COVID-19: The final countdown

[ColePens]

I mean, I read the article which addresses your question. Did you read the article or just instinctively post a response about me rooting for people to die like a sports even while talking about “America winning the vaccine game”?

I did and I think we equally disagree with each other's tone toward it. I say let the people request for data release (they can do so). I say let courts take over (they can do so). But there is a big difference - I really look at COVID on deaths. So I do not believe even in the slightest they are going to hospitals/examiners/etc and telling them to immediately stop calling deaths COVID that are COVID related. It would need to be an operation like you have never seen before.

I think you do lean to the negative side. I see so many people almost bring themselves to a stand still in negativity. And to your last statement - America was a crucial part to saving millions ACROSS THE WORLD. Which makes me damn proud to be an American because people will survive when they most likely wouldn't have simply due to the amazing work.

Is that not a fair thing to be proud of?

 

[Gurglesons]

I did and I think we equally disagree with each other's tone toward it. I say let the people request for data release (they can do so). I say let courts take over (they can do so). But there is a big difference - I really look at COVID on deaths. So I do not believe even in the slightest they are going to hospitals/examiners/etc and telling them to immediately stop calling deaths COVID that are COVID related. It would need to be an operation like you have never seen before.

I think you do lean to the negative side. I see so many people almost bring themselves to a stand still in negativity. And to your last statement - America was a crucial part to saving millions ACROSS THE WORLD. Which makes me damn proud to be an American because people will survive when they most likely wouldn't have simply due to the amazing work.

Is that not a fair thing to be proud of?

Sure. Don’t sell me as treating COVID as a sport though and turn around and say “go America” when Germany is just as invested in this vaccine..

It is spelled out in the article how Florida is not releasing any requested information to the press and has added an extra layer to their reporting process that requires approval prior to release and we’ve already had one individual say they are manipulating the data. I’m not really sure how we can’t assume something is up with their reporting, but I mean you do you.

 

[Pens1566]

So vaccine comes out a year in advance, saves millions, but the important thing is to ignore it?

I think there is room for both here. I think we attack the positive mindset too much. If it's not teaming up on the negative sides of a pandemic, it's looked down upon greatly. I think there is room for both here, BK.

I really believe 50-75 years from now this moment and the actions of scientists/OWS/etc will go down as saving millions and millions across the globe. They said a miracle was needed. Two miracles happened. We will continue to have our hearts full of those who lost loved ones. That goes without saying for eternity.

I think there is room for both here.

First, the vaccine was always targeted to be ready/approved sometime around end of calendar year 2020. I don't know where you're getting this "year in advance" bullshit. Even as early as April, that has been the story: Fauci Says It's 'Doable' To Have Millions Of Doses Of COVID-19 Vaccine By January

Even one of the founding members of "Team Covid", yours truly, has been saying the same thing. There is a point I've made about the vaccine (I'm sure you'd call it negative) that the distribution of it won't be widespread until 2nd quarter. Which is still valid.

Second, who is ignoring the vaccine? Seriously. You can't turn to a news channel without seeing {insert random Pulmonologist from Iowa} getting a shot on camera.

And I don't agree with your classification of anything that isn't 100% "yay team" as negative. I'd call it realism, or setting expectations. In case you've missed it, this has been a shitty year in reality. There's been way more bad than good. To frame any discussion of what's going on out there using only absolutes is just an oversimplification. And it does a disservice either way. For example, vaccine discussion. Yes there's an approved vaccine. It's starting to be distributed. But, nowhere near widely enough to impact general public or what behavior should still be in place until that impact is made. You'd classify that 2nd point as negative. I'd say it's required reading due to the large # of uninformed people out there that now think all is well due to the already mentioned non-stop coverage of the distribution. Yes those people exist. I can't count how many "vaccine is here, lift the mandates" takes I've seen.

 

[edog37]

I did and I think we equally disagree with each other's tone toward it. I say let the people request for data release (they can do so). I say let courts take over (they can do so). But there is a big difference - I really look at COVID on deaths. So I do not believe even in the slightest they are going to hospitals/examiners/etc and telling them to immediately stop calling deaths COVID that are COVID related. It would need to be an operation like you have never seen before.

I think you do lean to the negative side. I see so many people almost bring themselves to a stand still in negativity. And to your last statement - America was a crucial part to saving millions ACROSS THE WORLD. Which makes me damn proud to be an American because people will survive when they most likely wouldn't have simply due to the amazing work.

Is that not a fair thing to be proud of?

we should always be proud to be Americans. Our ingenuity is second to none.

 

[edog37]

First, the vaccine was always targeted to be ready/approved sometime around end of calendar year 2020. I don't know where you're getting this "year in advance" bullshit. Even as early as April, that has been the story: Fauci Says It's 'Doable' To Have Millions Of Doses Of COVID-19 Vaccine By January

Even one of the founding members of "Team Covid", yours truly, has been saying the same thing. There is a point I've made about the vaccine (I'm sure you'd call it negative) that the distribution of it won't be widespread until 2nd quarter. Which is still valid.

the vaccine timelines were being politicized very early on. Fauci was providing wild estimates from this year to next initially. So were a lot of other talking heads. Distribution plans have only been finalized very recently, so we always knew initial breakouts would be limited & a general roll-out would take time.

 

[ColePens]

First, the vaccine was always targeted to be ready/approved sometime around end of calendar year 2020. I don't know where you're getting this "year in advance" bullshit. Even as early as April, that has been the story: Fauci Says It's 'Doable' To Have Millions Of Doses Of COVID-19 Vaccine By January

Even one of the founding members of "Team Covid", yours truly, has been saying the same thing. There is a point I've made about the vaccine (I'm sure you'd call it negative) that the distribution of it won't be widespread until 2nd quarter. Which is still valid.

Second, who is ignoring the vaccine? Seriously. You can't turn to a news channel without seeing {insert random Pulmonologist from Iowa} getting a shot on camera.

And I don't agree with your classification of anything that isn't 100% "yay team" as negative. I'd call it realism, or setting expectations. In case you've missed it, this has been a shitty year in reality. There's been way more bad than good. To frame any discussion of what's going on out there using only absolutes is just an oversimplification. And it does a disservice either way. For example, vaccine discussion. Yes there's an approved vaccine. It's starting to be distributed. But, nowhere near widely enough to impact general public or what behavior should still be in place until that impact is made. You'd classify that 2nd point as negative. I'd say it's required reading due to the large # of uninformed people out there that now think all is well due to the already mentioned non-stop coverage of the distribution. Yes those people exist. I can't count how many "vaccine is here, lift the mandates" takes I've seen.

Oh this is so wrong it is unreal. And that's the thing I don't get. It's one thing to be negative, but to then try and change the narrative to say "oh but everyone was saying it! It's not even a big deal!" That is next level stuff.

Do you want me to post about 50 articles telling people the vaccine by end of year would be a miracle? Because it will be EASY to do. Literally up until November people said it would be a miracle. Kayleigh McEnany literally just showed the evidence on 12/15. Very easy to find.

 

[Shady Machine]

I just have to say, this is a very weird conversation. We are ALL happy the vaccine is here and historically speaking, this is a medical miracle which should be celebrated. That said, it’s also very true that we have several tough months ahead and we need to continue to be realistic about what’s in front of us.

we all agree! Neat.

Please don’t talk about Kaleigh McEnany though. Seriously can’t find a less credible person on anything if I tried.

 

[NMK11]

It's really narrow-minded to suggest that unless you agree and are positive with everything, you must be against it. Honestly, that's just a developmentally juvenile way to think. Most of us seem to have the bandwidth to be happy there's a vaccine, think it's a triumph of modern science, but still be critical of other things related to the pandemic that are still affecting the world at large.

It's also a tried and true method of propaganda to prevent people from critiquing a government/group/person, but we can save that for another day.

 

[NMK11]

Back on topic, the vaccine distribution of everywhere I've been following has basically rolled out exactly as we all thought. Long term care facilities, first responders, and ICU and ER staff. But that's sort of the easiest part, I don't envy the people who have to make the decisions on how to distribute it once we get past the obvious ones.

 

[ColePens]

I just have to say, this is a very weird conversation. We are ALL happy the vaccine is here and historically speaking, this is a medical miracle which should be celebrated. That said, it’s also very true that we have several tough months ahead and we need to continue to be realistic about what’s in front of us.

we all agree! Neat.

Please don’t talk about Kaleigh McEnany though. Seriously can’t find a less credible person on anything if I tried.

Exactly what you just did really hits to how disappointed I am in how people talk about this pandemic. It goes perfectly to my initial point. So if you hate or disagree with Person A - you will just automatically turn off anything. So when dates and quotes from multiple outlets laughing and fact checking against a vaccine being available by EOY - we just blatantly ignore it because we chose to dislike that person? That's exactly what I do not understand, but I see that's exactly how the media wants it to gain interest and money to get you to tune in. When in reality - America will now be able to save millions across the globe from this horrifying pandemic. What a damn great thing to be proud of.

Even if i disagree with someone completely on lockdown, if they said "Hey.. i think X should happen." My mind does not go straight to "I MUST DISAGREE!" That's just not how i'm built. I take that explanation or comment and i digest no differently than to someone I like. And what you just showed me is because you read a name, you immediately shut it down. That's very disappointing.

I really think we should look at Florida and see what is working and what isn't. We should look to California and see what is working and what isn't. We should look to all sources equally and look for the pros/cons and apply it in a sense that works for us. Because in reality each area is unique and different. Some can go about open and free economy. Some can't. But I truly do wish people would stop immediately shutting something down simply because it doesn't fit in their "side" of things.

 

[Gurglesons]

Exactly what you just did really hits to how disappointed I am in how people talk about this pandemic. It goes perfectly to my initial point. So if you hate or disagree with Person A - you will just automatically turn off anything. So when dates and quotes from multiple outlets laughing and fact checking against a vaccine being available by EOY - we just blatantly ignore it because we chose to dislike that person? That's exactly what I do not understand, but I see that's exactly how the media wants it to gain interest and money to get you to tune in. When in reality - America will now be able to save millions across the globe from this horrifying pandemic. What a damn great thing to be proud of.

Even if i disagree with someone completely on lockdown, if they said "Hey.. i think X should happen." My mind does not go straight to "I MUST DISAGREE!" That's just not how i'm built. I take that explanation or comment and i digest no differently than to someone I like. And what you just showed me is because you read a name, you immediately shut it down. That's very disappointing.

I really think we should look at Florida and see what is working and what isn't. We should look to California and see what is working and what isn't. We should look to all sources equally and look for the pros/cons and apply it in a sense that works for us. Because in reality each area is unique and different. Some can go about open and free economy. Some can't. But I truly do wish people would stop immediately shutting something down simply because it doesn't fit in their "side" of things.

Okay. What isn't working for me in Florida is the state government suppressing their numbers due to an election, firing a whistle blower for bringing this to the media and public's attention, and then using the tax funded police department to then intimidate said whistle blower with automatic weapons and riot gear.

These are what the links I've been posting about the situation illustrate.

 

[Pens1566]

Oh this is so wrong it is unreal. And that's the thing I don't get. It's one thing to be negative, but to then try and change the narrative to say "oh but everyone was saying it! It's not even a big deal!" That is next level stuff.

Do you want me to post about 50 articles telling people the vaccine by end of year would be a miracle? Because it will be EASY to do. Literally up until November people said it would be a miracle. Kayleigh McEnany literally just showed the evidence on 12/15. Very easy to find.

I'm not sure what sources you're getting your info from (although McEnany is quite the example), but I'm not attempting to change any narrative. Fauci, and others with similar expertise, have been quite consistent in their vaccine timelines. Along with cautionary caveats as well. And Jaded Fan and I have been "arguing" politely about it in this forum for as long as I can remember.

 

[ColePens]

Just keep this VERY important part in mind. It is okay to not just dwell on all things negative in this thread and try to hit anyone who wants to take a different approach. We've had many members, some that actually don't even post here at all because they are fans of other teams, send private messages thanking some of the great HFPens members for having a little positive talk. Especially when we joke around in this thread. Why? Because they really needed that mental break from the constant fear of a pandemic. Nobody is undercutting a pandemic. But you can also make just such an amazing impact by even changing some of the tone even in the slightest.

Nobody is saying ignore the negativity. Nobody is saying you have to fake it for others. But if you turned down the endless stream of finding the hole in every single day, you can make a huge difference. I promise you they are out there reading what you post.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

*sigh*

A long, sad read:

PolitiFact - Lie of the Year: Coronavirus downplay and denial

 

[Jacob]

*sigh*

A long, sad read:

PolitiFact - Lie of the Year: Coronavirus downplay and denial

If you had a time machine and you could go back and somehow convince Trump to- not even make any changes in actual policy, but just his rhetoric, retweets and behavior- to simply wear a mask in March and not spread the BS listed in the article, we probably have half as many deaths today.

 

[Gurglesons]

If you had a time machine and you could go back and somehow convince Trump to- not even make any changes in actual policy, but just his rhetoric, retweets and behavior- to simply wear a mask in March and not spread the BS listed in the article, we probably have half as many deaths today.

If I had a time machine I'd go back and stop people from selling bats or whatever. lol.

Also, I'd tell Rutherford Pageau is better than Brassard.

 

[Clare2904]

If you had a time machine and you could go back and somehow convince Trump to- not even make any changes in actual policy, but just his rhetoric, retweets and behavior- to simply wear a mask in March and not spread the BS listed in the article, we probably have half as many deaths today.

I'd go back to November 8th 2016 and rig a few voting machines

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Kayleigh Mcenany is not credible. There is no two sides to this.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Kayleigh Mcenany... lololololololol

Hey guys I have some fresh and totally accurate news about the virus from Baghdad Bob.

 

[NMK11]

Exactly what you just did really hits to how disappointed I am in how people talk about this pandemic. It goes perfectly to my initial point. So if you hate or disagree with Person A - you will just automatically turn off anything. So when dates and quotes from multiple outlets laughing and fact checking against a vaccine being available by EOY - we just blatantly ignore it because we chose to dislike that person? That's exactly what I do not understand, but I see that's exactly how the media wants it to gain interest and money to get you to tune in. When in reality - America will now be able to save millions across the globe from this horrifying pandemic. What a damn great thing to be proud of.

Even if i disagree with someone completely on lockdown, if they said "Hey.. i think X should happen." My mind does not go straight to "I MUST DISAGREE!" That's just not how i'm built. I take that explanation or comment and i digest no differently than to someone I like. And what you just showed me is because you read a name, you immediately shut it down. That's very disappointing.

I really think we should look at Florida and see what is working and what isn't. We should look to California and see what is working and what isn't. We should look to all sources equally and look for the pros/cons and apply it in a sense that works for us. Because in reality each area is unique and different. Some can go about open and free economy. Some can't. But I truly do wish people would stop immediately shutting something down simply because it doesn't fit in their "side" of things.

With this person in particular, does it not matter that she has quite the documented history of saying false and incorrect things? I agree on a certain level that you shouldn't just reflexively dismiss things that don't support you, but after a certain point you have to be able to look at a source and weigh whether it's even attempting to be factual or not.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

It feels you are actively rooting against a state's health? I've found it weird to me when people watch news almost hoping it gets worse for some weird entertainment. It's like "If they wont' lock down, I want them to pay!" And that's a really sad thing.

Science is the pursuit of the truth. I think most of the people in this thread are pro-science. They want accurate information so informed decisions can be made and lives saved.

Then there are people who only look for information to reinforce their own worldview.

 

[NMK11]

Science is the pursuit of the truth. I think most of the people in this thread are pro-science. They want accurate information so informed decisions can be made and lives saved.

Then there are people who only look for information to reinforce their own worldview.

No one in this thread is hoping for bad news or wants things to get worse, not a single post has seriously suggested that. He just has that idea in his head.

 

[ColePens]

With this person in particular, does it not matter that she has quite the documented history of saying false and incorrect things? I agree on a certain level that you shouldn't just reflexively dismiss things that don't support you, but after a certain point you have to be able to look at a source and weigh whether it's even attempting to be factual or not.

So wait... if someone is showing specific headlines from full on credible news sources, that doesn't count? How does this life even work?> Like even if you absolutely despise the person, how do you choose to ignore something so clear?

That doesn't seem even remotely troubling at all?

 

[ColePens]

Science is the pursuit of the truth. I think most of the people in this thread are pro-science. They want accurate information so informed decisions can be made and lives saved.

Then there are people who only look for information to reinforce their own worldview.

So I say this before people claim I'm not a believer of Covid. I have taken more precautions than any person in this thread. Guaranteed.

But the relation to hunger / school closings leading to child malnutrition? We just ignore that? Mental illness? Unemployment leading to hunger and death? Why do we shrug this off? Or better yet... how about CDC noting survival rate is 99+% for 70 and under without pre-existing condition. If we follow science, then....? Or do we only follow science that we want to fit our narrative?

So when people question lockdowns while stuff like that exist and you say "science is the pursuit of the truth", I have to question. Is it?

 

[ColePens]

If you had a time machine and you could go back and somehow convince Trump to- not even make any changes in actual policy, but just his rhetoric, retweets and behavior- to simply wear a mask in March and not spread the BS listed in the article, we probably have half as many deaths today.

Just a quick question. You allude to one individual, but what about Dr. Fauci. Just your quick thoughts from March to present? Serious question. And then maybe brief opinion on CDC and WHO. In the same light, that is.