COVID-19: The final countdown

[EightyOne]

I respect the posts you make Jaded and think you are a fairly intelligent individual however.........

Stop the Vax shaming man. Not everyone who is young and healthy will want to inject something relatively unknown into their body. At the end of the day it should be a choice for individuals to make. Some point down the road when more scientific data is out then maybe it should be a more mandated Vax. If you want it so bad go get it and good for you! My parents both got it because they are upper 60s and wanted it. Just sick of the belittling mindset on here.

So why is it more okay for someone 60 to inject something unknown than someone who is 30?

 

[ColePens]

So why is it more okay for someone 60 to inject something unknown than someone who is 30?

Oh... I think there is a very valid answer here. One has nearly zero chance of death and the other does.

I mean that has to count as a legit answer. One set of people unfortunately need to take the vaccine for the mere fact of getting back to normalcy. The other group can get back to normal now. This is science backed.

Now I would just simply take it when it comes to me, but I will also respect anyone's decision not to for whatever reason. It's their choice.

 

[2wayPlay]

Oh... I think there is a very valid answer here. One has nearly zero chance of death and the other does.

I mean that has to count as a legit answer. One set of people unfortunately need to take the vaccine for the mere fact of getting back to normalcy. The other group can get back to normal now. This is science backed.

Now I would just simply take it when it comes to me, but I will also respect anyone's decision not to for whatever reason. It's their choice.

As usual Cole right on the money. Hell when it’s my turn my wife and I might get it even though we are not in the age risk group. But it’s clearly obvious my parents are taking the risk because they are upper 60s and could die.

 

[Fordy]

So why is it more okay for someone 60 to inject something unknown than someone who is 30?

it's ok for anyone to choose to, not ok to force people that don't want to

 

[Clare2904]

Vaccine booked for Friday at 10.05

 

[Factorial]

it's ok for anyone to choose to, not ok to force people that don't want to

How about the airlines not letting you fly unless you get the vaccine? Or the Pens not allowing you to attend games unless you have the vaccine?

 

[ColePens]

How about the airlines not letting you fly unless you get the vaccine? Or the Pens not allowing you to attend games unless you have the vaccine?

This is very different from a government or state telling you. Very different. If airlines want to take that gamble and they lose half of their flights, they are going to have to make a decision for themselves. But that's a business decision between the owners of that business. If Southwest drops the need for vaccine and starts firing off, Delta will follow. Or.. vice versa.

Do you see what people want? True equality in decisions. It's that simple. The restaurant owner has to make this decision. They can say "Hey.. no more masks. We are done." Their consumers will know that up front and make their decision. Same thing for airlines. Same thing for the Pittsburgh Penguins. If the Penguins say "You guys can come, but can't scream!" Then so be it. That's my choice after that as a consumer to support or not.

So i would say businesses can make the decisions they want. It will work out what the majority want.

 

[Pens1566]

Even states can require vaccines, with varying limited exceptions, for public schools. That has been settled law going back 100 or so years. Dividing line is that they can't require a person to receive the vaccine, but things can be limited based on whether or not they've had it.

 

[ColePens]

Even states can require vaccines, with varying limited exceptions, for public schools. That has been settled law going back 100 or so years. Dividing line is that they can't require a person to receive the vaccine, but things can be limited based on whether or not they've had it.

The state of Pennsylvania should probably have to forfeit telling anyone what to do after botching just about everything you can in life. They have let so many people down it is sickening.

Obviously exaggeration but... Sorta true.

 

[BHD]

Only one new case (Edmundston) in New Brunswick today. The province currently has 84 active cases.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

The state of Pennsylvania should probably have to forfeit telling anyone what to do after botching just about everything you can in life. They have let so many people down it is sickening.

Obviously exaggeration but... Sorta true.

The sad thing is that they STILL don't have their act together. I mean I get it. I am human. I have screwed up in my life, just like everyone else. But when called on it I would always try ten times harder to do better. Like most people. Pennsylvania seems to not give a damn. As stubborn as Bylsma on his worst night.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

This is very different from a government or state telling you. Very different. If airlines want to take that gamble and they lose half of their flights, they are going to have to make a decision for themselves. But that's a business decision between the owners of that business. If Southwest drops the need for vaccine and starts firing off, Delta will follow. Or.. vice versa.

Do you see what people want? True equality in decisions. It's that simple. The restaurant owner has to make this decision. They can say "Hey.. no more masks. We are done." Their consumers will know that up front and make their decision. Same thing for airlines. Same thing for the Pittsburgh Penguins. If the Penguins say "You guys can come, but can't scream!" Then so be it. That's my choice after that as a consumer to support or not.

So i would say businesses can make the decisions they want. It will work out what the majority want.

1) Do you not believe in security checks by a government agency at airports either? Or should people be able to carry weapons on planes if those corporations allow it?

2) As for the bolded, the obvious counter-example is segregation, which was a decision made by business owners. Was eliminating that government overreach?

 

[ColePens]

1) Do you not believe in security checks by a government agency at airports either? Or should people be able to carry weapons on planes if those corporations allow it?

2) As for the bolded, the obvious counter-example is segregation, which was a decision made by business owners. Was eliminating that government overreach?

1) TSA legit does nothing. But once again - I am for what businesses feel they need to do within the parameters of our constitution. I'm sure we can debate one-off scenarios all day long like it's an ethics class. I want my government to set the boundaries and leave me the hell alone. Let me live within those boundaries and stop moving the goal posts every 1 week. We are so far gone from "15 days to flatten the curve!" it is ridiculous. And i'd be fine if they were consistent across the board to everyone, but they weren't. And that's the inconsistency that I will call out 24/7.

2) I'm a firm believer God made us all equal - man, woman, any color, any identification, any differences. I'm not anti-government in any way. I just don't need them in every facet of my life. The government has its place. To act like i'm anti-government would be absurd. That would be a reach. But in regards to what we are seeing today, I couldn't be any more disgusted with what is happening in our beautiful state.

If by now you can't look at Florida and realize how damn good they were. They are the OLDEST state in the country. I mean you can technically say Maine is the oldest population, but 1.34m compared to 21.5m is a significant difference and they are in the bottom half of deaths/mil.

And this extends red/blue so don't even go into a political side thing. So many people are just hell bent on being Mike Sullivan style stubborn. And it really does hold the country back. Everyone looked at Florida as the devil and I thought scrutiny at first was deserved without a lot of science. But as they proved to be right over time, I cannot even fathom how many people still look at Florida like they are crazy. Why can't we adapt and be like "Oh shit.. Florida was right. Let's follow that lead!"

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Cole, my question is this.

Israel went north of 80 percent vaccinated. I linked where they are going to allow free access to movies, gyms, restaurants, and on and on ONLY for those with proof of vaccination.

We are going to get to the point, maybe by spring, by summer certainly, that everyone who wants to be vaccinated will be vaccinated in this county.

At that point those vaccinated are not going to be happy having to continue to mask and distance solely because their neighbors refuse the vaccine.

Now finally the question. If all of the above plays out as I predict, would you be in favor of opening everything mask and social distance free, but like Israel did, only for those who prove vaccination? No one is forcing anyone to do anything. But is there a 'right' to access if you refuse to comply? Or do you have a right by saying no to vaccination to force everyone else into continued masking and distancing for an extra year or more?

 

[ChaosAgent]

Cole, my question is this.

Israel went north of 80 percent vaccinated. I linked where they are going to allow free access to movies, gyms, restaurants, and on and on ONLY for those with proof of vaccination.

We are going to get to the point, maybe by spring, by summer certainly, that everyone who wants to be vaccinated will be vaccinated in this county.

At that point those vaccinated are not going to be happy having to continue to mask and distance solely because their neighbors refuse the vaccine.

Now finally the question. If all of the above plays out as I predict, would you be in favor of opening everything mask and social distance free, but like Israel did, only for those who prove vaccination? No one is forcing anyone to do anything. But is there a 'right' to access if you refuse to comply? Or do you have a right by saying no to vaccination to force everyone else into continued masking and distancing for an extra year or more?

The government should allow everything to be open.

Private businesses - like your cafes run by people on a certain end of the political spectrum or IDK private liberal arts universities like the one I attended - can do as they please in asking for vaccination records or a mask to be served.

Establishments have a right to deny you in their place of business but the government should not. Not once the danger is over which will be here in 1-2 months.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I just thought of a compromise.

Recent findings are that once vaccinated you are highly unlikely to spread the virus. I linked those articles recently.


COVID-19 Vaccine Efficiency Has Been Put to Test - Sheba Medical Center

This means the vaccine works wonderfully,” said Prof. Gili Regev-Yohai, Director of the Infection Prevention and Control Unit at Sheba Medical Center and head of the study, who added: “The results of the study are consistent with Pfizer’s survey, and even exceeded expectations… there is certainly cause for optimism.” According to Regev-Yohai, the findings suggest that individuals who receive both doses of the vaccine will not only be protected from COVID-19 infection, but will also avoid becoming carriers of the virus, and thus may help to prevent the spread of the disease.

So like a club where you need a stamp to get served alcohol, similar could be done with those vaccinated, ban all restrictions on masking and distancing are waived. No proof, no stamp or similar, you are restricted. Masks. Distancing.

That would be required everywhere, public and private places.

Would you have a problem with that?

 

[ColePens]

Cole, my question is this.

Israel went north of 80 percent vaccinated. I linked where they are going to allow free access to movies, gyms, restaurants, and on and on ONLY for those with proof of vaccination.

We are going to get to the point, maybe by spring, by summer certainly, that everyone who wants to be vaccinated will be vaccinated in this county.

At that point those vaccinated are not going to be happy having to continue to mask and distance solely because their neighbors refuse the vaccine.

Now finally the question. If all of the above plays out as I predict, would you be in favor of opening everything mask and social distance free, but like Israel did, only for those who prove vaccination? No one is forcing anyone to do anything. But is there a 'right' to access if you refuse to comply? Or do you have a right by saying no to vaccination to force everyone else into continued masking and distancing for an extra year or more?

I think we have to give credit to Isreal for one thing. They said "Hey.. get the vaccine and it's normal again!" Fauci is out there with the most laughable assortment of clips where he claims we probably won't be normal until 2030. This dude is a joke. It's all about narrative. IF you push a positive narrative, people will go get it.

While I don't believe AT ALL in forcing people to get vaccinated, I think they are doing a great job selling it in a positive way and the people have engaged. You have to tip your cap to that leadership.

 

[ColePens]

I just thought of a compromise.

Recent findings are that once vaccinated you are highly unlikely to spread the virus. I linked those articles recently.


COVID-19 Vaccine Efficiency Has Been Put to Test - Sheba Medical Center




So like a club where you need a stamp to get served alcohol, similar could be done with those vaccinated, ban all restrictions on masking and distancing are waived. No proof, no stamp or similar, you are restricted. Masks. Distancing.

That would be required everywhere, public and private places.

Would you have a problem with that?

No. You and I have talked. You know I cannot wait til the vulnerable are vaccinated and I'll gladly roll up my sleeve and get one. You know i'm very into it.

But this is forceful. I do not agree with this. I think that's very bad.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I just thought of a compromise.

Recent findings are that once vaccinated you are highly unlikely to spread the virus. I linked those articles recently.


COVID-19 Vaccine Efficiency Has Been Put to Test - Sheba Medical Center


So like a club where you need a stamp to get served alcohol, similar couple be done with those vaccinated,band all restrictions on masking and distancing are waived. No proof, no stamp or similar, you are restricted. Masks. Distancing.

That would be required everywhere, public and private places.

Would you have a problem with that?

I would have a problem with the government required that.

The vast majority of people want to get vaccinated and will. Many more people have had COVID already and reinfection is not going to be as severe as the first go-round. We had a roaring 20s without actually solving the Spanish Flu and I see no reason we need to set up a testing/authorization complex in perpetuity. If a workplace or restaurant or airline wants to require it, sure go ahead. Or a school. Or the Penguins at the Paintcan.

Keep the mask mandates until like 50% of people have been vaccinated (should be around May-June) and then let them go by the wayside. Between vaccination immunity, natural immunity, more vaccination and also behavioral changes from people that will occur with or without mandates we will be fine.

Again if people are freaked out they can congregate in the super adherent spaces. There's a great business model for a bar to be vaccine-only if they want to. Have a bouncer check you vaccine paper or authorization on your phone.

Also I'm just gonna say it. 12.5% of my paycheck goes to old people. The restrictions we all endured over the last year were for those same old people. Now they get the shot first so they get total freedom? No.

Finally, do you just restart this whole "restrict you until you've got the shot" every single year if the thing becomes an annual vaccine?

 

[ChaosAgent]

I think we have to give credit to Isreal for one thing. They said "Hey.. get the vaccine and it's normal again!" Fauci is out there with the most laughable assortment of clips where he claims we probably won't be normal until 2030. This dude is a joke. It's all about narrative. IF you push a positive narrative, people will go get it.

While I don't believe AT ALL in forcing people to get vaccinated, I think they are doing a great job selling it in a positive way and the people have engaged. You have to tip your cap to that leadership.

Anthony Fauci has always believed in stoking public fear as a means to an end. Like when you leave a Doctor's office and they give you a list of unrealistic, cover-their-butt demands and you roll your eyes and go "sure doc." It's abstinence-only sex ed logic.

From the first press conference you knew he would have erred on the side of perpetual lockdown if he had the ability to do so. He was granted that power by the public/media only because the Orange clashed with him and everyone hates the Orange. The Orange had a laissez-faire approach to the pandemic and so the opposite reaction was to take a Maximalist, Authoritarian approach to the thing. Be seen doing something! The Sam Lafferty of public policy responses. Well now they've got some people so afraid that kids in San Francisco, LA and Chicago may never go back to school (aside from private and charter of course).


Also, on Israel: Israel is a great place for vaccination in general. Obvious national identity, Authoritarian for obvious reasons, has compulsory military service, and is a place that is all about innovation. Israel is a land of start-ups. And of course it's small.
Someday I'd like to visit and if they make me show vaccination papers I'd be happy to do so.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

My fear is mask wearing and social distancing until well into 2022. The jury is still out if we can shorten that time frame or not. But it is depressing as hell to think that we will be living with these same restrictions for another full year or more.

 

[ChaosAgent]

My fear is mask wearing and social distancing until well into 2022. The jury is still out if we can shorten that time frame or not. But it is depressing as hell to think that we will be living with these same restrictions for another full year or more.

People will mask-wear and social distance on their own and at businesses who want them to, but the government mandates will have to end.

Given how slow the rollout of the vaccine has been and how inaccessible it is, it would be a joke for the US government to set up a 2-tiered system based on "shot or not." If it were as easy to get as the Flu shot or as it was in Israel apparently I'd maybe, maybe feel differently.

 

[Gurglesons]

No. You and I have talked. You know I cannot wait til the vulnerable are vaccinated and I'll gladly roll up my sleeve and get one. You know i'm very into it.

But this is forceful. I do not agree with this. I think that's very bad.

It already happens in many ways with similar diseases from the past.

I feel like people make things much more complex then they need to be.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Some good news. Not world wide, but here in the USA. Despite the bad roll outs in some sections of the country, most other countries are doing worse. Much worse.

It’s true that Israel, which benefited from its countrywide electronic medical-record system and its decision to buy lots of vaccine doses relative to its population, has the U.S. beat. The United Arab Emirates is also lapping much of the world, immunizing people of all ages using China’s vaccine. The United Kingdom, which authorized the Pfizer-BioNTech shot in December, before any other Western nation, is performing especially well relative to the rest of the globe. The U.K.’s apparent lead over the U.S. is at least in part due to its decision to start mass vaccinations by giving the first dose of the two-dose regimen to as many people as possible, a strategy called “First Doses First.”

But despite lost doses and frustrating vaccine websites, the U.S. is vaccinating its residents faster than any member of the European Union—which may be surprising, given that so many European health-care systems are touted as being more efficient than America’s. As of this writing, the U.S. has vaccinated 15.9 people out of every 100, while Germany has vaccinated just five, France has reached four, and Croatia less than three. The U.S. government, finally, appears to have done something right.

Still, this story is more about the foibles of the European Union than the triumph of the United States. The EU worried that if it left each of its member countries to acquire vaccines for itself, smaller and poorer nations wouldn’t be able to buy enough. European leaders bet that, by negotiating for vaccines as a bloc, they could match America’s purchasing power.

The One Area Where the U.S. COVID-19 Strategy Seems to Be Working

 

[Fordy]

How about the airlines not letting you fly unless you get the vaccine? Or the Pens not allowing you to attend games unless you have the vaccine?

sounds like a terrible world to live in which no one should support