Speculation: Coyotes are preferred trade destination for Kessel

Wingsfan 4 life

Registered User
Oct 9, 2016
1,711
428
Anything from the Yotes side of things? This is from the Pens side. Joshe Yohe.

That whole last part looks completely made up. First off, the actual financials are wrong and secondly, even if a team only intends to spend to the floor, I find it very to believe they'll just nonchalantly say so.

IMO it's likely more the Yotes don't want to pay the Pens price for Kessel and Yohe is just dressing it up as purely financial.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sir Goose

Alexander the Gr8

Registered User
May 2, 2013
31,603
12,666
Toronto
I love how people are questioning his heart and character because he'd consider going. People just love to hate the guy, no matter how many times he proves them wrong.

They're an improving team, and he likes the coach - what's wrong with going there? They were close to the cup a few years ago. There's no reason to think they won't ever get back.

People have just witnessed an expansion team come 3 wins away from winning the Stanley Cup yet they can't believe that an existing team with very little cap constraints at the moment could turn the corner very quickly if they finally decided to spend on elite talent like Kessel.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sir Goose

deaderhead28

Registered User
Jul 3, 2010
5,356
3,873
Yep, it has everything to do with how awesome of a franchise the Coyotes are.

poster_168f3a72663849f2b753794fb1ab2459_90188293_ver1.0_640_480.jpg
That's actually very cool for the Phx area.Try 115 plus
 

molon labe

Registered User
Jul 13, 2016
4,567
2,936
Florida
I'm in the camp of those who don't have an interest in trading him..

That said - if he goes somewhere, I don't mind that it's AZ. That comment (if true) about them not wanting spend 6.8M on a player irks me, and I'm not even a fan.. what the actual. You got guys in Seattle and Canada chomping at the bit for a new franchise, and a team that ONLY wants to spend to the floor? I mean, Matthews is case and point how expanded hockey markets can reap rewards... but man that's ridiculous.

Furthermore, what would AZ even have to offer now that Domi is gone? The #5 is appealing, but what is the +? Pens are in win-now mode so the only win-now from trading Kessel for pick(s) is the cap space it frees for a different splash.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 99664987

Mosby

<3 Uncle Gary
Feb 16, 2012
23,378
18,086
Toronto
There's no way 5 OV is on the board, let alone plus, for Kessel. We're talking a 30-year-old winger here.

I don't see much leverage on the Pens part. To start, there can only be 8 potential bidders based on Kessel's NTC. If memory serves, the Pens were the only bidder last time around, which is why they get him cheap, relatively speaking. Here were the 8 teams on his list last time around:

Montreal
Philadelphia
Pittsburgh
NY Rangers
Boston
Chicago
Los Angeles
Minnesota

If we assume the list is the same, and I admit that's a big assumption, what are the options? (Slotting AZ in place of Pitt.)

Pens aren't moving him to Philly. Hawks don't have cap space and NYR are doing their rebuild. So you're down to 5. And is Montreal a real player in this? So maybe 4 teams now.

And that's without even looking at cap space. How many of those remaining teams can take Kessel at 6.8? Kings are a little tight cap wise. So you're down to Arizona, Boston, Minnesota. And we haven't even touched on the fact that Boston probably doesn't want him back. For Arizona, there might be a cash problem with adding Kessel, but they're one of few teams who could take on his full cap and not even blink.

Last time around, the thinking was Kessel would get a big return, but the deal was:

Kessel
Tim Erixon
Tyler Biggs
2016 2nd

Nick Spaling
Kasperi Kapanen
Scott Harrington
2016 1st
2016 3rd

So after you weed out the crap you've got Kessel for a very low first and an A/B prospect in Kapanen who was sort of flailing at the time.

Yes, some things have changed since that deal. Kessel is a 2-time Cup championship and he's coming off a career 90-pt season. But he's also 3 years older, and he's also pissed off another coach. It's not exactly a secret that Sullivan would probably prefer that he gets moved.

I just don't see much leverage for Pitt here based on Kessel's history, the past deal, and the restrictions of his contract.
 

AZviaNJ

Setbacks, no Defeats
Mar 31, 2011
6,620
4,199
AZ
There's no way 5 OV is on the board, let alone plus, for Kessel. We're talking a 30-year-old winger here.

I don't see much leverage on the Pens part. To start, there can only be 8 potential bidders based on Kessel's NTC. If memory serves, the Pens were the only bidder last time around, which is why they get him cheap, relatively speaking. Here were the 8 teams on his list last time around:

Montreal
Philadelphia
Pittsburgh
NY Rangers
Boston
Chicago
Los Angeles
Minnesota

If we assume the list is the same, and I admit that's a big assumption, what are the options? (Slotting AZ in place of Pitt.)

Pens aren't moving him to Philly. Hawks don't have cap space and NYR are doing their rebuild. So you're down to 5. And is Montreal a real player in this? So maybe 4 teams now.

And that's without even looking at cap space. How many of those remaining teams can take Kessel at 6.8? Kings are a little tight cap wise. So you're down to Arizona, Boston, Minnesota. And we haven't even touched on the fact that Boston probably doesn't want him back. For Arizona, there might be a cash problem with adding Kessel, but they're one of few teams who could take on his full cap and not even blink.

Last time around, the thinking was Kessel would get a big return, but the deal was:

Kessel
Tim Erixon
Tyler Biggs
2016 2nd

Nick Spaling
Kasperi Kapanen
Scott Harrington
2016 1st
2016 3rd

So after you weed out the crap you've got Kessel for a very low first and an A/B prospect in Kapanen who was sort of flailing at the time.

Yes, some things have changed since that deal. Kessel is a 2-time Cup championship and he's coming off a career 90-pt season. But he's also 3 years older, and he's also pissed off another coach. It's not exactly a secret that Sullivan would probably prefer that he gets moved.

I just don't see much leverage for Pitt here based on Kessel's history, the past deal, and the restrictions of his contract.
Great assessment @Mosby
 

Revelation

Registered User
Aug 15, 2016
5,298
2,963
Coyotes with Kessel are a dark horse

Perlini Stepan Kessel
Dvorak Galchenyuk Keller
Panik Strome Fisher

OEL Hjarmalsson
Chychrun Demers
 

Blue Goose

Registered User
May 26, 2012
1,909
217
Los Angeles
hockeytransplant.com
Need salary going back to Pittsburgh to make it work.

And that basically kills any deal because I don't see the point of trading Kessel to Arizona if it doesn't involve the Penguins getting some salary relief.

I just don't see what Arizona would offer, now that Domi has been traded. Goligoski would have to be included for cap reasons, but I don't see that making sense for either team.

What about Richard Panik? One year left at $2.8M. Played well with Toews in Chicago. I imagine the 5th OA would probably be off-limits after they traded a top-10 pick last year, but what about 2019 1st rounder?

Panik + 2019 1st rd pick for Kessel?

Anything from the Yotes side of things? This is from the Pens side. Joshe Yohe.

That whole last part looks completely made up. First off, the actual financials are wrong and secondly, even if a team only intends to spend to the floor, I find it very to believe they'll just nonchalantly say so.

IMO it's likely more the Yotes don't want to pay the Pens price for Kessel and Yohe is just dressing it up as purely financial.

This sounds more believeable to me. I hope that money isn't holding up the deal, because it seems like Kessel - being a top-flight right-shot forward - would be exactly what Arizona needs to turn the corner and challenge in the Pacific.

EDIT: Here is the actual payout for the rest of Kessel's contract (with TOR retention):

5.95M
5.95M
4.25M signing bonus, 850K salary
4.25M signing bonus, 850K salary
 

Empoleon8771

Registered User
Aug 25, 2015
80,407
78,003
Redmond, WA
What about Richard Panik? One year left at $2.8M. Played well with Toews in Chicago. I imagine the 5th OA would probably be off-limits after they traded a top-10 pick last year, but what about 2019 1st rounder?

Panik + 2019 1st rd pick for Kessel?

That's just not nearly enough for Kessel, that's the problem. That's not at all enticing for Kessel.
 

pabst blue ribbon

🇺🇦🤝🇵🇱
Oct 26, 2015
3,240
1,965
PG
Don't forget Raanta. Coyotes played like a top 5 squad when he was healthy.

I'd say go for it Phil. You'd be greatly needed in AZ and already know what it takes to win a cup.
Coyotes had a 22-19-6 record in the games that Raanta played in while he posted a .930 SV%
 

Dipsy Doodle

Rent A Barn
May 28, 2006
76,532
21,074
There's no way 5 OV is on the board, let alone plus, for Kessel. We're talking a 30-year-old winger here.

He's a 30 year old winger who just scored 92 points and makes only 6.8 mil per. He's worth a lot more than the 5th overall.

I don't see much leverage on the Pens part. To start, there can only be 8 potential bidders based on Kessel's NTC. If memory serves, the Pens were the only bidder last time around, which is why they get him cheap, relatively speaking. Here were the 8 teams on his list last time around:

Montreal
Philadelphia
Pittsburgh
NY Rangers
Boston
Chicago
Los Angeles
Minnesota

If we assume the list is the same, and I admit that's a big assumption, what are the options? (Slotting AZ in place of Pitt.)

First, there's nothing to suggest he'd have the same 8 teams on his NTC. He could just as easily have 8 completely different teams. If reports are correct, Arizona's at least one of them.

Second, the Pens have all the leverage. They have the elite winger on a bargain deal, and there's no indication that the situation's untenable, only that Kessel's "open" to a trade. If nothing suits JR, he can just keep the elite winger on a bargain deal. It's all at his discretion.

Yes, some things have changed since that deal. Kessel is a 2-time Cup championship and he's coming off a career 90-pt season. But he's also 3 years older, and he's also pissed off another coach. It's not exactly a secret that Sullivan would probably prefer that he gets moved.

I guess that balances out the whole "92 points and being one of the very best playoff performers in the league en route to 2 Cups" thing.
 

Dr Johnny Fever

Eggplant and Teal
Apr 11, 2012
21,234
5,518
Lower Left Coast
My mistake. I could have sworn one reason they said Roenick went to Arizona was because of no state income tax. I don’t know if it has changed since then or it was an erroneous statement at the time but I stand corrected
Did just look it up and Arizona State income tax is lower then most states but that is a big difference from none. My mistake

Given that it's JR we're talking about, that could exactly be the reason he wanted to go there. ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: CrypTic

Shad

Registered User
Mar 5, 2011
1,128
1,065
Does Arizona have a high hot dog vendor per capita or something
 

Skinnyjimmy08

WorldTraveler
Mar 30, 2012
22,483
11,944
I picture him gaining weight if he gets dealt to AZhaha.. Seems like he will go in retirement mode or something and get chubby
 

Empoleon8771

Registered User
Aug 25, 2015
80,407
78,003
Redmond, WA
Yes, some things have changed since that deal. Kessel is a 2-time Cup championship and he's coming off a career 90-pt season. But he's also 3 years older, and he's also pissed off another coach. It's not exactly a secret that Sullivan would probably prefer that he gets moved.

I just don't see much leverage for Pitt here based on Kessel's history, the past deal, and the restrictions of his contract.

You're just mentioning those as afterthoughts and pretending his past trade has more relevance than that. That's really dumb. Kessel has an insane amount more value now than he had 3 years ago, to make the comparison is ignoring so much. Know what's more relevant than what Kessel brought back 3 years ago, when he was coming off a terrible season, the Leafs were determined to trade him and he carried a loser stigma? The fact that Kessel has 2 Stanley cups with 2 Conn Smythe worthy runs since then, and he's coming off a 92 point season.

The past deal is irrelevant here. The Penguins have all of the leverage here, they can easily just decide to not trade Kessel and they'd be perfect. That wasn't the situation with the Leafs. He's coming off a fantastic season with 92 points. That wasn't the case in 2015. There are more teams rumored to be interested in Kessel, with talks of Minnesota, San Jose, St. Louis and LA being legit suitors for Kessel right now. That wasn't the case in 2015, Pittsburgh was the only suitor. The salary cap is a good bit higher now, that's a factor too. Kessel isn't married to Pittsburgh like he was married to Toronto, so it's doubtful he constructed his NTC to make himself untradeable like he did in Toronto. Along with that, the rumors out right now are that he's open to being traded.

So basically, the 2015 trade has literally no impact on his value right now. All that matters is right now, where Kessel is an elite RW coming off a fantastic season who has proven he can take your contending team to championship level. Teams aren't stupid, they're not going to say "he only brought back Kapanen and a 1st 3 years ago, so I'm not offering any more!!!!" if they actually want to win anytime soon.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Warm Cookies

DarthProbert

Registered User
Feb 3, 2015
1,912
1,499
Yeah, screw the guy winning and making millions doing what he loves - he already has it too easy, he shouldnt be allowed to choose where he lives and spends some of his life!

When Doan spent 20 years refusing to leave the basement dwellers even when doing so would have helped the team acquire young assets, everyone applauded his loyalty. When Kessel's willing to do it after 2 cups, he's a loser who doesn't care about winning.
 

Mosby

<3 Uncle Gary
Feb 16, 2012
23,378
18,086
Toronto
Can you really sell Kessel as a 92 point guy? When he averaged about 65 points in the 3 previous seasons? And, likely no matter where he goes, he's going to be playing with lesser talent.
 

Empoleon8771

Registered User
Aug 25, 2015
80,407
78,003
Redmond, WA
Can you really sell Kessel as a 92 point guy? When he averaged about 65 points in the 3 previous seasons? And, likely no matter where he goes, he's going to be playing with lesser talent.

Why are you pretending that his 3 seasons before this year are more relevant than last season? And why are you pretending that Kessel playing with lesser talent is a problem? We're talking about Phil Kessel here, the same Phil Kessel that produced like a mad man for Toronto while playing with Tyler Bozak. We're not talking about James Neal here or someone like that.

Kessel's value is astronomically high right now, I really don't see how you can argue otherwise. The 2015 trade doesn't matter. What he did in Toronto doesn't matter. None of that matters, all that matter is that Kessel is an elite winger that has proven he can take a contending team to a championship caliber team. Is he a 92 point player? No, but he's coming off a 92 point season, so that will definitely inflate his value some. Kessel is an elite 70+ point player that can drive a line either on Pittsburgh or Minnesota or Arizona or anywhere else.

Kessel playing for Pittsburgh is actually a negative overall, I think. Sure, it boosts his powerplay production, but it hurts his ES production because it either means he's on the 3rd line or he's in a complementary role. Kessel is at his best when he's driving a top-6 line, that can't happen in Pittsburgh. He'd be better at ES on a team that doesn't have a true 1C over playing for the Penguins with Malkin.
 
  • Like
Reactions: zaYG

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->