Cowen

Karl Cowensson

I has cheezburger
Oct 27, 2008
2,214
0
Northern Ontario
I'm going to start making a crow list. He's still going to turn into a good #3 possibly #2 d-man.

You definitely should.

Our fanbase is spoiled by the unbelievable development of Karlsson. Generally you have to be patient with young Dmen, they take longer to develop than forwards. Add in his injuries and Cowen is probably 2 years behind were he should be. He's still decent at a young age and getting better. I honestly still think his low end is a bigger Phillips, and he does have the size and shot to be something similar to Pronger or Chara.

Our defense as a whole has been terrible, hard to hang out one player in particular, they've all looked bad at one point. If it was only Cowen we'd could maybe throw him to the wolves. I just think as a whole we are asking too much of over the hill vets or very unexperienced D. The bright side at least is Cowen and Wier are getting better, and show a lot of potential, lets not give up on them yet.
 

Topside

Registered User
Jul 2, 2009
3,163
0
I'm a big Cowen booster but he's been a trainwreck so far. I think he can turn it around, though. He has all the tools he just needs to make better decisions.
 

LuckyPierre

Registered User
Jul 1, 2010
1,948
589
maybe he's the next Brooks Orpik and not the next Pronger

Cowen being drafted as high as he was has been an issue. He was billed as a complete package. They said he'd be mobile, and they said he could carry the puck. They said that without the initial injury, he'd have been a top 3 pick.

Whether it was the knee, or the hip, or both, I can't be sure. But he is about as immobile as they come in today's NHL. Like, more than a step behind.

This fanbase has been conditioned to look past his play by the media, who have been extremely easy on him and quick to provide him with excuses for consistently poor play.

The fact is, cut his draft day expectations in half and extrapolate where he ought to be today, and he still comes up short. He's playing AHL quality hockey.

The injury history isn't an 'excuse' either, because the labrum problem likely lowers his mobility for life, thus lowering his career potential.

In sum, the Brooks Orpik comparison looks more accurate to me. It's about time the fanbase collectively realizes he doesn't have that top 3 or top 10 ceiling, and that he isn't irreplaceable.
 

WORLDSTARHIPHOP

Sens <<<<<<<<<< NHL
May 31, 2008
7,927
3,906
I remember when Turris wasn't performing and he was the pinata. Young players need patience most of all. We might be finished "rebuilding" but our team is nowhere near the top of its development curve yet.

I know we all get mad when he does stupid **** in-game. I'm a victim of that myself. But sometimes you gotta look at the bigger picture. We're not winning the cup this year, so let the boys learn.
 

sens613

Registered User
Apr 12, 2012
908
0
maybe he's the next Brooks Orpik and not the next Pronger

Exactly, nothing wrong with that orpik has had a great careee and been part of some successful teams. If he plays 3 years as a bottom pairing 8 as a second 3 as a botton pairing that's still very good and if he does better great.
 

YNWA14

Onbreekbaar
Dec 29, 2010
34,543
2,560
Lots of time left for him.to become a good player. I still think top pairing is not in the cards but a good three or four is still not bad if he can get there.
 

PoutineSp00nZ

Electricity is really just organized lightning.
Jul 21, 2009
20,046
5,653
Ottawa
I remember when Turris wasn't performing and he was the pinata. Young players need patience most of all. We might be finished "rebuilding" but our team is nowhere near the top of its development curve yet.

I know we all get mad when he does stupid **** in-game. I'm a victim of that myself. But sometimes you gotta look at the bigger picture. We're not winning the cup this year, so let the boys learn.

It seems that defensemen take longer to hit their stride anyway. Phillips struggled big time in his first few seasons, they even had him on the wing at times but he ended up carving out an excellent career as a shut down guy.

Hopefully Cowen can put it together in a similar way in time. I have no issue with him being scratched, let him watch a couple from the pressbox and see if that lights a fire.
 

John Holmes*

Guest
You definitely should.

Our fanbase is spoiled by the unbelievable development of Karlsson. Generally you have to be patient with young Dmen, they take longer to develop than forwards. Add in his injuries and Cowen is probably 2 years behind were he should be. He's still decent at a young age and getting better. I honestly still think his low end is a bigger Phillips, and he does have the size and shot to be something similar to Pronger or Chara.

Our defense as a whole has been terrible, hard to hang out one player in particular, they've all looked bad at one point. If it was only Cowen we'd could maybe throw him to the wolves. I just think as a whole we are asking too much of over the hill vets or very unexperienced D. The bright side at least is Cowen and Wier are getting better, and show a lot of potential, lets not give up on them yet.

Our fanbase was not spoiled by Karlsson, unless they just started watching hockey 3 years ago.

While I can agree that it is too early to give up on Cowen, and if there is one cliche that is nauseatingly overused, and not news to anyone at the very least, it's that "defensemen take longer to develop".

I can't share your enthusiasm at this time though. Cowen has looked absolutely brutal all season long. Wier hasn't looked much better.

Neither has shown any "getting better" or "potential" so I am not sure where you are getting that from.

Wishful thinking perhaps.
 

arglebargle

Registered User
Feb 27, 2008
2,857
0
The fact that people think this guy has much of a chance at being as good as Pronger or Chara is proof positive to me that the only thing anyone is going on is his height and weight. He has shown absolutely nothing in either the NHL or even Major Junior hockey through his play that would suggest that he could contribute the way those two have offensively.
 
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Sensinitis

Registered User
Aug 5, 2012
15,934
5,526
Pretty silly to put Wiercioch in that group when he's barely played 70 games in the NHL.
 

PoutineSp00nZ

Electricity is really just organized lightning.
Jul 21, 2009
20,046
5,653
Ottawa
Cowen is terrible. Single handedly cost the team the game tonight!

Trade him now while his value is high. Maybe package him with Spezza for Steen,
 

ReginKarlssonLehner

Let's Win It All
May 3, 2010
40,755
11,055
Dubai Marina
After Cowen got his major surgery on his leg, he took a long time before getting back to where he was and during that stretch, he played brutal hockey and people thought he went way too high at 9th overall. A couple years later he's playing in our top 4 as a rookie and not looking too much out of place.

I really don't know why I am defending Cowen but mostly cause he hasn't played 200 games like Fuhr said and he is coming off huge surgery. Before that though, he was dominating in AHL and was playing great hockey. I'd only move Cowen if I get a big piece back that has potential of being as good as he can be.

Pretty silly to put Wiercioch in that group when he's barely played 70 games in the NHL.

And he actually hasn't stuck relative to defensive performances.
 

John Holmes*

Guest
I don't think it's Cowen's surgeries that are the problem. He can't make a pass, he can't take a pass, he makes stupid decision after stupid decision.

I think it's in his head.
 

LuckyPierre

Registered User
Jul 1, 2010
1,948
589
I don't think it's Cowen's surgeries that are the problem. He can't make a pass, he can't take a pass, he makes stupid decision after stupid decision.

I think it's in his head.

I concur. If it were a mobility issue, he'd be of the mind to find the first open teammate and pass it over.

In reality, his decision making process takes longer than his skating does. It's in his head.
 

Tampacuseforever

Registered User
Nov 3, 2012
2,877
43
I don't think it's Cowen's surgeries that are the problem. He can't make a pass, he can't take a pass, he makes stupid decision after stupid decision.

I think it's in his head.

Yup he needs to regain his confidence tough thing to do at this level.
 

Karl Cowensson

I has cheezburger
Oct 27, 2008
2,214
0
Northern Ontario
Timing is off when you haven't played lots. Give him some time.

:handclap:

Maybe its just my mentality, but I still view this team as rebuilding, with the goal being to make the playoffs and give the young players playoff experience. Too many people seemed to expect we'd be a top 3 team in the east, anything better than 7th is an improvement.
 

Xspyrit

DJ Dorion
Jun 29, 2008
30,708
9,651
Montreal, Canada
:handclap:

Maybe its just my mentality, but I still view this team as rebuilding, with the goal being to make the playoffs and give the young players playoff experience. Too many people seemed to expect we'd be a top 3 team in the east, anything better than 7th is an improvement.

Of course! I don't come to these boards much in the off-season, so I didn't really read threads about expectations, standings, etc... but yeah, just looking at the shape-up (mostly leadership, age and experience) of the team, it's clear that this team is not ready to contend with Chicago and Boston. Making the playoffs is still the goal and each round win (like last year) is a big bonus! I understand that fans want to see their team win ASAP but reality is not like wishful thinking. Seeing how this team is handling players like Zibanejad and Pageau, I think it's clear that player development is still the priority. I think it's also the case for a player like Conacher who really had to work on the other side of the puck. He is being asked to concentrate on this part of his game even if his production dropped (and he doesn't need to play +15 mins a night to do it). Ottawa is a different system and PM has different expectations but the message to players seems to be harder to spread this season...

Also, most "simplistic" fans (or biased with an agenda) will see the Ryan trade as the clearcut rebuilding stop sign, but honestly, when you can get a young player of the caliber of Bobby Ryan, you have to be ready to give away some nice pieces... and a 1st round pick (should be 8-16th overall IMO) is most likely inevitable in that kind of trade... I think the timing is great because this draft class is probably the weakest in a long time. Chances to find a great player outside of the top-5 are a lot less than usual.
 

Tampacuseforever

Registered User
Nov 3, 2012
2,877
43
I remember when Turris wasn't performing and he was the pinata. Young players need patience most of all. We might be finished "rebuilding" but our team is nowhere near the top of its development curve yet.

I know we all get mad when he does stupid **** in-game. I'm a victim of that myself. But sometimes you gotta look at the bigger picture. We're not winning the cup this year, so let the boys learn.

:handclap::handclap:
 

Tampacuseforever

Registered User
Nov 3, 2012
2,877
43
Of course! I don't come to these boards much in the off-season, so I didn't really read threads about expectations, standings, etc... but yeah, just looking at the shape-up (mostly leadership, age and experience) of the team, it's clear that this team is not ready to contend with Chicago and Boston. Making the playoffs is still the goal and each round win (like last year) is a big bonus! I understand that fans want to see their team win ASAP but reality is not like wishful thinking. Seeing how this team is handling players like Zibanejad and Pageau, I think it's clear that player development is still the priority. I think it's also the case for a player like Conacher who really had to work on the other side of the puck. He is being asked to concentrate on this part of his game even if his production dropped (and he doesn't need to play +15 mins a night to do it). Ottawa is a different system and PM has different expectations but the message to players seems to be harder to spread this season...

Also, most "simplistic" fans (or biased with an agenda) will see the Ryan trade as the clearcut rebuilding stop sign, but honestly, when you can get a young player of the caliber of Bobby Ryan, you have to be ready to give away some nice pieces... and a 1st round pick (should be 8-16th overall IMO) is most likely inevitable in that kind of trade... I think the timing is great because this draft class is probably the weakest in a long time. Chances to find a great player outside of the top-5 are a lot less than usual.


:handclap::handclap: This board thinks of now and the last game, fact of the matter is we still need our young players to develop. Zibanejad is a perfect example, of course he is better than DaCosta but the move was about development and seeing him right now, I think it payed off.
 

derriko

Registered User
Mar 7, 2009
4,615
446
Las Vegas
He has shown absolutely nothing in either the NHL or even Major Junior hockey through his play that would suggest that he could contribute the way those two have offensively.

Oh you know, winning the Memorial cup his rookie year, captaining a team deep into the playoffs and scoring 48 points in 58 games his last year of junior (14 in 17 in the playoffs), jumping into the AHL playoffs at 20 years old and playing a big role in their championship, and making the NHL as a full timer at 20-21 and playing top 4 minutes all while losing two developmental years due to injury.

Add in that he's 6"5', 230 pounds, is a great skater for his size, and a good slapshot to boot, and I think you are dead wrong. Yeah hes not going to be Pronger (I don't think anybody has ever said that other than "lite") but he has the potential to be a player you just dont trade, especially being a proven winner that he is.

The hockey IQ issue people keep bringing up while obviously true this year, doesn't hold much weight if you look at his career as a whole. He made some rookie mistakes as a rookie (omg!?!?!?!) but didn't raise any question marks then. Ill go look through posts to see if I can find any evidence of this as I know it wasn't a concern then.

The two things Cowen has been ragged on over his career is that he isn't consistenly mean enough, and he can't handle the puck well enough. He shows flashes of being a monster (Carolina, the Devaeux fight) and he has noticeably improved in the stick handling department.
 

aragorn

Do The Right Thing
Aug 8, 2004
28,471
8,999
I don't get all this crap over Cowen when Phillips has been so much worse giving the puck way, brain farts that cost goals against & how many goals against is he on for? Cowen will be better than Phillips & IMO already is, he's not losing games for us, they are all playing like **** every other game it seems. :shakehead
 

DrunkUncleDenis

Condra Fan
Mar 27, 2012
11,820
1,682
I don't get all this crap over Cowen when Phillips has been so much worse giving the puck way, brain farts that cost goals against & how many goals against is he on for? Cowen will be better than Phillips & IMO already is, he's not losing games for us, they are all playing like **** every other game it seems. :shakehead

No rispeck for Phillips.

He's a veteran, didn't you hear that on this team they get free passes to play like absolute garbage because they've done so much for us in the past?
 

John Holmes*

Guest
Phillips is being asked to fill a role he has never played at the NHL level. He never got PP time, he was never asked to anchor the team when he was in his prime.

Why? Because we had better options.

Now...we don't.

It's not his fault that he is being asked to play over his head at this point in his career.
 

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