News Article: COVID 19 POSITIVITY THREAD: Useful links, hopeful news etc

[Ducky10]

I would also like to say that if you are not a tinfoil hat person with the amount of information available, then you just aren't paying attention. Where there is smoke, there is usually fire (not always of course), which we tend to selectively forget at times.

There is definitely a lot of information available, but people choose their own facts.

 

[Eyeseeing]

Sure, but when one view is just plain bonkers...

Birds of a feather of certain ilk will always think the other side is bonkers.
That’s what makes this place so fun.

 

[scelaton]

Yes they could have. But what happens when we open back up after that “brief” intervention? Does the virus just disappear, never to return?
We’ve learned that virus don’t do that. This one is no different.
So to be intellectually honest, the debate should really be either we shut it all down until a safe vaccine is available, or keep the economy wide open and hope the damage done by the virus is less than the emotional and economic damage ensuing from a full shutdown.

The "brief intervention" is to stop exponential spread and prevent overwhelming hospitals. When we reopen, we are at a lower part of the growth curve. By now this is more than theoretical, is happening all over the world, including in our own backyard. Decisions are being made about who gets the last remaining ICU bed; surgeries have/are being cancelled or delayed by the thousands..

There will be sacrifices required over the next 6 months, but fortunately there appears to be a vaccine on the horizon. That is, if you believe in vaccines.

Apparently there is an anti-mask rally in Steinbach this weekend, at the very moment its hospital is being overwhelmed by COVID patients. Unbelievable.

 

[ps241]

The "brief intervention" is to stop exponential spread and prevent overwhelming hospitals. When we reopen, we are at a lower part of the growth curve. By now this is more than theoretical, is happening all over the world, including in our own backyard. Decisions are being made about who gets the last remaining ICU bed; surgeries have/are being cancelled or delayed by the thousands..

There will be sacrifices required over the next 6 months, but fortunately there appears to be a vaccine on the horizon. That is, if you believe in vaccines.

Apparently there is an anti-mask rally in Steinbach this weekend, at the very moment its hospital is being overwhelmed by COVID patients. Unbelievable.

I think in the coming 6-8 weeks we will hear announcements of more than just the one Vaccine being approved and the scaling of production and distribution In the US looks to be very impressive.

 

[Jets 31]

Exactly. I come to this forum to find people that share my belief that Chevy and Maurice should be fired immediately, and lo and behold... they're here! Hallelujah!

I'm a lone wolf then because i don't think they should be fired......... yet.

 

[ps241]

Not sure if "positive" coronavirus topics is the best way to phrase it

we’ll get there. These middle rounds aren’t going to go our way but we’ll score a knock out punch to end the fight. Of that I am certain.

 

[Jets 31]

We had our first positive at work, the guy and his wife travelled to Banff last week for a bit of a holiday, both tested positive on Wednesday. He was at work unmasked Monday and Tuesday, expecting it to roar through our plant now especially since one of our owners is a conspiracy theorist and believes COVID is a hoax.

This is all just sad if you ask me. You can't hold off on a vacation until we at least have a vaccine? I love to travel and go somewhere every winter, i didn't last year and i'm not this year. I don't like it but sometimes you can't do everything you want. I can't even get into your boss thinking this is a hoax, give your head a shake buddy.

 

[scelaton]

I think in the coming 6-8 weeks we will hear announcements of more than just the one Vaccine being approved and the scaling of production and distribution In the US looks to be very impressive.

Agree. It's really a remarkable partnership between public and private sectors, medical science and ordinary citizens volunteering for the trials.

It's also worth mentioning how many individuals in your industry have been vocal advocates of adherence to public health measures. They know that we all need to get through this intact in order for their businesses to thrive again and are just as frustrated with the minimizers and non-compliers as anyone, even though their economic pain is great.

That is real leadership.

 

[Jet]

I feel for y'all in Manitoba and across Canada.

I theorized that proper countermeasures would be even more critical in Canada than here in the States and that's now looking to come true. Canada's health care system is too efficient and lean to be able to handle am epidemic of this type. Even though the numbers there aren't nearly as atrocious as they are here in Florida, there are dire consequences already.

I feel like neither side really has it right in terms of how to handle covid. In the States, that's directly as a result of zero federal leadership in strategy and management. Now, there is no way for us to really control it. Our only saving grace is the amount of medical resources.

People down here are so friggin attached to their freedom they would rather people die than wear a mask at the store (though I will say where I live, everyone is really good about wearing masks)

Cheap, effective therapy is the real golden egg we need right now.

 

[ps241]

Agree. It's really a remarkable partnership between public and private sectors, medical science and ordinary citizens volunteering for the trials.

It's also worth mentioning how many individuals in your industry have been vocal advocates of adherence to public health measures. They know that we all need to get through this intact in order for their businesses to thrive again and are just as frustrated with the minimizers and non-compliers as anyone, even though their economic pain is great.

That is real leadership.

We are in this together.

 

[Whileee]

Yes they could have. But what happens when we open back up after that “brief” intervention? Does the virus just disappear, never to return?
We’ve learned that virus don’t do that. This one is no different.
So to be intellectually honest, the debate should really be either we shut it all down until a safe vaccine is available, or keep the economy wide open and hope the damage done by the virus is less than the emotional and economic damage ensuing from a full shutdown.

I think the other alternative would be to have brief, sharp shutdowns intermittently, and more relaxed in between. We had no shutdown for several months. If we had shut down in mid October we might be opening again now, and avoided a lot of deaths, hospital strain, etc. Also, the shut down could have been briefer than it will be now.

The reality is that our hospital and school systems can't tolerate an uncontrolled epidemic, so periodic shut downs of various types will be needed. But waiting until the epidemic has a lot of momentum means those lock downs need to be more severe and longer to have the same impact.

 

[Whileee]

Birds of a feather of certain ilk will always think the other side is bonkers.
That’s what makes this place so fun.

But facts matter. When there are two opposing views on a matter of fact, one side is right and the other side is wrong. My point is that social media now allows people who believe in things that are untrue can now find many others to strengthen their beliefs, and then add other untruths. It's okay to say that people who still think the world is flat are wrong. It's also okay to say that people who believe in false theories about virology and epidemiology and immunology are wrong.

 

[Jets 31]

I feel for y'all in Manitoba and across Canada.

I theorized that proper countermeasures would be even more critical in Canada than here in the States and that's now looking to come true. Canada's health care system is too efficient and lean to be able to handle am epidemic of this type. Even though the numbers there aren't nearly as atrocious as they are here in Florida, there are dire consequences already.

I feel like neither side really has it right in terms of how to handle covid. In the States, that's directly as a result of zero federal leadership in strategy and management. Now, there is no way for us to really control it. Our only saving grace is the amount of medical resources.

People down here are so friggin attached to their freedom they would rather people die than wear a mask at the store (though I will say where I live, everyone is really good about wearing masks)

Cheap, effective therapy is the real golden egg we need right now.

I think it'll get better in the States now that you have someone that actually cares about fellow people.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

I'm a lone wolf then because i don't think they should be fired......... yet.

I wouldn't say you're alone but you are part of an endangered species.

 

[Buffdog]

It's funny. I never listen to the news or read the papers... and I have a different take on all this.

I happened to catch a little of the news on TV then listened to a little CJOB over the past couple of days and now I understand why the people in this thread are calling for lockdowns, shaming their kids for wanting to live their lives, etc.

The reality is that the facts don't support it. All cause mortality in canada is within normal limits. Hospitals and ICUs are stressed, but they always are at this timenif year (Covid patients only make up 13% if ICU occupancy in MB).

The craziest thing is I can show you all the graphs and numbers to support my beliefs, but I'll get called a demonic grandma killer, conspiracy theorist, etc... even though I have a logical, rational, well thought out position.

Is anyone willing to engage me in a logical, rational discussion about this? Does anyone have a mind that is just a little open?

 

[Whileee]

It's funny. I never listen to the news or read the papers... and I have a different take on all this.

I happened to catch a little of the news on TV then listened to a little CJOB over the past couple of days and now I understand why the people in this thread are calling for lockdowns, shaming their kids for wanting to live their lives, etc.

The reality is that the facts don't support it. All cause mortality in canada is within normal limits. Hospitals and ICUs are stressed, but they always are at this timenif year (Covid patients only make up 13% if ICU occupancy in MB).

The craziest thing is I can show you all the graphs and numbers to support my beliefs, but I'll get called a demonic grandma killer, conspiracy theorist, etc... even though I have a logical, rational, well thought out position.

Is anyone willing to engage me in a logical, rational discussion about this? Does anyone have a mind that is just a little open?

The epidemic has reached maybe 2-3% of its full potential because of the overall change in behaviours by the population and the public health constraints.

As an example, if we followed the North Dakota trajectory, we would now have 100 people in ICU with Covid, and 1000 people in hospital (pro-rating based on population). And they haven't reached anywhere close to the maximum impact.

I don't mind good data-based arguments, but it's a false argument to claim that the impact so far is the end result. It's like saying we have very little death from infectious diseases as an argument that we don't need vaccines or antibiotics anymore.

 

[cbcwpg]

It's funny. I never listen to the news or read the papers... and I have a different take on all this.

I happened to catch a little of the news on TV then listened to a little CJOB over the past couple of days and now I understand why the people in this thread are calling for lockdowns, shaming their kids for wanting to live their lives, etc.

The reality is that the facts don't support it. All cause mortality in canada is within normal limits. Hospitals and ICUs are stressed, but they always are at this timenif year (Covid patients only make up 13% if ICU occupancy in MB).

The craziest thing is I can show you all the graphs and numbers to support my beliefs, but I'll get called a demonic grandma killer, conspiracy theorist, etc... even though I have a logical, rational, well thought out position.

Is anyone willing to engage me in a logical, rational discussion about this? Does anyone have a mind that is just a little open?

Need to have accurate numbers before having a discussion.

There are now 93 ICU beds operating, with four added at HSC in the last 2 days. Shared Health reported that 85 of these beds were occupied this morning, 34 of those by COVID-19 patients. We heard reports midday that all 93 ICU beds were full, with no open beds.

Covid patients account for ~37% of the ICU beds, not 13%. Reguardless... if we keep going the way we are, when you call 911 because you or someone else needs emergency care due to a heart attack or being in a car accident... don't be surprised when you are told there is a waiting list. Nothing "funny" about it.

And as far as lockdowns... gov'ts don't implement lockdowns. It's the behaviour of the public that implement lockdowns.

 

[Conflicted Habs fan]

It's funny. I never listen to the news or read the papers... and I have a different take on all this.

I happened to catch a little of the news on TV then listened to a little CJOB over the past couple of days and now I understand why the people in this thread are calling for lockdowns, shaming their kids for wanting to live their lives, etc.

The reality is that the facts don't support it. All cause mortality in canada is within normal limits. Hospitals and ICUs are stressed, but they always are at this timenif year (Covid patients only make up 13% if ICU occupancy in MB).

The craziest thing is I can show you all the graphs and numbers to support my beliefs, but I'll get called a demonic grandma killer, conspiracy theorist, etc... even though I have a logical, rational, well thought out position.

Is anyone willing to engage me in a logical, rational discussion about this? Does anyone have a mind that is just a little open?

Believe me, if you had listened to non stop sensationalized news your head too would be regurgitating hyperbolic propaganda. The fact that you didn't makes you probably one of the few who possess any common sense around here. My congratulations.
I've seen the graphs and sources from actual doctors in the field as you already alluded. They are censored as will this post. Logical discussion is not possible with the angry CBC indoctrinated mob who do not tolerate mispeak crimes to their corporate globalist narrative

 

[Buffdog]

Need to have accurate numbers before having a discussion.

There are now 93 ICU beds operating, with four added at HSC in the last 2 days. Shared Health reported that 85 of these beds were occupied this morning, 34 of those by COVID-19 patients. We heard reports midday that all 93 ICU beds were full, with no open beds.

Covid patients account for ~37% of the ICU beds, not 13%. Reguardless... if we keep going the way we are, when you call 911 because you or someone else needs emergency care due to a heart attack or being in a car accident... don't be surprised when you are told there is a waiting list. Nothing "funny" about it.

And as far as lockdowns... gov'ts don't implement lockdowns. It's the behaviour of the public that implement lockdowns.

Manitoba doesn't delineate between hospitalizations and ICU WITH covid and DUE TO covid. Therefore it is difficult to know how many of those ywojld be in there anyway, or how many were in there and caught it in there. Furthermore, we know that there is a percentage of people who test positive for covid with the RT PCR test whose cycle threshold is so high that the viral load is low and they're no longer infectious. In Manitoba over the past 2 months those asymptomatic positives account for 20-28% of positive tests.

It isn't uncommon for ICU to be at capacity at this time of year, and again in January when flu seasons spike.

Also, re: lockdowns... the WHO did a review of the literature on the effectiveness of NPIs for pandemics in 2019. I'm curious if you have read it. If not, give it a quick Google and let me know what you think.

 

[Buffdog]

The epidemic has reached maybe 2-3% of its full potential because of the overall change in behaviours by the population and the public health constraints.

As an example, if we followed the North Dakota trajectory, we would now have 100 people in ICU with Covid, and 1000 people in hospital (pro-rating based on population). And they haven't reached anywhere close to the maximum impact.

I don't mind good data-based arguments, but it's a false argument to claim that the impact so far is the end result. It's like saying we have very little death from infectious diseases as an argument that we don't need vaccines or antibiotics anymore.

Interesting aside, but 88,000+ people die in America each year from antibiotic resistant infections. Those bugs evolved due to overprescription of antibiotics, commonly for viral infections. The point is that just because you have a tool, using it improperly or heavy handedly can have negative outcomes as well. Same goes for lockdowns.

Part of what inwas listening to on CJOB was them shitting on ND for their hands off approach. What I found ironic is that restrictions are getting tighter and tighter up here, yet we're getting our asses kicked as well.

We have enough data now with this that we know how and when this virus spreads. We know who is at highest risk and who is not. We also have seen various jurisdictions around the world take varying levels of restrictions, all with fairly similar outcomes long term.

What if lockdowns and human behaviour don't play as big of a role in controlling this as we think? What if, despite all the damage to the economy and the mental and physical health of the young and healthy, we aren't actually preventing any significant number of deaths? What if these restrictions are actually causing more years of life lost than they're preventing? I could make the argument for all of those.

 

[Ducky10]

Believe me, if you had listened to non stop sensationalized news your head too would be regurgitating hyperbolic propaganda. The fact that you didn't makes you probably one of the few who possess any common sense around here. My congratulations.
I've seen the graphs and sources from actual doctors in the field as you already alluded. They are censored as will this post. Logical discussion is not possible with the angry CBC indoctrinated mob who do not tolerate mispeak crimes to their corporate globalist narrative

Ah, the old populist trope. Unless you accept the “facts” by the oppressed deplorables and their “real truth” seeking media, you are a corporate, global elite idiot.

The irony in your post is what is lost on most so called “populists”especially ones who are also prone to demagogue rhetoric. Believe me, you flatter yourself by calling your sense “common”.

Lay out your graphs and sources and have a rational debate, rather than taking the intellectual high ground by simply claiming you know better. You’re as brainwashed as the “fake news” crowd. You just don’t realize you’ve been gaslighted.

 

[buggs]

Ah, the old populist trope. Unless you accept the “facts” by the oppressed deplorables and their “real truth” seeking media, you are a corporate, global elite idiot.

The irony in your post is what is lost on most so called “populists”especially ones who are also prone to demagogue rhetoric. Believe me, you flatter yourself by calling your sense “common”.

Lay out your graphs and sources and have a rational debate, rather than taking the intellectual high ground by simply claiming you know better. You’re as brainwashed as the “fake news” crowd. You just don’t realize you’ve been gaslighted.

I'm sure this is what you are referring to.

 

[Ducky10]

I'm sure this is what you are referring to.

Left, right, doesn’t matter, populism is populism. The problem is it doesn’t co-exist with pluralism but some people can’t wrap their head around that. Modern day populism and irony are pretty much synonyms.
Anyway, OT, sorry.

 

[10Ducky10]

Part of what inwas listening to on CJOB was them shitting on ND for their hands off approach. What I found ironic is that restrictions are getting tighter and tighter up here, yet we're getting our asses kicked as well.

We have enough data now with this that we know how and when this virus spreads. We know who is at highest risk and who is not. We also have seen various jurisdictions around the world take varying levels of restrictions, all with fairly similar outcomes long term.

What if lockdowns and human behaviour don't play as big of a role in controlling this as we think? What if, despite all the damage to the economy and the mental and physical health of the young and healthy, we aren't actually preventing any significant number of deaths? What if these restrictions are actually causing more years of life lost than they're preventing? I could make the argument for all of those.

We are nowhere near the severity that ND is.
2270 cases so far today and nowhere near 800,000 people in the state!
Over 700 deaths!
The governor has asked the nurses that have tested psoitive and are asymptomatic to go back to work!
Ya, we are nowhere near ND in any way, shape or form wrt to the virus.

 

[Jack722]

This was posted

From that link it looks like there were actually 11 influenza cases reported in Canada between August 23 and September 19th 2020.

That chart is also incredibly misleading; the number is wrong and the "2020-2021" year is wrong; again, it's only looking at the weeks between Aug 23 and Sept 19. It seems like it's trying to compare total yearly flu cases with a four-week period, which instantly sets off my BS meter.

I also searched for that same chart/gif and the only places I can see it posted on the net are along with a bunch of things that tell me I should probably take this information with a grain of salt.