Coyotes comp'd at least 2500 tickets per game in 2005-06

[GSC2k2*]

They seem to be outstripping Winnipeg in at least one respect: the loss column. 30 million here, 100 million there...it starts to add up to more than pocket change even for someone as weathy as Moyes.

I can assure you that the Winnipeg Jets never comp-ed anywhere near 2,500 tickets per game for a season. No Canadian team has ever given away the amount of tickets franchises such as Phoenix and Nashville have. The markets are different and there isn't the need to introduce the game to new people like there is in a place like Phoenix.

GHOST

Sorry, but with all due respect your "assurances" are worth little. Winnipeg did not -could not - sell out. 'nuff said.

By the way, I do recall reading somewhere that Shenkarow lost in the order of $30 mil or so his last year in Winnipeg. It is a closer race than you think.

 

[Chartrand]

I'm shocked that someone with a Jets avatar made this thread. Shocked.

 

[PuckHeadDave]

The coyotes aren't moving. The penalties they'd have to pay to get out of their spectacular new arena basically make it a poison pill. And the new arena is sweet. Besides, half of Canada moves to Phoenix from Nov-Mar anyways.

 

[MAROONSRoad]

The coyotes aren't moving. The penalties they'd have to pay to get out of their spectacular new arena basically make it a poison pill. And the new arena is sweet. Besides, half of Canada moves to Phoenix from Nov-Mar anyways.

Hi PuckHeadDave,

From the pictures/games on TV I've seen Jobbing.com does indeed seem like a very nice arena. I'm curious about the penalties you mentioned. Do you have a link or source or more info?

Thanks,

GHOST

 

[XX]

Hi PuckHeadDave,

From the pictures/games on TV I've seen Jobbing.com does indeed seem like a very nice arena. I'm curious about the penalties you mentioned. Do you have a link or source or more info?

Thanks,

GHOST

They have a 30 year lease. In the same article they claim the 30 million loss they mention the penalties for leaving the lease early which are ridiculous.

 

[PuckHeadDave]

I've been looking but haven't been able to find a credible article. I do know that they signed a 20 year lease for Glendale, and I think they actually paid 2.5 million to get out of AWA early. I just find it hard to believe that they are losing 30 million, when a beer costs 6 bucks there.

 

[MAROONSRoad]

They have a 30 year lease. In the same article they claim the 30 million loss they mention the penalties for leaving the lease early which are ridiculous.

Here's what the second article in the Arizona Republic stated:

"But it's unlikely Moyes would uproot the team and relocate it to another market. That would trigger "substantial" early-termination penalties that were outlined in an agreement between Glendale and the team."

It depends what "substantial" means I guess. If you're losing 30 million a year that's pretty substantial, wouldn't you think?

GHOST

 

[MAROONSRoad]

Sorry, but with all due respect your "assurances" are worth little.

Fine, believe that my assurances are worth little. That's not very sporting or kind of you, though.

For other readers:

I was a season ticket holder and attended the various "state of the franchise" gatherings where issues of the team's finances were sometimes discussed. I never once heard anything about the Jets giving away on a regular basis 100s let alone 1000s of free tickets. The scalpers in front of the arena before the game weren't giving away tickets for next to nothing either (as they would probably have been forced to if there were that many free tickets floating around).

If there is someone from Winnipeg that remembers otherwise, please correct me. If there is anyone from any other Canadian city where 100s or 1000s of tickets are or were regularly comp-ed, please advise.

For gscarpenter2002:

Since you brought it up, what evidence do you have that the Jets were giving away a significant number of tickets? Source? Link?

I have never seen a report in the media of any Canadian team ever doing that. There is a reason for that. There is no compelling need to introduce new fans to the game and risk diluting the value of season tickets. If people don't come to games in a decent hockey market, it's because they don't want to or they don't like hockey or they don't have time or they can't afford to. It simply a different (mature rather than new) market.

By the way, I do recall reading somewhere that Shenkarow lost in the order of $30 mil or so his last year in Winnipeg. It is a closer race than you think.

Source?

In the last lame duck season (it had been announced the team would be leaving) a lot of people did not renew their season tickets or decided they would not attend the games for obvious reasons. The losses were substantial but less than you claim if I remember correctly. And Shenkarow did not pick up the tab.

GHOST

 

[jamiebez]

By the way, I do recall reading somewhere that Shenkarow lost in the order of $30 mil or so his last year in Winnipeg. It is a closer race than you think.

No, he didn't.

It's a matter of public record, actually. The city and province entered into an agreement with the team to cover their losses in the last 3 years of their existance in exchange for part ownership of the team (36%, IIRC). The losses for the last 3 years total were $30M Cdn.

In the final season, the losses were $15M. It's important to mention this was the "lame duck" 1995/96 season when it had already been announced the team was moving, and had in fact been sold to Burke/Gluckstern. The people of Winnipeg weren't exactly anxious to line the pockets of the owner who was taking their team away, and hence stayed away for most of the season.

 

[Hawker14]

crunching the numbers recently reported as being attributed to Coyotes' management.


2005-06 Coyotes Per Game Statistics:

Paid Attendance 12,040
Complimentary Tickets 3,542
________________________________
Total Distributed: 15,582



2006-07 Coyotes Per Game Statistics:

Paid Attendance 13,545
Complimentary Tickets 1,179
_________________________________
Total Distributed: 14,724



Although the Coyotes gave away a tonne of free tickets in 2005-06, they are actually doing better than the 1st place Predators this season. They have better paid attendance, and less comp's, than the Preds.

 

[BigMac1212]

Face it Mr. gscarpenter, Pheonix is a joke of a hockey market.

As a Phoenix resident rooting for the Coyotes, you are seriously making a case AGAINST Winnipeg. Calling us a "joke of a hockey market" is just downright wrong!

 

[GSC2k2*]

No, he didn't.

It's a matter of public record, actually. The city and province entered into an agreement with the team to cover their losses in the last 3 years of their existance in exchange for part ownership of the team (36%, IIRC). The losses for the last 3 years total were $30M Cdn.

In the final season, the losses were $15M. It's important to mention this was the "lame duck" 1995/96 season when it had already been announced the team was moving, and had in fact been sold to Burke/Gluckstern. The people of Winnipeg weren't exactly anxious to line the pockets of the owner who was taking their team away, and hence stayed away for most of the season.

Point taken, Jamiebez. I knew that figure was from the foggy recesses of my mind. Mind you, while the fans "stayed away" the last year, it is not like there was a 50% drop in attendance or anything. Attendance dropped from a hair over 13,000 to 11,300. It is reasonable to assert (at least on face value) that the team was losing substantial money beforehand (as the 3 year total suggests).

 

[jamiebez]

Point taken, Jamiebez. I knew that figure was from the foggy recesses of my mind. Mind you, while the fans "stayed away" the last year, it is not like there was a 50% drop in attendance or anything. Attendance dropped from a hair over 13,000 to 11,300. It is reasonable to assert (at least on face value) that the team was losing substantial money beforehand (as the 3 year total suggests).

Losses during the first two "normal" years of the agreement were around $6-7M Cdn. I say "normal" because this was with an attendance and payroll typical of that era for the Jets.

Since we're already splitting hairs, the losses were also quite a bit higher because the payroll shot up in the last year - from $13.0M US to $20.9 M US between 94/95 and 95/96. The Blackhawks extended Tkachuk a frontloaded RFA offer sheet worth $6MUS in the summer of 1995 thinking the Jets couldn't match it. They did, but it obviously affected their bottom line quite a bit.

 

[razorsedge]

Point taken, Jamiebez. I knew that figure was from the foggy recesses of my mind. Mind you, while the fans "stayed away" the last year, it is not like there was a 50% drop in attendance or anything. Attendance dropped from a hair over 13,000 to 11,300. It is reasonable to assert (at least on face value) that the team was losing substantial money beforehand (as the 3 year total suggests).

Could it be that, the it was known the Jets were leaving at the end of the season? Who'd want to support a team under new ownership intent on moving to the desert?

And Yes the Jets were losing huge amounts of money. But can you really compare the Winnipeg arena to Jobing.com arena? Do you have any idea on what the lease argreement was between Winnipeg enterprises and the Jets? My understanding is that the Coyotes have one of the sweeter arena deals in the NHL. (I don't know the details though).

 

[hockeydadx2*]

The coyotes aren't moving. The penalties they'd have to pay to get out of their spectacular new arena basically make it a poison pill. And the new arena is sweet. Besides, half of Canada moves to Phoenix from Nov-Mar anyways.

Maybe they move because they hate hockey?