OT: Covid-19 (Part 29) Sick Again...?

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durojean

Registered User
May 29, 2007
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Depend what you mean by loosen up.

If you barely have cases...I’m pretty sure everyone is doing theirs thing like they were before...like some was doing here some weeks ago. Wearing a mask and washing your hand is not supposed to be a problem.

It is not the common flu. A couple of doctor went public with that kind of statement...but the vast vast majority, especially the one holding credibility aren’t comparing covid to the flu. Maybe we wake up in 20 years with 10-20-30% of the person infected with big respiratory problem (plausible)...imagine the cost of that. Maybe everything will be fine...it’s too soon right now.

Right now, here, the region affected are smaller area that did not take it very seriously (which I understand because they did not got hit in the 1st wave) . If Covid spread everywhere...the health system won’t be able to take care of everything..it’s not only about death...but ICU and hospitalization...that is a pretty basic equation.

About the economy...we were one of the country in best shape financially (debt/PIB). We can take that hit. Canada had much much more debt during the war.

the health system won’t be able to take care of everything

I feel like that's the biggest issue. I thought we were confined to give breathing room to the health system so that they would be ready for wave 2.
Problem, even with a slow summer, we could not correct the system enough so that it would be ready so we need to protect it no matter what. I feel like maybe we did not invest in the right places. All the graph shows that everyone will end up getting covid. We are merely trying to protect a bad system so that it does not become catastrophic. A system that in time not of covid is 140% overloaded.
 

Kriss E

Registered User
May 3, 2007
55,329
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Jeddah
the health system won’t be able to take care of everything

I feel like that's the biggest issue. I thought we were confined to give breathing room to the health system so that they would be ready for wave 2.
Problem, even with a slow summer, we could not correct the system enough so that it would be ready so we need to protect it no matter what. I feel like maybe we did not invest in the right places. All the graph shows that everyone will end up getting covid. We are merely trying to protect a bad system so that it does not become catastrophic. A system that in time not of covid is 140% overloaded.
There isn't a country in the world that is equipped to have just half of its population fall ill and need help.
 

MSLs absurd thighs

Formerly Tough Au Lit
Feb 4, 2013
9,424
4,280
The fact that many in our society lack the selflessness to just say "Well, for a couple of months, I'm going to limit my social contacts, try not to see the ones I love too much, and follow the rules put in place by public health" is PRETTY concerning... You can't be that selfish and raise kids.
 

CrAzYNiNe

who could have predicted?
Jun 5, 2003
11,748
2,889
Montreal
The fact that many in our society lack the selflessness to just say "Well, for a couple of months, I'm going to limit my social contacts, try not to see the ones I love too much, and follow the rules put in place by public health" is PRETTY concerning... You can't be that selfish and raise kids.

Plenty do and it makes selfish kids.
 

Seb

All we are is Dustin Byfuglien
Jul 15, 2006
17,284
12,322
The fact that many in our society lack the selflessness to just say "Well, for a couple of months, I'm going to limit my social contacts, try not to see the ones I love too much, and follow the rules put in place by public health" is PRETTY concerning... You can't be that selfish and raise kids.

It really is flabbergasting to witness the large amount of people not giving a shit about collectivity.
 

MSLs absurd thighs

Formerly Tough Au Lit
Feb 4, 2013
9,424
4,280
Plenty do and it makes selfish kids.

It's my birthday this weekend, and I'm a guy who is really, really close to his whole family. Every year my girlfriend and I come over to my parents' house, my sisters and my aunt come over, and we're having a "raclette" dinner. This is tradition. This year, we figured we would do it only between my parents and my girlfriend. But you know what? If I keep visiting my parents, my sister will say it's ok to visit them because someone else is doing it. And if she does, my other sister will think the same thing, And so on and so forth.

I called my parents and told them I wasn't going to come over for my birthday. We're in the two worst regions right now (Capitale-Nationale and Chaudière-Appalaches) and it's not safe to keep seeing each other as long as cases will drastically go up in those areas.

It's a huge sacrifice for me. Even my girlfriend thinks I'm pushing this a little too much. But for f*** sake it's a serious disease that can seriously affect the elderly. My parents are in good shape for their age (around 70), but I don't want them to catch it.

To me, it's only natural to do those kinds of sacrifice. Everybody thinking "Well it's for the others..." or "Well we're ok since we're careful...". Nope. Stop. Everybody controls his N=1. And if we want to see the ones we love again before X-mas, we must act now.
 

Harry22

Registered User
Mar 28, 2005
20,534
2,304
Montreal
The fact that many in our society lack the selflessness to just say "Well, for a couple of months, I'm going to limit my social contacts, try not to see the ones I love too much, and follow the rules put in place by public health" is PRETTY concerning... You can't be that selfish and raise kids.

Yup and then you see comments like ''well if a loved one has underlying conditions and a suppressed immunity, they should stay home'' it just proves your selfishness even more.

No one is asking you to stop working or to close work places. What the government is asking to limit social interactions and more specifically INDOOR social gatherings as it is shown that those events are the biggest spreaders of the disease. If you can't spend a couple of months without going to a friends house or grab a drink with a friend, then yea you are selfish.

You don't think my mental health has taken a toll because of this pandemic? Yes it has and I will probably feel the effects of it for years to come but I still shut up and stay home because we live IN A SOCIETY and the common good is better than my individual state at this time.
 

durojean

Registered User
May 29, 2007
2,309
1,275
There isn't a country in the world that is equipped to have just half of its population fall ill and need help.

But there is... sweden did just that and they did not have to wait for a second wave to temporize. There are a lot of countries in the world who did really well from the first go.
I'm not saying let go of the mask and let go of all the procedures we put in place to prevent the virus to go too badly. I'm saying we should be more ready for the second wave and from what we hear, be it either from Legault, Arudda or everywhere else. We just need the virus to not be there to be ok. I sense a lot of panic from the gestion we got and a lot of improvisation. 2 things we should never sense from our leaders.
 

LyricalLyricist

Registered User
Aug 21, 2007
37,909
5,814
Montreal
Whats funny is that large cities like montreal still have more to do in a pandemic than tiny cities have in the best of times.

We are spoiled. We live a great life in these developed cities and what it is now is very far from what many people deal with on a daily basis.

I feel for those who have more pertinent issues such as a job loss as the economy is taking a hit but if this is just about waiting in line at Walmart lets chill. If it's about not being in groups of 100 people...c'mon. If you can't have fun with up to 10 people in a group then it says something about you, not everyone else.
 

GoodKiwi

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Feb 23, 2006
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Kriss E

Registered User
May 3, 2007
55,329
20,272
Jeddah
The fact that many in our society lack the selflessness to just say "Well, for a couple of months, I'm going to limit my social contacts, try not to see the ones I love too much, and follow the rules put in place by public health" is PRETTY concerning... You can't be that selfish and raise kids.
I think most people have though. There was a lockdown already where people confined for 6 weeks, and then a slow reopening.
 

cajmonkey

Registered User
Mar 29, 2014
3,541
1,162
Since covid, I've gone to one restaurant twice, as it gave out free meals during covid lockdown, and another one time. Always on a terrace.

That's it. No other form of entertainment apart from home entertainment. I cook a lot.
 

waffledave

waffledave, from hf
Aug 22, 2004
33,417
15,736
Montreal
People are not stupid contrary to what you believe. They see that what officials are telling them is not what is happening in real life. It is not nearly as bad as you believe, but that's alright, you do what you need to do to feel safe and the rest will do what they need to do. Maybe the pendulum will swing to far in the other direction, but I will not live out my days in the basement. I have a relative that has terminal cancer, they gave her five years, she has no immune system and is very young, 21 I believe. Well her fiance tried to celebrate her first year of remission, she was very depressed and said, I refuse to live what time I have left hiding in a house. Right or wrong she chose to live her life, so far so good. I get that.

I'm sorry, but, the majority of people are stupid. Especially if they make decisions about the health and safety for themselves AND OTHERS based on what they see in their small bubble.

You don't know more than doctors. You don't know more than scientists. Not unless you are one, and even then, you need to be studying this specifically.

You talk about doing what you need to do to feel safe. You know what I think? It's the people who are in denial about this whole thing that are deluding themselves because they need this to feel safe.

Those who downplay the virus are so scared internally that it's easier to live in denial than it is to face reality and accept that a small sacrifice is needed to protect society as a whole.

I understand if this is too much for you. I do. I feel bad for a lot of people because deep down they are not equipped to handle a pandemic and that isn't their fault.

But selfishness, I will not excuse.
 

waffledave

waffledave, from hf
Aug 22, 2004
33,417
15,736
Montreal
I've looked things up and followed comprehensive discussions involving intelligent people.

It's not as bad as initially thought.

If 'intelligent people' are telling you this... I hate to break it to you but... They aren't as intelligent as you might think.
 

waffledave

waffledave, from hf
Aug 22, 2004
33,417
15,736
Montreal
Or... if people getting it are the parents, friends, siblings, coworkers en up having a rough time but end up not dying and getting out of the covid just fine like most of the stats suggest. People will feel validated and will wonder about all the restrictions if they did not help in the end.

CHSLD got hit right and left and a lot of people died from covid and other sources anyway. If it is proven that 50 under are pretty much safe. What will the reaction be ?

Fact is, right now is soon to really know and we better be more careful than not. But there is still the chance that another kind of approach could be way better. Protect those who are in real danger, put more ressources to those and let the safe part of the population get it could do wonders.

That's the point, in the end. We don't know enough to make decisions aside from the most conservative options.

What we do know is this thing is one of the leading causes of death since it started. Up there with cancer, heart disease, accidents, etc...

We also know it affects older people more often, but everyone is vulnerable.

We know it has long-term effects for some people even if they are young, healthy, and didn't get hit hard.

We don't know how common the long-term effects are, yet, because it hasn't been long enough to know for sure.

At the end of the day I will have very little sympathy for those people who are reckless, in denial, or downplay the virus with f***ing idiotic statements like "I REFUSE TO LIVE IN FEAR!" if they get COVID and then end up having to live with heart or lung damage for the rest of their lives.

Risk might be low, sure. I mean lots of people smoke all their lives and don't die of lung cancer. But most people don't smoke because it's proven to be bad for you even if the risk is still ultimately low. Wasn't always something we understood, though.
 

waffledave

waffledave, from hf
Aug 22, 2004
33,417
15,736
Montreal
But there is... sweden did just that and they did not have to wait for a second wave to temporize. There are a lot of countries in the world who did really well from the first go.
I'm not saying let go of the mask and let go of all the procedures we put in place to prevent the virus to go too badly. I'm saying we should be more ready for the second wave and from what we hear, be it either from Legault, Arudda or everywhere else. We just need the virus to not be there to be ok. I sense a lot of panic from the gestion we got and a lot of improvisation. 2 things we should never sense from our leaders.

Sweden, initially praised for lack of lockdown, now considering restrictions as coronavirus cases rise
 

waffledave

waffledave, from hf
Aug 22, 2004
33,417
15,736
Montreal
The fact that many in our society lack the selflessness to just say "Well, for a couple of months, I'm going to limit my social contacts, try not to see the ones I love too much, and follow the rules put in place by public health" is PRETTY concerning... You can't be that selfish and raise kids.

The selfishness is deep-seeded fear. This is how they cope.
 

Ozmodiar

Registered User
Oct 18, 2017
5,776
6,730
We know it has long-term effects for some people even if they are young, healthy, and didn't get hit hard.

We don't know how common the long-term effects are, yet, because it hasn't been long enough to know for sure.

interesting that this doesn't come up more often. I guess most just focus on the death rate because it's a hard number.
 

waffledave

waffledave, from hf
Aug 22, 2004
33,417
15,736
Montreal
interesting that this doesn't come up more often. I guess most just focus on the death rate because it's a hard number.

There are more and more people coming forward to talk about their experiences as "covid long-haulers." Long term organ damage, lungs, heart, blood clots, etc... Look at TSN's John Lu, he got a pulmonary embolism due to COVID and fell down a bunch of stares because he passed out. Could have potentially led to a major fatal stroke had he not fallen and needed medical attention.
 
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CHwest

Talent sets the floor, character sets the ceiling.
May 24, 2011
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I'm sorry, but, the majority of people are stupid. Especially if they make decisions about the health and safety for themselves AND OTHERS based on what they see in their small bubble.

You don't know more than doctors. You don't know more than scientists. Not unless you are one, and even then, you need to be studying this specifically.

You talk about doing what you need to do to feel safe. You know what I think? It's the people who are in denial about this whole thing that are deluding themselves because they need this to feel safe.

Those who downplay the virus are so scared internally that it's easier to live in denial than it is to face reality and accept that a small sacrifice is needed to protect society as a whole.

I understand if this is too much for you. I do. I feel bad for a lot of people because deep down they are not equipped to handle a pandemic and that isn't their fault.

But selfishness, I will not excuse.
Ah yes, the retort of the left, insult and speak down. There is no denial, I understand, what you won't admit is that it is not what it was reported early on. Remember Tam telling us masks where ineffective? Are you still hanging on to that? Our knowledge of this is constantly shifting. You be safe. :)
 
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Ozmodiar

Registered User
Oct 18, 2017
5,776
6,730
There are more and more people coming forward to talk about their experiences as "covid long-haulers." Long term organ damage, lungs, heart, blood clots, etc... Look at TSN's John Lu, he got a pulmonary embolism due to COVID and fell down a bunch of stares because he passed out. Could have potentially led to a major fatal stroke had he not fallen and needed medical attention.
I suppose it’s because it’s mostly based on anecdotal evidence.
The bulk of research is for prevention, treatment and cure/vaccine.
 
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Harry22

Registered User
Mar 28, 2005
20,534
2,304
Montreal
Ah yes, the retort of the left, insult and speak down. There is no denial, I understand, what you won't admit is that it is not what it was reported early on. Remember Tam telling us masks where ineffective? Are you still hanging on to that? Our knowledge of this is constantly shifting. You be safe. :)

Holy f***, is this your only talking point?

WE DID NOT KNOW HOW THE VIRUS PRIMARILY TRANSMITS AND WE WANTED TO SAVE THE PPE FOR HEALTH CARE PROVIDERS.

This has already killed four times more than the flu in:

- Less than six months
- Not during flu season
- With enforced lockdown

Jesus.
 
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