OT: Covid-19 (Part 40) If you are the healer...

[Lshap]

The ultimate "Fed up and f*** off" song.

Click to read more...

 

[Lshap]

What would you guys think about the government changing reporting guidelines to separate all COVID new cases/deaths/hospitalizations by vaccination status?

ie:
1200 new cases total -> 100 vaccinated and 1100 not vaccinated.
30 deaths -> 0 vaccinated and 30 not vaccinated.
20 new hospitalizations -> 0 vaccinated and 20 not vaccinated.

I think we should start doing this once we hit the 20% threshold. Will be important to illustrate the difference to the antivax brigade. And in general we should be tracking this data anyway to study efficacy.

I love this idea. The anti-vax crowd won't care. Forget them. This message is for the majority who are undecided or simply procrastinating. It's straightforward marketing: "Hey moron – notice 95% of the sick are among non-vaccinated??"

Beyond the external messaging to the public, it's also crucial internal data to measure the effectiveness of the vaccine. Methinks they're already recording this stat but haven't added it to the daily press releases.

 

[Lshap]

FYI - although Quebec's numbers are troublesome, if not yet critical, Montreal is actually doing well compared to les banlieues. Numbers in the greater Montreal area are slightly lower, likely the result of more vaccines.

 

[morhilane]

Are you talking about a mask or a surgical mask? I'm unsure about the mask needing to be a surgical mask. I worked at two fairly large companies in 2020 and my standard cloth facemask was acceptable in December so...I think @Kriss E is right on this one.

Surgical mask (not the N95, normal surgical mask). I thought cloth was fine too, but I was asked directly by HR to take a company provided surgical mask the day after CNESST visited and they send the new guideline when I showed up with my cloth mask. I was told that was because HR can't guarantee everyone's cloth mask is certified and CNESST request masks to be certified.

 

[Milhouse40]

FYI - although Quebec's numbers are troublesome, if not yet critical, Montreal is actually doing well compared to les banlieues. Numbers in the greater Montreal area are slightly lower, likely the result of more vaccines.

We'll see and we will take every bit of good new but

 

[SOLR]

@Milhouse40

To answer your last post:

Targeting the first line of transmission is a proven vaccine deployment tactic that limits transmission, hospitalization and protects the vulnerable by getting to "effective herd immunity" faster.

I.e if you think about it in terms of "time of exposure by unvaccinated individual" and you can get to a point where 90% of the time of exposure is vaccinated, the pandemic collapses.

The essential infrastructure you can't replace in-person for:
Healthcare
Factories
Groceries
Essential Transportation
Teachers
Students

I think if we do a large part of that group + stay at home, we'll have achieved "effective herd immunity" much faster (assuming the rest of the population is under lockdown measures) and the number of cases will collapse much faster than waiting for 70% of the population to be vaccinated. This will shave months of risk for at-risk individuals.

Moreover, adding 400-500k people ahead of the "at-risk group" is just a 1-week difference in Ontario for the at-risk individuals because of how the vaccine production is scaling.

 

[ECWHSWI]

I love this idea. The anti-vax crowd won't care. Forget them. This message is for the majority who are undecided or simply procrastinating. It's straightforward marketing: "Hey moron – notice 95% of the sick are among non-vaccinated??"

Beyond the external messaging to the public, it's also crucial internal data to measure the effectiveness of the vaccine. Methinks they're already recording this stat but haven't added it to the daily press releases.

love it too, and love yours about calling other people idiots.

From now on, every single time someone is disagreeing with you you stigmatise and insult them. I and the others do the exact same. It's good for COVID, it's good for everything else so we don't limit ourselves to the pandemic, we're better than that.

be ready for a calm and peaceful board

 

[mitchmagic]

Someone in the previous thread asked me about my 95 year old grandma and me not being eligible for a vaccine and not believing that.

It's true. People who cared for family could only get a vaccine if they themselves were over 70 years old. I'm not employed as an essential worker. Just doing this to help my family.

As a Type 1 Diabetic I'm at greater risk for complications, like other auto-immune diseases, but auto-immune disorders have been left off the priority list.

I'm done with this province.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Someone in the previous thread asked me about my 95 year old grandma and me not being eligible for a vaccine and not believing that.

It's true. People who cared for family could only get a vaccine if they themselves were over 70 years old. I'm not employed as an essential worker. Just doing this to help my family.

As a Type 1 Diabetic I'm at greater risk for complications, like other auto-immune diseases, but auto-immune disorders have been left off the priority list.

I'm done with this province.

I'm in same boat minus the diabetes.

What I will say is its a little premature to panic. The priority is merely who goes first, not who gets it. Very soon we will all get our turn. Vaccines are rolling in fast enough that within next 2 months you will probably get your first dose, maybe even sooner.

So as frustrating as this all is for some, you are still going to get the vaccine soon.

 

[Adam Michaels]

So apparently Quebec City and Chaudière-Apalaches will see a big increase in cases in tomorrow's daily release.

 

[dinodebino]

So apparently Quebec City and Chaudière-Apalaches will see a big increase in cases in tomorrow's daily release.

We did today. But our CISS SUCKS at testing : people have been waiting up to FIVE days to get results. The CISS is just incompetent here. Have been for many years, if not decades (sorry for those who work there).

So today's results could be last week's tests...

 

[A Loyal Dog]

So apparently Quebec City and Chaudière-Apalaches will see a big increase in cases in tomorrow's daily release.

I heard Montreal too. But Montreal was expected.

 

[A Loyal Dog]

Someone in the previous thread asked me about my 95 year old grandma and me not being eligible for a vaccine and not believing that.

It's true. People who cared for family could only get a vaccine if they themselves were over 70 years old. I'm not employed as an essential worker. Just doing this to help my family.

As a Type 1 Diabetic I'm at greater risk for complications, like other auto-immune diseases, but auto-immune disorders have been left off the priority list.

I'm done with this province.

By the way, I’m not sure, but CBC seems to be reporting that we can start getting vaccinated starting Monday!

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/mont...-illness-essential-workers-teachers-1.5978000

 

[hersky77]

I heard Montreal too. But Montreal was expected.

where did you read/hear that about Montréal?

 

[Milhouse40]

@Milhouse40

To answer your last post:

Targeting the first line of transmission is a proven vaccine development tactic that limits transmission, hospitalization and protects the vulnerable by getting to "effective herd immunity" faster.

I.e if you think about it in terms of "time of exposure by unvaccinated individual" and you can get to a point where 90% of the time of exposure is vaccinated, the pandemic collapses.

The essential infrastructure you can't replace in-person for:
Healthcare
Factories
Groceries
Essential Transportation
Teachers
Students

I think if we do a large part of that group + stay at home, we'll have achieved "effective herd immunity" much faster and the number of cases will collapse much faster than waiting for 70% of the population to be vaccinated. This will shave months of risk for at-risk individuals.

Moreover, adding 400-500k people ahead of the "at-risk group" is just a 1-week difference in Ontario for the at-risk individuals because of how the vaccine production is scaling.

I disagree since it's not proven yet that all vaccine stop the transmission. Some studies are starting to show that it's seems to be the case for Pfizer, but still too early to call.

And if it were true, from the beginning they should have targeted those high transmission zone but they didn't. They protected the most vulnerable. Now they just switched the whole thing?

I get some of them getting vaccinated......but a healthy foreign workers who works in the field outside all day long will go ahead of people at high risk with obesity or diabetes? That's just dumb. That's not what science tell us
Brève | Covid-19 : un patient sur cinq atteint de diabète décède dans le mois suivant son arrivée à l'hôpital ! (futura-sciences.com)

But where I really have a huge problem.....it's not 1 week, Arruda said we will be with the rest of normal healthy people. I've looked at many countries to see how their vaccine rollout is set-up and all of them vaccinated or will vaccinate the people at risk first. Can't find one that will do what Arruda said they will do.

All I'm seeing is a government trying to be right about opening as fast as they did against experts advices and just decided to stay open also against doctor's advices. We should be in lockdown, we should be vaccinated the less healthy of us, get the transmission down, not those who could get it more easily because of the shitshow the government put on them by being stubborn of staying open.....and then reopen while vaccinating the most essential workers first(who should be for most part in lockdown for a couple of weeks)

Vaccine took right now, will be in effect in 2 weeks.....might be too late by now anyway. The variants is too fast.

 

[SOLR]

Someone in the previous thread asked me about my 95 year old grandma and me not being eligible for a vaccine and not believing that.

It's true. People who cared for family could only get a vaccine if they themselves were over 70 years old. I'm not employed as an essential worker. Just doing this to help my family.

As a Type 1 Diabetic I'm at greater risk for complications, like other auto-immune diseases, but auto-immune disorders have been left off the priority list.

I'm done with this province.

It's coming, hang tight.

 

[SOLR]

I disagree since it's not proven yet that all vaccine stop the transmission. Some studies are starting to show that it's seems to be the case for Pfizer, but still too early to call.

And if it were true, from the beginning they should have targeted those high transmission zone but they didn't. They protected the most vulnerable. Now they just switched the whole thing?

I get some of them getting vaccinated......but a healthy foreign workers who works in the field outside all day long will go ahead of people at high risk with obesity or diabetes? That's just dumb. That's not what science tell us
Brève | Covid-19 : un patient sur cinq atteint de diabète décède dans le mois suivant son arrivée à l'hôpital ! (futura-sciences.com)

But where I really have a huge problem.....it's not 1 week, Arruda said we will be with the rest of normal healthy people. I've looked at many countries to see how their vaccine rollout is set-up and all of them vaccinated or will vaccinate the people at risk first. Can't find one that will do what Arruda said they will do.

All I'm seeing is a government trying to be right about opening as fast as they did against experts advices and just decided to stay open also against doctor's advices. We should be in lockdown, we should be vaccinated the less healthy of us, get the transmission down, not those who could get it more easily because of the shitshow the government put on them by being stubborn of staying open.....and then reopen while vaccinating the most essential workers first(who should be for most part in lockdown for a couple of weeks)

Vaccine took right now, will be in effect in 2 weeks.....might be too late by now anyway. The variants is too fast.

What do you disagree on? Hospitals are seeing a large number of factory workers and their partners in the ICU, that's the crowd. This is a new disease, B1.1.7, not original Covid.

"Since the start" was the strategy against Covid 1. We have to shift, it's a new pandemic. The risk moved.

We've already vaccinated most people at risk (70+), you are arguing over 1 week in terms of vaccine deliveries.

 

[Milhouse40]

What do you disagree on? Hospitals are seeing a large number of factory workers and their partners in the ICU, that's the crowd. This is a new disease, B1.1.7, not original Covid.

"Since the start" was the strategy against Covid 1. We have to shift, it's a new pandemic. The risk moved.

We've already vaccinated most people at risk (70+), you are arguing over 1 week in terms of vaccine deliveries.

Like I said, it's not 1 week at all. If you are 40 with a condition, you will pass after the 55, after 50, after the 45......we're talking about 5 weeks at best.

Hospitals are seeing people under 60 now in the hospital....that's why we are seeing factory workers there.
But this virus also and always attacked those with some condition more like that 16yo teen that died today.

So it might seems a good idea to vaccinate those people with condition under 60 years old first....I mean they are the most vulnerable not vaccinated right now.

 

[SOLR]

Like I said, it's not 1 week at all. If you are 40 with a condition, you will pass after the 55, after 50, after the 45......we're talking about 5 weeks at best.

Hospitals are seeing people under 60 now in the hospital....that's why we are seeing factory workers there.
But this virus also and always attacked those with some condition more like that 16yo teen that died today.

So it might seems a good idea to vaccinate those people with condition under 60 years old first....I mean they are the most vulnerable not vaccinated right now.

That's not what they are talking about in Ontario at all, when they get to 60, they will open 16 years old to 60 at risk (Chimio, Type 1, MS).

I think with all the stories about the vaccination spots not being used, they will start opening more groups faster.

They are changing every day, we'll see what they decide.

 

[Milhouse40]

That's not what they are talking about in Ontario at all, when they get to 60, they will open 16 years old to 60 at risk (Chimio, Type 1, MS).

I think with all the stories about the vaccination spots not being used, they will start opening more groups faster.

They are changing every day, we'll see what they decide.

Well in Quebec those same people will go at the same time as everybody else depending on their age......but since there's a backlash, they might change their mind.

For a good example, a person like Domi whould have been vaccinated in very last part after everyone older than him. Makes no sense.

 

[llamateizer]

Someone in the previous thread asked me about my 95 year old grandma and me not being eligible for a vaccine and not believing that.

It's true. People who cared for family could only get a vaccine if they themselves were over 70 years old. I'm not employed as an essential worker. Just doing this to help my family.

As a Type 1 Diabetic I'm at greater risk for complications, like other auto-immune diseases, but auto-immune disorders have been left off the priority list.

I'm done with this province.

Immunocompromised is not the same as auto immune?
Afaik immunocompromised are included in the list

 

[llamateizer]

Someone in the previous thread asked me about my 95 year old grandma and me not being eligible for a vaccine and not believing that.

It's true. People who cared for family could only get a vaccine if they themselves were over 70 years old. I'm not employed as an essential worker. Just doing this to help my family.

As a Type 1 Diabetic I'm at greater risk for complications, like other auto-immune diseases, but auto-immune disorders have been left off the priority list.

I'm done with this province.

Nouveaux groupes prioritaires : êtes-vous admissible?
check with your doctor if you can have it if you're in montreal.
they seems to talk About heavy cases. it's unclear

Voici la liste des maladies chroniques et des problèmes de santé du groupe prioritaire 8 de vaccination :
Hypertension
Maladies respiratoires :
- maladies pulmonaires chroniques
- maladies de la circulation pulmonaire
Maladies cardiovasculaires :
- infarctus du myocarde
- arythmie cardiaque
- insuffisance cardiaque congestive
- valvulopathie
- maladies cérébrovasculaires
- troubles vasculaires périphériques
Diabète (avec ou sans complication)
Cancer
Tumeur sans métastase
Cancer métastatique
Trouble neurologique
Démence
Troubles neurologiques
Maladie du rein
Maladie hépatique
Problème du système immunitaire
Arthrite rhumatoïde/collagénose avec manifestation vasculaire
VIH/SIDA
Obésité
Psychose
Anémie (par carence et hémorragique)

 

[Milhouse40]

Nouveaux groupes prioritaires : êtes-vous admissible?
check with your doctor if you can have it if you're in montreal.
they seems to talk About heavy cases. it's unclear

Voici la liste des maladies chroniques et des problèmes de santé du groupe prioritaire 8 de vaccination :
Hypertension
Maladies respiratoires :
- maladies pulmonaires chroniques
- maladies de la circulation pulmonaire
Maladies cardiovasculaires :
- infarctus du myocarde
- arythmie cardiaque
- insuffisance cardiaque congestive
- valvulopathie
- maladies cérébrovasculaires
- troubles vasculaires périphériques
Diabète (avec ou sans complication)
Cancer
Tumeur sans métastase
Cancer métastatique
Trouble neurologique
Démence
Troubles neurologiques
Maladie du rein
Maladie hépatique
Problème du système immunitaire
Arthrite rhumatoïde/collagénose avec manifestation vasculaire
VIH/SIDA
Obésité
Psychose
Anémie (par carence et hémorragique)

That's the December list.....

 

[Lshap]

love it too, and love yours about calling other people idiots.

From now on, every single time someone is disagreeing with you you stigmatise and insult them. I and the others do the exact same. It's good for COVID, it's good for everything else so we don't limit ourselves to the pandemic, we're better than that.

be ready for a calm and peaceful board

??

Who disagreed with me who I called an idiot?

 

[LeHab]

What would you guys think about the government changing reporting guidelines to separate all COVID new cases/deaths/hospitalizations by vaccination status?

ie:
1200 new cases total -> 100 vaccinated and 1100 not vaccinated.
30 deaths -> 0 vaccinated and 30 not vaccinated.
20 new hospitalizations -> 0 vaccinated and 20 not vaccinated.

I think we should start doing this once we hit the 20% threshold. Will be important to illustrate the difference to the antivax brigade. And in general we should be tracking this data anyway to study efficacy.

I love this idea. The anti-vax crowd won't care. Forget them. This message is for the majority who are undecided or simply procrastinating. It's straightforward marketing: "Hey moron – notice 95% of the sick are among non-vaccinated??"

Beyond the external messaging to the public, it's also crucial internal data to measure the effectiveness of the vaccine. Methinks they're already recording this stat but haven't added it to the daily press releases.

Like the general idea too however need to be careful how the data is presented. Once someone got a shot, immunity is built progressively overtime. Takes around 2 to 3 weeks for immunity to reach expected level of a single dose.