COVID-19: The final countdown

[ColePens]

Lol. This is happening today. You can’t have your child in school without immunizations. Are you very troubled by a child getting a chicken pox booster too?

School FAQ

New Pa. health rule: Get your kids vaccinated or they can't go to school

I don't have kids but I have a beautiful niece. Our school, being I went to a catholic school, I believe didn't at the time. I'm vaccinated anyway. But I remember my friend's parents were very natural like you said your partner is. Some people on my dad's side are JW. Some of them were against it as well.

But once again - you have dodged the science that doesn't find kids to be a high risk and/or any spreading from a school perspective. So I would look to this science and say we are not in a "betterment of the good" type ethical debate.

 

[Gurglesons]

I don't have kids but I have a beautiful niece. Our school, being I went to a catholic school, I believe didn't at the time. I'm vaccinated anyway. But I remember my friend's parents were very natural like you said your partner is. Some people on my dad's side are JW. Some of them were against it as well.

But once again - you have dodged the science that doesn't find kids to be a high risk and/or any spreading from a school perspective. So I would look to this science and say we are not in a "betterment of the good" type ethical debate.

Neat. They can make their own schools and do that then. The law allows for religious exemptions.

They don’t need to go to a public school if they are not vaccinated tho.

 

[ColePens]

Neat. They can make their own schools and do that then. The law allows for it.

But that's the thing. I gave you that out. I even tried to guide you to it. And you specifically said "Nope.. I want those individual to have inequalities."

So I guess I'll extend the hand again and I'll take your word for it. Are you really saying you want a group of people to have less opportunities?

 

[Gurglesons]

But that's the thing. I gave you that out. I even tried to guide you to it. And you specifically said "Nope.. I want those individual to have inequalities."

So I guess I'll extend the hand again and I'll take your word for it. Are you really saying you want a group of people to have less opportunities?

I don’t want individuals that have not been vaccinated in public schools.

I feel the same way about Polio, HPV, and other required vaccinations.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I don’t want individuals that have not been vaccinated in public schools.

Given that this is going to be an annual vaccine, do you hold kids out each year until they get it?

Or just distribute it 1 week before in the schools?

 

[Gurglesons]

Given that this is going to be an annual vaccine, do you hold kids out each year until they get it?

Or just distribute it 1 week before in the schools?

I’m not a supply chain manager.

 

[PhilThrillPill]

I don't have kids but I have a beautiful niece. Our school, being I went to a catholic school, I believe didn't at the time. I'm vaccinated anyway. But I remember my friend's parents were very natural like you said your partner is. Some people on my dad's side are JW. Some of them were against it as well.

But once again - you have dodged the science that doesn't find kids to be a high risk and/or any spreading from a school perspective. So I would look to this science and say we are not in a "betterment of the good" type ethical debate.

Frontliner here.

Children can die from this and they can definitely transmit it.
Here is the science:
From SARS to COVID-19: What we have learned about children infected with COVID-19 - PubMed
Clinical characteristics of COVID-19 in children: A systematic review - PubMed
Epidemiology of COVID-19 Among Children in China - PubMed

Those are just three recent publications. Many more where that came from. You are one of the people whose opinions I value the most when it comes to the Penguins. But the medical disinformation (unintentional) has got to stop.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I’m not a supply chain manager.

We never required kids to get annual flu shots. IDK, maybe that changes now and/or combined with a COVID shot.

I'm not against requiring vaccination of this annually to get to school. If the vaccine were free and easily available.

 

[Hockey 4 everyone]

Frontliner here.

Children can die from this and they can definitely transmit it.
Here is the science:
From SARS to COVID-19: What we have learned about children infected with COVID-19 - PubMed
Clinical characteristics of COVID-19 in children: A systematic review - PubMed
Epidemiology of COVID-19 Among Children in China - PubMed

Those are just three recent publications. Many more where that came from. You are one of the people whose opinions I value the most when it comes to the Penguins. But the medical disinformation (unintentional) has got to stop.

i am also a medical professional and i also find the amount of misinformation that this poster is routinely sharing very disturbing.

unfortunately i don't have the time to respond to all the incorrect statements he or she consistently makes throughout the day.

this thread frankly is a microcosm of the misinformation that is rampant in this country and has harmed our response to the pandemic.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I ask once more.

Assume that the science of the two Israeli studies which show that vaccination not only protects you from getting Covid-19, but also from spreading it, bears out in larger studies.

Would you require masking and social distancing as we require now to continue. But exempt vaccinated people because the science shows that they no longer are a danger to themselves or others?

And explain how that would be discrimination.

 

[Andy99]

so I’m eligible for a vaccine beginning tomorrow since I’m an “emergency worker”...we got notice 15 minutes ahead of time today that vaccine appointment spots were opening up...so I got on the website...no appointments, finally an appointment, and when I clicked on a time, I told there was error booking it, refresh again for hours and can’t find another appointment...this is absolutely ridiculous...I have to fight hoards of people online for like 12 appointment spots, and what a waste of hours of my day...I’m not doing this day after day...I’d rather get Covid than fight hoards of people crashing a website to look for appointments

 

[Jaded-Fan]

so I’m eligible for a vaccine beginning tomorrow since I’m an “emergency worker”...we got notice 15 minutes ahead of time today that vaccine appointment spots were opening up...so I got on the website...no appointments, finally an appointment, and when I clicked on a time, I told there was error booking it, refresh again for hours and can’t find another appointment...this is absolutely ridiculous...I have to fight hoards of people online for like 12 appointment spots, and what a waste of hours of my day...I’m not doing this day after day...I’d rather get Covid than fight hoards of people crashing a website to look for appointments

Do not get disheartened. I have linked that literally hundreds of millions of shots are coming. We are up to around 15 million shots a week. Keep trying, you will get an appointment.

 

[Fordy]

Lol. This is happening today. You can’t have your child in school without immunizations. Are you very troubled by a child getting a chicken pox booster too?

School FAQ

New Pa. health rule: Get your kids vaccinated or they can't go to school

that is completely different. personally i never got a chicken pox shot, my parents took me to get chicken pox on purpose. wasn't a big deal

 

[Fordy]

delete

 

[Fordy]

I'm fine with people being anti-vax. My partner has been that way, she's a spiritual person who doesn't believe certain medical things. That being said, if you don't want to get a vaccination it should limit your opportunities. If you don't have the proper vaccination you can't go to school same with employers requiring vaccination.

Situation goes both ways. You can't force your unvaccinated body into a place where expectation is that you are vaccinated.

personally i find it bizarre and alienating to refer to people just trying to live their life as "forcing their unvaccinated body into a place"

 

[ColePens]

i am also a medical professional and i also find the amount of misinformation that this poster is routinely sharing very disturbing.

unfortunately i don't have the time to respond to all the incorrect statements he or she consistently makes throughout the day.

this thread frankly is a microcosm of the misinformation that is rampant in this country and has harmed our response to the pandemic.

"Misinformation" buzz word bingo! Last time you claimed the White House wasn't a source under the new administration. This time maybe you will say the same about that pesky CDC!

Infection Fatality Ratio†	0-19 years: 0.00002

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

COVID-19 Pandemic Planning Scenarios | CDC


Sarcasm aside, this is important to understand why throwing around words like misinformation is not cool. The white house, CDC, and I'll throw in the American Academy of Pediatrics.

Flu: During the 2018-19 flu season, the CDC reported approximately 480 flu deaths among children ages 0-17, about 30% of whom had a lab-confirmed case of influenza.

Covid: Comparably, 90 American youth have died from coronavirus complications from the beginning of the pandemic through mid-August, according to the American Academy of Pediatrics.

Now I want to be very clear. A mother or father burying a son or daughter is terrible. This hits very close to me as I had to unfortunately go to funerals of friends who didn't make it to their 20s. I watched young mothers next to caskets. It was horrifying and I never want a single mother or father to go through it. But while I understand my emotions, I am not going to close my eyes and look the other way of true science.

I think you should probably apologize for misusing the word "misinformation" as it is thrown around far too easily today. And look.. I get it.. we can both be internet tough but I just don't care. I love you no matter what you think of me. Drop your narrative. Drop your team warfare. And even if it's through PM, I do think an apology would be warranted here.

 

[ChaosAgent]

"Misinformation" buzz word bingo! Last time you claimed the White House wasn't a source under the new administration. This time maybe you will say the same about that pesky CDC!

Infection Fatality Ratio†	0-19 years: 0.00002

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

COVID-19 Pandemic Planning Scenarios | CDC


Sarcasm aside, this is important to understand why throwing around words like misinformation is not cool. The white house, CDC, and I'll throw in the American Academy of Pediatrics.




Now I want to be very clear. A mother or father burying a son or daughter is terrible. This hits very close to me as I had to unfortunately go to funerals of friends who didn't make it to their 20s. I watched young mothers next to caskets. It was horrifying and I never want a single mother or father to go through it. But while I understand my emotions, I am not going to close my eyes and look the other way of true science.

I think you should probably apologize for misusing the word "misinformation" as it is thrown around far too easily today. And look.. I get it.. we can both be internet tough but I just don't care. I love you no matter what you think of me. Drop your narrative. Drop your team warfare. And even if it's through PM, I do think an apology would be warranted here.

Beyond that, Doctors who work in hospitals who see the worst of the worst cases are going to have a skewed perspective.

Can bad stuff happen with COVID? Absolutely. And it has. Even to kids. But from the beginning I think we've lost a sense of proportionality. Life comes with risk. Death at some point is inevitable. We had a memorial for the 500K people who died of COVID but not for the 2.8M people who died from other stuff last year.

I also think the internet echo chamber doesn't affect reality of how people actually feel about it and the restrictions.
(Going full ColePens here)
The weather's better. Walk outside. Wave to your neighbors. Stalk Patric Hornqvist. Grab takeout from a restaurant. Smile behind the mask. People now recognize even eye gestures as part of smiling (Bob freaking Errey mentioned this on a broadcast recently lol). Let's remember that it's not just enough to prevent death from a single infectious disease; we have to maintain a life worth living.

 

[Andy99]

Good news guys...after painfully refreshing the Covid appointment page this morning multiple times I finally landed on an appointment...getting my vaccine tomorrow!

 

[Gurglesons]

Good news guys...after painfully refreshing the Covid appointment page this morning multiple times I finally landed on an appointment...getting my vaccine tomorrow!

Good to hear.

 

[Andy99]

Good to hear.

whether it will help with the new Covid mutation in CA who knows lol...I may be back in a couple months for a different vaccine ...

 

[Fogel]

Surprised no one has mentioned it yet, but looks like J&J has the data for a decent chance on getting emergency authorization on its vaccine. It doesn't seem to be as effective as the mRNA vaccines, but it is a one dose vaccine, was getting studied when the more dangerous variants were active and just requires a regular refrigerator versus a subzero fridge which is key to certain parts of the world.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Surprised no one has mentioned it yet, but looks like J&J has the data for a decent chance on getting emergency authorization on its vaccine. It doesn't seem to be as effective as the mRNA vaccines, but it is a one dose vaccine, was getting studied when the more dangerous variants were active and just requires a regular refrigerator versus a subzero fridge which is key to certain parts of the world.

Sounds like a better vaccine candidate in every way. I think the question, for here, is whether they can scale up production quickly enough. For most of us it's not worth waiting another 3-4 months to get the J&J shot.

For people that are freaked out by mRNA it's a great alternative.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Great article with some great news. I linked this earlier but now there are more studies backing it up.

But a growing body of evidence suggests the Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna vaccines do, in fact, cut down on viral transmission. Two recent studies show some pretty favorable results — one from the UK that found that two doses of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine cut down by 86 percent someone’s chances of developing an infection that they could pass along, the other a study in Israel that found an 89.4 percent reduction (though it should be noted that the Israeli study has yet to be fully released). These findings are consistent with what we know about vaccines and transmission in general.

In other words, even as we wait for more definitive studies on the vaccines’ effects on transmission, more and more scientists think we do have enough information to feel pretty good about the vaccines’ capacity to give us back a semblance of normalcy as we approach a year of life in a pandemic.

And I say again. The only logical thing is to continue to require masking and social distancing, as most scientist have called for, going forward. Until Herd Immunity. Likely until 2022.

HOWEVER, with this news, if you get the vaccine there is no reason for you to have to be part of that. You not only are 95% protected but you are also 90% less likely to transmit the virus to others. This is not penalizing people for the choice not to vaccinate. It is simply following the science. If you make the choice not to vaccinate you simply follow what they were going to have everyone do anyways. But if you vaccinate you are highly unlikely to get, or to transmit, the virus, and if you do it will be much milder.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Sounds like a better vaccine candidate in every way. I think the question, for here, is whether they can scale up production quickly enough. For most of us it's not worth waiting another 3-4 months to get the J&J shot.

For people that are freaked out by mRNA it's a great alternative.

Hopefully people will get used to the concept. It is the future. The efficacy is much much higher than normal vaccines. Close to 90% vs. the usual 60%. And not only is it cheaper and faster to produce, and is viable for the not insubstantial number with allergies to eggs, but it means no virus at all goes into your body. Simply a protein to trigger your defense mechanism. I feel safer injecting a protein into myself than a supposedly dead or genetically altered actual virus. Mistakes have happened with those, although it has been a while.

An example. Two hundred thousand children in 1955 were mistakenly given live polio virus in their vaccine. Forty thousand ended up getting polio.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/hist...polio-vaccine-paralyzed-children-coronavirus/

 

[Beau Knows]

And I say again. The only logical thing is to continue to require masking and social distancing, as most scientist have called for, going forward. Until Herd Immunity. Likely until 2022.

HOWEVER, with this news, if you get the vaccine there is no reason for you to have to be part of that. You not only are 95% protected but you are also 90% less likely to transmit the virus to others. This is not penalizing people for the choice not to vaccinate. It is simply following the science. If you make the choice not to vaccinate you simply follow what they were going to have everyone do anyways. But if you vaccinate you are highly unlikely to get, or to transmit, the virus, and if you do it will be much milder.

There is practicality issue with that though isn't there? Like the grocery store probably isn't going to want to employ another person just to check for vaccination proof at the door to allow just those people to enter maskless. Otherwise you just have to have an honour system and trust that people wouldn't abuse it, which I have little doubt that too many would. It seems easier to just require everyone to wear one until they're not needed at all.

Social distancing, I for sure agree with you. If your group of family or friends have all been vaccinated, there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to get together.