better.

Beagle had a strong showing, and looks like the perfect 4c to eat tough minutes and kill penalties.

The wings were not as impressive, but there remains solid bottom 6 wing depth when this team is relatively healthy.

 

[krutovsdonut]

The best ride is the one after a 2 hours line up

went to disneyland in april once. no line ups. the kids got sick doing rollercoaster rides back to back to back.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Adam Gaudette was arguably the best player in camp and is fighting for a 3rd line centre job. He could absolutely 'fit', as well as make the team better.

Beagle had a strong showing, and looks like the perfect 4c to eat tough minutes and kill penalties.

The wings were not as impressive, but there remains solid bottom 6 wing depth when this team is relatively healthy.

Beagle had a tough year last season...Breaking your forearm is obviously going to impact your season (taking face offs, controlling ,shooting the puck etc)...Sutter was pretty much a non factor as well due to injury..

Not getting all this 'anguish' about the bottom 6..(when healthy).

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

went to disneyland in april once. no line ups. the kids got sick doing rollercoaster rides back to back to back.

My first and only Disneyland exp was back when I was 8 when I visited Tokyo. Every big ride was at least an hour of lining up. The major on was 2 hours

 

[I am toxic]

"I don't understand. When our team is healthy, we are almost good enough to win a wildcard spot. And St Louis proves that any team in the playoffs can win the Cup."

"Well, actually, our team suffers from the worst travel schedule in the NHL, and science shows us that fatigue increases injuries."

"I don't understand. We can call up replacements when we have injuries."

"Well, actually, the pre-season showed us that the only call-up capable of taking a regular shift in the NHL is Gaudette. Who should actually be on the team if merit was actually a factor."

"I don't understand. For years you complained that we didn't have NHL capable callups, and now that we do, you keep complaining."

"Well, actually, what I complained about was a poorly constructed team striving for playoffs and shedding draft picks when they should have been rebuilding and acquiring draft picks. Now we have replacement level players like Beagle and Sutter taking up over $7M in cap space, and they are blocking the utilization of a young Hoby Baker award winning centre."

"It's Hobey Baker. Not Hoby Baker."

"Well, actually, that doesn't matte . . ."

"It's Hobey. With an E. It matters. You obviously don't know anything about hockey."

"Well, actually, you understood the point I was maki . . ."

"An E. You can't even spell. You're toxic."

 

[tantalum]

I’ll explain the “anguish”.

WHEN HEALTHY the bottom side was dominated possession wise night after night. WHEN HEALTHY the bottom six was scored on far more than they scored. It is something that multiple writers have pointed out as being the major shortcoming of the team along with a poor blueline.

From the athletic season preview for instance:

And then there’s the bottom six, which has even more holes to be filled, grading out to be the fifth worst in hockey. If you want to know what separates the Canucks from bona fide playoff teams, a large part is the forward depth...

....The bottom six is a mess, but the problems for Vancouver don’t end there. Though the defence corps will be better overall compared with the drudge Vancouver was icing for the last half decade, it’s still well below what other competitive teams can ice.

If you are using attaching the term WHEN HEALTHY in the description of the potential play of the bottom 6 or blueline it is the same as saying no or inadequate depth.

Also they won’t be healthy. It’s something that should not ever be counted on. If it happens somehow then great but you don’t build your hopes around “when healthy”.

 

[MS]

I’ll explain the “anguish”.

WHEN HEALTHY the bottom side was dominated possession wise night after night. WHEN HEALTHY the bottom six was scored on far more than they scored. It is something that multiple writers have pointed out as being the major shortcoming of the team along with a poor blueline.

From the athletic season preview for instance:



If you are using attaching the term WHEN HEALTHY in the description of the potential play of the bottom 6 or blueline it is the same as saying no or inadequate depth.

Also they won’t be healthy. It’s something that should not ever be counted on. If it happens somehow then great but you don’t build your hopes around “when healthy”.

It should be a bit better as serviceable guys like Leivo get pushed down the lineup.

But when your #3-4 centers are Sutter and Beagle, both of those lines are going to be complete black holes offensively, no matter who the wingers are. And that puts a ton of scoring pressure on the top lines, especially when inevitable injuries hit.

Again, given that the Horvat-Miller line is a matchup defensive line, that should give us the flexibility to build a 3rd scoring line around Gaudette and Baertschi and then bury a Beagle-Sutter 4th line in tough minutes. But everything sounds like Green wants to run 3 checking lines, which will be both stupid and boring.

 

[4Twenty]

The anguish in the bottom 6 is that it's not very good and is probably the most expensive group in the NHL.

 

[Zippgunn]

Definitely if another one of our players goes down and everyone including the coach pretends nothing happened. We shall see.

I guess you enjoy watching a team of cowards though.

Yeah, too bad we don't have a Bertuzzi on the team anymore...

 

[Zippgunn]

Marky pays for being on his knees for no reason. Should have gotten to his feet when the puck was almost on the half wall because the puck isn't in the danger zone. Nor was it in a dangerous position afterwards until the puck went to the point. Because he's on his knees he doesn't have the same square to the puck and he's late on his read. See how being in this position you are kind of committed to lean a bit. Then he has to shift to square himself and the shot comes back to where he was. The further you are away from the net even a soft shot like that becomes dangerous if the goalie is in post integration for no reason.

If he had gotten to his feet like 30 seconds earlier, he is on his feet and can see around the screen or he can crowd the screen point and it's an easy save.

Everyone makes mistakes, but you need to develop habits that give you the best chance to make the save even when sometimes your chances are quite slim. This is a prime example of how being lazy and staying on your knees leads to a cascade of consequences.

Earlier Marky had gotten up right away out of his RVH. As I watch now he's being lazy again.

I appreciate your input here because I see what you see but can't articulate it in goalie-speak. Both Demko and Marky appear to be stuck at their respective points in development which leads me to believe that Ian Clark is not in fact some sort of miracle worker goalie coach but just another fallible coach like pretty much all our coaches on this team and our goalies are basically average goalies who sometimes rise to the occasion but are still prone to at least one gaffe per game and sometimes more. Those gaffes will cost us points and, very likely, a playoff spot.

 

[VanJack]

It should be a bit better as serviceable guys like Leivo get pushed down the lineup.

But when your #3-4 centers are Sutter and Beagle, both of those lines are going to be complete black holes offensively, no matter who the wingers are. And that puts a ton of scoring pressure on the top lines, especially when inevitable injuries hit.

Again, given that the Horvat-Miller line is a matchup defensive line, that should give us the flexibility to build a 3rd scoring line around Gaudette and Baertschi and then bury a Beagle-Sutter 4th line in tough minutes. But everything sounds like Green wants to run 3 checking lines, which will be both stupid and boring.

This post should be framed with neon in the Canucks hockey ops department as they contemplate the opening night roster. Let's be brutally frank here. If Sutter and Beagle are your 3-4 centers, then you're basically eliminating the possibility of any offense from your third and fourth lines. That's why Gaudette is creating such a dilemma for them. Maybe he's a little behind defensively (although rapidly improving) but his offense can actually carry a line.

Green and Benning have repeated it like a broken record, that they want scoring from a top nine group of forwards. This just can't happen with Beagle and Sutter in the middle.

 

[Zippgunn]

He seems to be a very easy guy to get behind, unless of course he’s absolutely destroying your team single-handedly in the playoffs

Hey wait, I thought that series was all Willie D's fault...

 

[Hoghandler]

But when your #3-4 centers are Sutter and Beagle, both of those lines are going to be complete black holes offensively, no matter who the wingers are. And that puts a ton of scoring pressure on the top lines, especially when inevitable injuries hit.

To be fair, Sutter, when healthy for us in '17-18, was a Horse. Could play tough minutes, while chipping in solid offense from the bottom 6. And this season the potential wing quality could be much higher. Roussel played like a 2nd line winger last season, Baertschi is a quality piece on a 3rd line, and there are some other players that could step up and play quality 3rd line minutes, namely Gaudette, and potentially even Leivo.

If the team is riddled with injuries once again, it will be tough to ice a strong 3rd line. But when healthy, this team has solid bottom of the roster talent. Much better than in recent years.

 

[tantalum]

It should be a bit better as serviceable guys like Leivo get pushed down the lineup.

But when your #3-4 centers are Sutter and Beagle, both of those lines are going to be complete black holes offensively, no matter who the wingers are. And that puts a ton of scoring pressure on the top lines, especially when inevitable injuries hit.

Again, given that the Horvat-Miller line is a matchup defensive line, that should give us the flexibility to build a 3rd scoring line around Gaudette and Baertschi and then bury a Beagle-Sutter 4th line in tough minutes. But everything sounds like Green wants to run 3 checking lines, which will be both stupid and boring.

I’d like to see what you mention as it would suggest they are still doing some rebuilding. The problem is I don’t think Gaudette is really ready for the third line role yet (fine for rebuilding not for a management really pushing for playoffs). However, the problem is as you suggest...that belief is actually killing the offense because they will rely on Sutter and Beagle. The offense will crater. (I honestly don’t believe Baertschi will do much to help the situation).

I just really believe there needed to be substantial turnover in the 7-13 forward spots and basically they got none. It needs to happen or it will kill the team again. Along with the blue line which is still a bottom 5-7 group.

 

[Balls Mahoney]

The problem with the entire Canucks system is we simply cannot draft or develop players. Ideally you'd want young players pushing to continually move up the depth chart which in turn forces veteran to sustain high levels of play to maintain their spot. But outside of Gaudette and MacEwan, there's virtually no one within a stone's throw of being a NHLer in this organization. So we've had to spend stupid money on veterans to fill roles kids should be.

I'm actually still a pretty big Beagle fan but there is such a glut of crap in the system from the administration of stagnation that is Benning that we're now in a log jam of expensive crap which is becoming a microphone feedback loop because this administration of stagnation is incapable of addressing or getting out of it.

I'm of the opinion this team is going to be a mess anyway so I'd rather have Gaudette and Hughes pay their dues this season and take all the pain now when it doesn't matter as much.

 

[geebaan]

Hey wait, I thought that series was all Willie D's fault...

I wouldn't bring that up again if i was you.

 

[mathonwy]

The problem with the entire Canucks system is we simply cannot draft or develop players.

The problem with the Vancouver Canucks is we are owned by shady land developers who don't have an effing clue how to manage a hockey company but think they know because they were one game away from a Stanley Cup.

They also don't want to take the time to LEARN how to become a real hockey company which would explain all of the development SNAFUs that have happened since the 2015-16 season as well as the firings of Mike Gillis and Lawrence Gilman, two very smart hockey men.

Jared and Jake.. why were they up with the team in 2015-16 season? Because the AIG was done with the 2011 core after the loss to Calgary and wanted new toys to market to the unwashed masses.

And look what has happened to these once shiny Canuck prospects...

...

 

[tyhee]

The problem with the entire Canucks system is we simply cannot draft or develop players. Ideally you'd want young players pushing to continually move up the depth chart which in turn forces veteran to sustain high levels of play to maintain their spot. But outside of Gaudette and MacEwan, there's virtually no one within a stone's throw of being a NHLer in this organization. So we've had to spend stupid money on veterans to fill roles kids should be. ...

I largely agree with your point until you get to the "had to spend stupid money on veterans to fill roles kids should be."

Nobody forced the Canucks to spend big money on bottom six and fringe players. Every season there are cheap free agents, mid-priced free agents and expensive free agents available both in free agency and in trade. They could have gone for (and to some extent kept) cheap players to fill out the bottom of the roster but that isn't the way the Canucks choose to build their roster.

Between choosing to spend money on the bottom of the roster and a series of moves in which players were overrated, the Canucks have ended up year after year adding mid-priced players to their bottom six while managing to stay a bad team. Even on a bad team I don't have an issue signing cheap free agents to fill in the bottom of the roster, but signing mid-priced or higher free agents who are beyond or leaving their prime years and trading for and overpaying (for too long) guys to try to make the team slightly less bad is a poor approach to building a competitive franchise.

 

[Hoglander]

The problem with the Vancouver Canucks is we are owned by shady land developers who don't have an effing clue how to manage a hockey company but think they know because they were one game away from a Stanley Cup.

They also don't want to take the time to LEARN how to become a real hockey company which would explain all of the development SNAFUs that have happened since the 2015-16 season as well as the firings of Mike Gillis and Lawrence Gilman, two very smart hockey men.

Jared and Jake.. why were they up with the team in 2015-16 season? Because the AIG was done with the 2011 core after the loss to Calgary and wanted new toys to market to the unwashed masses.

And look what has happened to these once shiny Canuck prospects...

...

Why are they unwashed? Is there a water shortage? Or are you speaking specifically about fans from the downtown eastside?