COVID-19: The final countdown

Discussion in 'Pittsburgh Penguins' started by ColePens, Dec 12, 2020.

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  1. Beau Knows Captain Canada

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    I don't think most businesses will require vaccinations (for customers at least), and in some industries the legality of it is questionable, from what I understand. I think the government would have to be the ones to put vaccination requirements in place on say, airlines, otherwise they'll want to avoid legal battles and losing business to airlines that don't enforce it. I think most businesses will just continue with mask and social distancing requirements while easing some restrictions/opening up until the majority of the population is vaccinated. So essentially the benefit of the continually increasing percentage of the population getting vaccinated would be more business opening up and easing restrictions to everyone, rather than everything being open with no restrictions to those who are vaccinated.

    One thing I hope people learn from this is to be more considerate when they are sick. The number of people you see at the store or at work (thankfully I started working from home years ago) coughing, sneezing and looking like hell during flu season every year is ridiculous. I wish people would just order their groceries online or have a friend pick them up when they're sick. But that also extends to the government, for instance Ontario has no paid sick day requirements, so minimum wage workers often can't really afford to take the day off and have little choice but to get others sick, that has to change.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2021 at 2:22 PM
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  2. Jaded-Fan Registered User

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    Between every company with which the U.S. has contracts, both the Trump and Biden administrations have secured enough pre-ordered doses to vaccinate the entire U.S. population almost twice over. By July.

    COVID vaccine makers pledge massive supply increase

     
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  3. BHD Thanks, Jim

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    No new cases in New Brunswick today... 75 active cases.
     
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  4. ColePens RIP parabola & Fugu

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    This is quite the lazy argument, is it not? I could turn that around so easily, but I really don't even have to. It's a very lazy mindset.

    I always have to remind people before they take it out of context - once our vulnerable get their shots, I will gladly get mine. I get the flu shot every year because my dad's doctor recommends family members get it. I remember when a few people here were VERY anti-vaccination and I would just share my opinion on it.

    But I go to this same mindset every time that I see hypocrisy in. Consistency in message. What drives your message? Narrative or values/discipline/principles? And this isn't against you, Pixie, as I love having conversations with you. Sometimes we are on the same page. Sometimes we are oppositions. I feel it ends with mutual respect. But I am seeing this very (both sides) hypocritical narrative mindset that as long as we stay with our team, then the answer makes sense. But there has been a bit of bullying of opinion for far too long. I remember all the members here who shit on Florida. None of them come back to the conversation. I'm one of the few that stand up and say "I was wrong in April/May when I called them out." Everyone else hides, turns a blind eye, and will continue to look down on them. I don't get it.

    But what drives my answer is choice. I have my opinion on it, but one thing I never want to do is force a fellow peer as if my opinion SHOULD be theirs. So if even my father was like "Son.. I don't believe in it and I don't want it." We would have a heart to heart conversation about the risk. At the end of the day, I would respect the opinion and do my best. So I don't have two separate answers. It's consistency in pretty much every single topic we have.
     
  5. Gurglesons Registered User

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    I'm fine with people being anti-vax. My partner has been that way, she's a spiritual person who doesn't believe certain medical things. That being said, if you don't want to get a vaccination it should limit your opportunities. If you don't have the proper vaccination you can't go to school same with employers requiring vaccination.

    Situation goes both ways. You can't force your unvaccinated body into a place where expectation is that you are vaccinated.
     
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  6. Beau Knows Captain Canada

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    Not a single case of flu detected by Public Health England in 2021

     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2021 at 2:59 PM
  7. Jaded-Fan Registered User

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    This is my view. I am a free will individual. Your choices are your own and I will not judge.

    Until your actions impact others. That is when your free will can be limited in my book.

    In this case until there is actual herd immunity you can, and will, kill others who would have otherwise remained alive. Not one person individually, but collectively it is a certainty.

    On a lesser impact the rest of us will have to wear masks and social distance for a significant amount of time more than we would otherwise have to do. Maybe even a year extra. Not a huge deal, but why make us all go through that because some refuse to go along? It seems fair to me to make them pay for that choice by restrictions. We do similar all the time. You have to get a license to drive a car, or simply can't drive. You have to drive 55 or below or may pay a hefty fine, and even eventually lose the right to drive. You commit a crime you go to jail.

    In this case being able to be maskless and not have to social distance in public places will be something granted to some early if they get vaccinated. If not you will have to mask and distance. It seems like a fair tradeoff to me.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2021 at 3:39 PM
  8. The Old Master Registered User

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    if its for religion reasons, i don't see how you could ban them. [unless privately owned] just thinking how it could be expanded to other areas.
     
  9. Jaded-Fan Registered User

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    What about not banning but making them mask and social distance if they CHOOSE to come in. Where those vaccinated, assuming that the science behind the two Israeli studies, which show the vaccine also reduces your transmitting the virus to almost zero, bears out, can return to almost normal? No masks, no social distancing. Not forever, but until herd immunity is reached.
     
  10. Gurglesons Registered User

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    They or those claiming disabilities would be protected by Title VII or ADA, if they can legitimately get protected by Title VII or ADA.

    But, this shouldn't be the gong show that is "service animals".
     
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  11. DocEmrickSkitters Registered User

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    "Georgia's Experiment in Human Sacrifice" - The Atlantic Headline read.

    Goes to show you how truly close-minded (people can be *mod edit*)

    I even agree with (most) of their views. But make no mistake - and I went to one of the better liberal arts schools in the country - most of them are totally insulated in their views in their Social Media/Twittersphere. They worship the blue check.
     
    Last edited by moderator ColePens: Feb 23, 2021 at 5:11 PM
  12. Gurglesons Registered User

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    Florida is currently still getting their ass pushed in regarding COVID cases compared to the rest of the country slowing down.
     
  13. Factorial Registered User

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    Well said.
     
  14. Pens1566 Registered User

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  15. ColePens RIP parabola & Fugu

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    I have to say.. in a world where we would hope for equality in many different facets, purposely telling people they should have limited opportunities is quite interesting. Especially with the science we know behind this disease. Once the vaccine is out there for everyone to take, it's their responsibility at the end of the day. Saying they would have limited opportunities.... just not cool.

    I will very much agree to disagree. I go back to my principles/values comment here. Forceful inequality would tick a box that I am not down with. I'll give you a chance to redeem that as I cannot believe you meant it in that way.

    Do you mean... opportunities MAY be limited if you don't want to get the vaccine because some corporations may mandate it? If that's the case, I think that is valid. Man... "should limit your opportunities" is your verbiage.
     
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  16. Gurglesons Registered User

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    No. That’s exactly what I mean.

    Most schools require proof of vaccination.
     
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  17. 2wayPlay Registered User

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    Scary that people actually have this perspective of how everyone should behave and act. Scary but not surprising unfortunately.
     
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  18. ColePens RIP parabola & Fugu

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    For kids especially, the flu has been more dangerous than Covid. There is no evidence of widespread pandemic in schools. So I would say there is not enough science to force that. And what you just admitted to is forcing inequality. That is a sad and dangerous road. I am going to agree to disagree.

    And here is an example as to why: If you do not force vaccines and you let businesses choose themselves, you create a natural evolution of how it will go. If Southwest says VACCINE CARD NEEDED, people will have to choose if they want to fly SW or not. It's that simple. That's SW's right to make that choice because it's not against any law. They mandate a vaccine. That's simple. Choose another airline, get the vaccine, or drive.

    Did you see how I left that person with 3 choices that all bring out equality? I also left the business with a choice for what they want to and it will be driven by what their customers want. It's basic principles of business. The market was able to decide within the guidelines of what our government gave us. Our government gave us guidelines and foundation law. Businesses operated under those guidelines. Consumers chose what they wanted. That is pretty equal for me.

    Now in your scenario... FORCEFUL inequality doesn't play out the same. You create a cultural war of "You don't have a card on you, so you deserve less." There is proof of that creation by the ole blue eye/green eye school experiment. Now you basically said a certain group is better than the other and you literally said they deserve more. That is very troubling. That is very troubling.
     
  19. ColePens RIP parabola & Fugu

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    I will be honest.. i legit dropped my jaw as I read it. I couldn't believe it and it was like a movie. I just stared and had to re-read it multiple times.

    And i'm not like everyone else on the internet. I won't sit there and use that comment forever against a person. I let them explain what they meant, and then I trust their word. Typically on twitter someone will tell another person what they meant. :laugh: It's silly.

    But to be fair, they confirmed that is legit what they meant. So that's where two people shake hands, grab a beer, and agree to disagree.
     
  20. Gurglesons Registered User

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    Lol. This is happening today. You can’t have your child in school without immunizations. Are you very troubled by a child getting a chicken pox booster too?

    School FAQ

    New Pa. health rule: Get your kids vaccinated or they can't go to school
     
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  21. Gurglesons Registered User

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    Scary how this is basically already the law and people on the internet act surprised to learn it.
     
  22. PhilThrillPill Registered User

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    I will second this and say that here in Ontario, a child must have proof of vaccination of Tetanus.
    A disease that is not spread from person to person. It does not endanger the other kids in the classroom and yet the government will not let a child attend school without it.

    Although COVID-19 will cause little to no symptoms in an overwhelming majority of children it can later cause a secondary disease called Multisystem Inflammatory Syndrome which is devastating:
    COVID-19 and Your Health

    Furthermore, children are most certainly a possible vector for transmitting the disease.

    When deemed safe for children this should most definitely be added to the list of vaccines required for kids to attend school in Ontario.

    I will be heading back to Israel soon and I think that they are providing the world with a great example of how to push forward the vaccination of an entire population and they are now pushing forward laws which would enable businesses to open and to only accept vaccinated customers. Furthermore, they are looking into how businesses should be able to decide for themselves whether they can terminate an employees contract if they decide not to vaccinate if they fear that it will lead to customers not coming to their place of business.

    -"Your Liberty To Swing Your Fist Ends Just Where My Nose Begins".
     
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  23. Gurglesons Registered User

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    TBH, I’m fine with letting businesses choose what to do as @ColePens alluded to. But I’d push and have and continue will only support business following COVID protocol in San Diego
     
  24. PhilThrillPill Registered User

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    Businesses should have the option of choosing what to do.
    However, if for instance gatherings are limited to X individuals for the safety of the ENTIRE community, a business should be given several options:
    A. Limited gatherings if you choose to accept non vaccined clients or employees in person - which is clearly bad for business
    B. Less restrictions if you only accept vaccined clients\employees

    It just makes complete sense from a purely epidemiological point of view. Otherwise why are we currently limiting gatherings? Is that unethical as well?

    As we say in Hebrew. Humanity needs to "stop being more righteous than the pope" and to start letting common sense dictate actions and decisions.
     
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  25. Gurglesons Registered User

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    This is one of the cases where America’s philosophy has been morphed into I before we the people.
     
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