OT: Covid-19 (Part 29) Sick Again...?

[Treb]

We have to look at those million deaths with a critical eye. If you die of anything and have covid it's blamed on covid, most of those deaths can be attributed to underlying health issues. I am in that group, and not willing to have society sit it out. How many deaths can be indirectly be attributed to what we are doing? Look after those at risk, the rest of us carry on and hope for the best. Paying people to sit around in their homes is not sustainable and not fair to those that run the supply chain. How long till truckers, producers, grocers, doctors etc. say screw it, I'll sit around and collect government money as well.

Ahh, you're one of those.

 

[waffledave]

Please, people are saying it by their actions.

These people are idiots though. Your post made it sound like scientists, doctors, educated people, etc... were saying this. They of course are not.

 

[waffledave]

We have to look at those million deaths with a critical eye. If you die of anything and have covid it's blamed on covid, most of those deaths can be attributed to underlying health issues. I am in that group, and not willing to have society sit it out. How many deaths can be indirectly be attributed to what we are doing? Look after those at risk, the rest of us carry on and hope for the best. Paying people to sit around in their homes is not sustainable and not fair to those that run the supply chain. How long till truckers, producers, grocers, doctors etc. say screw it, I'll sit around and collect government money as well.

You know if you have AIDS and die of pneumonia they say you died of AIDS! Clearly AIDS is a conspiracy! Nobody actually dies of AIDS!

 

[cajmonkey]

Where are you getting this? Nobody is saying it isn't as bad as we thought outside of conspiracy theorists and denialists.

It's exactly as dangerous as they have been saying all along, maybe worse.

Not even remotely close to as bad as originally thought.

When it first started we saw videos of Chinese people dropping dead in the street.

Then came Italy's numbers.

People were terrified. Everything shut down. People were scared to leave the house. Everyone stocked up on essentials. Death rate numbers being tossed around were horrifying.


Now? Parks are full of kids playing without masks, no one is scared of dropping dead in the street suddenly. The terror is gone, people are just cautious. As more people test positive but are fine, the death rate percentage drops.

It's not what was advertised at all. And if some people hadn't of messed up old age homes, the death toll would be even lower.

 

[ProMath]

When it first started we saw videos of Chinese people dropping dead in the street

People who believe those video are the same kind that don’t believe Covid is a real threat or Hoax

By « same kind » I mean people who primarily get their info on Facebook.

It was never advertised the way you make it sound.

You have people downplaying it...and people overplaying it.

It all depend where you get your info...and the quantity you take. It’s obvious that some poster here take way way to many news about it so they overplay it.

 

[waffledave]

Not even remotely close to as bad as originally thought.

When it first started we saw videos of Chinese people dropping dead in the street.

Then came Italy's numbers.

People were terrified. Everything shut down. People were scared to leave the house. Everyone stocked up on essentials. Death rate numbers being tossed around were horrifying.


Now? Parks are full of kids playing without masks, no one is scared of dropping dead in the street suddenly. The terror is gone, people are just cautious. As more people test positive but are fine, the death rate percentage drops.

It's not what was advertised at all. And if some people hadn't of messed up old age homes, the death toll would be even lower.

Like the other guy said, everything you're saying comes from youtube videos and f***ing facebook. Please, please take 10 minutes to actually properly look things up before you make judgements about anything. And the shit you see on facebook is about as real as star wars.

 

[CHwest]

These people are idiots though. Your post made it sound like scientists, doctors, educated people, etc... were saying this. They of course are not.

People are not stupid contrary to what you believe. They see that what officials are telling them is not what is happening in real life. It is not nearly as bad as you believe, but that's alright, you do what you need to do to feel safe and the rest will do what they need to do. Maybe the pendulum will swing to far in the other direction, but I will not live out my days in the basement. I have a relative that has terminal cancer, they gave her five years, she has no immune system and is very young, 21 I believe. Well her fiance tried to celebrate her first year of remission, she was very depressed and said, I refuse to live what time I have left hiding in a house. Right or wrong she chose to live her life, so far so good. I get that.

 

[CHwest]

People who believe those video are the same kind that don’t believe Covid is a real threat or Hoax

By « same kind » I mean people who primarily get their info on Facebook.

It was never advertised the way you make it sound.

You have people downplaying it...and people overplaying it.

It all depend where you get your info...and the quantity you take. It’s obvious that some poster here take way way to many news about it so they overplay it.

When the first scares came out, the Governments and news services most definitely over played what was happening, they probably had to, to get people to take it seriously. It is nowhere near the fear now that there was.

 

[cajmonkey]

Like the other guy said, everything you're saying comes from youtube videos and f***ing facebook. Please, please take 10 minutes to actually properly look things up before you make judgements about anything. And the shit you see on facebook is about as real as star wars.

I've looked things up and followed comprehensive discussions involving intelligent people.

It's not as bad as initially thought.

 

[Treb]

I've looked things up and followed comprehensive discussions involving intelligent people.

It's not as bad as initially thought.

Still the worst in the last 60 years, potentially 100 years.

 

[OnTheRun]

I've looked things up and followed comprehensive discussions involving intelligent people.

It's not as bad as initially thought.

Not sure how you can say that with a straight face when your starting point: "Chinese people dropping dead in the street" doesn't exist. If you start with a false premise you will inevitably reach the wrong conclusion.

 

[cajmonkey]

Not sure how you can say that with a straight face when your starting point: "Chinese people dropping dead in the street" doesn't exist. If you start with a false premise you will inevitably reach the wrong conclusion.

The images from Wuhan were among the first things people saw concerning covid. Then Italy's numbers.

Neil Ferguson, who is not a youtuber or facebook soccer mom, predicted 2m+ deaths in the US and 500k+ in the UK.

 

[ProMath]

The images from Wuhan were among the first things people saw concerning covid. Then Italy's numbers.

Neil Ferguson, who is not a youtuber or facebook soccer mom, predicted 2m+ deaths in the US and 500k+ in the UK.

I guess it all depend where you take your info. I never saw/hear that video at the beginning. I listen all day long to news.

Neil Ferguson is know to make dramatic report. He did the same for SRAS and mad cow disease. His report explicitly said those number could be reach in an uncontrolled environment....it is not the case...even in the US...it’s a mess but State still apply some control.

So well...

 

[Ozmodiar]

It seems some people think the virus is like a storm that is forecasted by a meteorologist. It wasn’t as bad as predicted! Then it’s gone.

They don’t consider that public health measures mitigated the spread. They don’t see what’s going on south of the border - what happens when you try to wish it away.

it also sounds like they never heard that these pandemics can have serious 2nd waves. Nor have they heard of long lasting complications associated with covid that’s being widely reported by doctors- myocarditis, lung damage, clotting, cognitive deficits, etc...

 

[LyricalLyricist]

We have to look at those million deaths with a critical eye. If you die of anything and have covid it's blamed on covid, most of those deaths can be attributed to underlying health issues. I am in that group, and not willing to have society sit it out. How many deaths can be indirectly be attributed to what we are doing? Look after those at risk, the rest of us carry on and hope for the best. Paying people to sit around in their homes is not sustainable and not fair to those that run the supply chain. How long till truckers, producers, grocers, doctors etc. say screw it, I'll sit around and collect government money as well.

The only thing we can possibly say is that for certain individuals who were already very old or very sick covid fast tracked their passing. They could've died from other causes this year or any other year coming up.

So technically speaking, for some(not all) of the population of deaths it just fast tracked what was bound to happen. I suppose it's simple as a saying but this would imply "Meh, you're grandfather would've died anyway" which isn't very nice.

Of course, this is a moot because even healthy and younger people die from this.

As for it being unsustainable, I agree 100%. It is up to the government, business leaders and smart people of the world to come up with creative measures to keep the economy and life going in a safe way. We can't shut everything down all the time but we can't jump head first either.

 

[Kriss E]

People are not stupid contrary to what you believe. They see that what officials are telling them is not what is happening in real life. It is not nearly as bad as you believe, but that's alright, you do what you need to do to feel safe and the rest will do what they need to do. Maybe the pendulum will swing to far in the other direction, but I will not live out my days in the basement. I have a relative that has terminal cancer, they gave her five years, she has no immune system and is very young, 21 I believe. Well her fiance tried to celebrate her first year of remission, she was very depressed and said, I refuse to live what time I have left hiding in a house. Right or wrong she chose to live her life, so far so good. I get that.

Well that's not exactly smart. Just because it didn't happen in your close environment doesn't mean it isn't happening elsewhere.
We know for a fact this has destroyed the elderly residences or long term care centers. It ravaged through some of the older population. Those are facts. Nobody around me got affected by it...so...I guess it's not true that it's a worldwide pandemic?

The point of taking measures the government put in place was specifically to prevent such a massive undertaking of our health facilities. They managed to contain and control the virus after 6 weeks or so.
You can't then say ''oh...guess it wasn't so bad after all!!''.....no man...they had an objective and they successfully reached it. That's what happened.

This virus is dangerous and present. There's a smart way to go about it. Suggesting things aren't as bad as initially thought is definitely not the right approach.
You want to live your days going around seeing people, go ahead mate, but don't downplay it to make it seem okay.

 

[OnTheRun]

The images from Wuhan were among the first things people saw concerning covid. Then Italy's numbers.

Neil Ferguson, who is not a youtuber or facebook soccer mom, predicted 2m+ deaths in the US and 500k+ in the UK.

Ferguson's model was a "do-nothing-worst-case-scenario model" high numbers of deaths are expected in that kind of model, and yes, he was wrong and his professional opinion wasn't the consensus at the time either.

Italy's numbers will always be a good reminder of what can happen if your healthcare system get overwhelmed. I was never believed that "the rest of the world, everyone, no exception" would become the next Italy. Add the fact that the Americas was lagging behind Europe at the time, we always had the "good" numbers from Germany or Portugal as proof that thing could be handled better.

 

[llamateizer]

We have to look at those million deaths with a critical eye. If you die of anything and have covid it's blamed on covid, most of those deaths can be attributed to underlying health issues. I am in that group, and not willing to have society sit it out. How many deaths can be indirectly be attributed to what we are doing? Look after those at risk, the rest of us carry on and hope for the best. Paying people to sit around in their homes is not sustainable and not fair to those that run the supply chain. How long till truckers, producers, grocers, doctors etc. say screw it, I'll sit around and collect government money as well.

So if someone dies in a car accident and had underlying conditions... What would be the cause of death?

Earning 2000$ gross monthly isn't going to stop doctors truckers from working. It's a temporary thing. Things should go back to normal after we go through this

What is the % of the population that have underlying conditions? Do we abandon them?


Does my wife deserves to die. She has underlying conditions. Her immunity system is null. She gets it. She is hospitalized if she's lucky.

You're asking to discriminate people for the sake of economy. I agree that there is a middle to have . And I'm fine with the current situation.

 

[LaTenderness]

Nobody suggested your wife leave the house .....

 

[cajmonkey]

Anyone with a compromised immune system should take measures to avoid contact with people.

But those of us that don't shouldn't have to lose our livelihoods and have our families suffer.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Nobody suggested your wife leave the house .....

Perhaps but I have a sick father I take care of. My company was nice enough to tell me to stay home so I don't get infected and give it to him.

Forcing things to be normal can cause issues like that where someone is forced to be at risk and it affects others as a result.

 

[cajmonkey]

Perhaps but I have a sick father I take care of. My company was nice enough to tell me to stay home so I don't get infected and give it to him.

Forcing things to be normal can cause issues like that where someone is forced to be at risk and it affects others as a result.

I think it's great they let you work from home.

I also think that a healthy person not taking care of a sick parent should be allowed to go to work.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Anyone with a compromised immune system should take measures to avoid contact with people.

But those of us that don't shouldn't have to lose our livelihoods and have our families suffer.

I think it depends on your network really.

I know people who came here to study from another country and live alone. No kids, no roommates, etc.

In a way, if they chose to take a risk they can stay home and nothing happens.

But for others who carelessly get the virus, give it to their kids, neighbors, etc... who then pass it to other kids, elders, people at risk, etc... then no, you're causing harm.

Like I said, it depends on your network. I won't assume who you're in contact with because I don't know and its none of my business. I'm just saying, it's not as simple as "well I'm not at risk of death and neither is my family so whatever". If you come into contact with others on a regular basis outside of this 'safe' circle you can indirectly hurt someone.

Personally, I haven't went to a restaurant, bar, movie, etc...I avoid it all costs. If I didn't have my father to take of, I'd probably take calculated risks so its really not me being holier than thou. Just be aware of your network and reach.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

I think it's great they let you work from home.

I also think that a healthy person not taking care of a sick parent should be allowed to go to work.

The company allows people to go to work but they respect the 50% or whatever limit that exists. I don't know why this would offend anyone, they do rotations and all that and mostly try to avoid the spread of a virus or the company would need to shut down to address it.

As I said in my last post its not just about us as individuals. If you get the virus by accident and you're at work with hundreds of people side by side at their desk...you might infect several without knowing you're even a carrier.

That's why the company respects the 6 ft rule and will not reject someone who NEEDS to come to work but if you don't need to...they tell you to work from home so someone who needs to has space to work without fear of a potential spread. It's very reasonable.

 

[durojean]

It's going to hit people soon enough. This time around is completely different. The people getting sick are not mostly old people in long-term care. It's parents, friends, siblings, coworkers.

This is entirely driven by the younger population and they will need to live with a lot of guilt for the rest of their lives. Or maybe they won't give a shit, more likely. Because they never do.

Or... if people getting it are the parents, friends, siblings, coworkers en up having a rough time but end up not dying and getting out of the covid just fine like most of the stats suggest. People will feel validated and will wonder about all the restrictions if they did not help in the end.

CHSLD got hit right and left and a lot of people died from covid and other sources anyway. If it is proven that 50 under are pretty much safe. What will the reaction be ?

Fact is, right now is soon to really know and we better be more careful than not. But there is still the chance that another kind of approach could be way better. Protect those who are in real danger, put more ressources to those and let the safe part of the population get it could do wonders.